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Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:17AMby:cac120(513 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Sep 03, 2004To our brand new thread, Part 8:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?threadID=591407Portal to the last page:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=1350&threadID=524373&forumStart=0Questions forAdriftare on Page 34:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=996&threadID=524373&forumStart=0Questions forMan of Science, Man of Faithare on Page 15:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=429&threadID=524373&forumStart=0The list of how the first season titles apply to everyone is on Page 14:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=413&threadID=524373&forumStart=0I'm sad to report that George has eaten our first 6 threads. They are all saved on some of our computers, and there's usually someone around who will search them for you if there's something you remember being discussed way back when.Message was edited by: cac120end topic message START REPLY MESSAGES DIV begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:18AMby:cac120(513 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Sep 03, 2004How about beginning by going back to our roots (not that I'm precluding a continuation of current topics)? We have the titles of the first three episodes of the second season. Any predictions on how they apply to each character?Man of Science, Man of Faith (Jack)Adrift (one of the adult raft crew: either Sawyer, Michael or Jin)Orientation (Locke)In the "questions for In Translation" thread,http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=30&threadID=519250&forumStart=0Hugalsi shared this, which might help us get started:... When I told her the street, she said that no one had noticed it before, and wasn't it cool how they were linking the hints together. I haven't been able to figure out what she meant by that yet, but she usually doesn't waste words. I'm pretty sure it's a clue to a clue, so you're probably right. She also said "no one's gotten the man of faith, man of science one yet", so I want to take a hard look at that one. I've been assuming the show was pointing us at a real philosophical point, but for her to bring it up like that while we were discussing a place, see? I thought maybe I was missing something more obvious. Something that might be in New York. It might be nothing, but that's what I'm going to look at tomorrow.I forgot, she said that man of science, man of faith doesn't just refer to Jack and Locke, but to Jack himself. She says the first epi is going to show "a man of science who suffers a loss of faith, and where that led him". But the way she brought up the term when we were talking about the building just makes me think that I'm missing something else. The show is so layered that a street can be a clue, then I don't think it's too far-fetched to think they are layering clues one on top of the other. Just a thought, but I think I'll chase it down.To which I added:New York has a lot of history connected to both Science and Faith, so you could be right about that. This might be connected to an old hint to look at Diego Rivera's Man, Controller of the Universe. It's certainly about conflicting ideas of the greater good, and the original was in Rockefeller Center.http://www.fbuch.com/controll.htmAnd ME reminded us about:http://www.managementwisdom.com/teilcharmano.htmlSomeone else posted about it a few weeks ago, after the Man of Science/Man of Faith title was revealed.Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:25AMby:mrsbuns(423 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Nov 29, 2004Oh wow, I had only heard of the title to the first eppie. As usual, these threads are a source of incredible knowledge!!Remember that Charlie is a man of faith, too. I know the episode will have more to do with Jack, but thematically the eppies do tend to overlap with more than one character. We did after all leave poor Charlie with a heroin-stuffed Virgin Mary in the finale...Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:30AMby:mrsbuns(423 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Nov 29, 2004As far as "Adrift"... I'm leaning toward Sawyer-centric. He seemed eager to go on the raft bc he didn't think they had much chance of surviving. The again, with Walt "taken" Michael is probably pretty unhinged...What do others think?Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:32AMby:dad_of_4_(2114 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Aug 05, 2005interview with Sci-Fi writer Randy Ingermanson....EBG: You've written a diverse range of books from nonfiction to science fiction. Is there a "typical" Randy Ingermanson book?RI: I write about "Life at the intersection of Faith Avenue and Science Boulevard". As a physicist and a Christian, I have a few things to say about this particular section of town. There aren't any traffic lights at the intersection, so we get lots of accidents. I'm the guy with the flashlight and broom trying to sweep up the broken glass and get people out of the burning cars.Too literal but maybe we should get out a mapsco...Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:33AMby:042078(1117 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Feb 17, 2005Don't we know that the Jack epi is about his wife? So maybe whatever happened to her caused jack to lose his faith...althought I gotta say it didn't look like he had much faith before the wedding, either.I think Adrift is going to be about Michael...but that is just a hunch. He is the one of the 3 of them that seems to have been "adrift" at some point (besides the obvious drifting on the raft...)But I could also see them doing a Sawyer epi second, to start things right and get the bad Jack taste out of our mouth...IMG alt="src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0sorry, just being snarky)Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:41AMby:blissfullylost(221 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Feb 17, 2005Orientation (Locke)WOW, I was suprised to see that the word orientation had so many meanings, and quite a few could fit with Lost.o·ri·en·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (?r-n-tshn, -n-, r-)n.1 The act of orienting or the state of being oriented.2 Location or position relative to the points of the compass.3 The construction of a church so that its longitudinal axis has an east-west direction with the main altar usually at the eastern end.4 The direction followed in the courseof a trend, movement, ordevelopment.5 A tendency of thought; a general inclination: a Marxist orientation.6 Sexual orientation.7 An adjustment or situation adaptation to a new environment , custom, or set of ideas.8 Introductory instruction concerning a new situation: orientation for incoming students.9 Psychology. Awareness of the objective world in relation to one's self.Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:52AMby:blissfullylost(221 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Feb 17, 2005Expect flashbacks centering on one of the adult raft crew: either Sawyer, Michael or Jin.Does anyone else find it strange they're not telling us exactly who it centers on? They already know who the third episode is, so why wouldn't they know who the second one was? I read on a spoiler that when they were having the DVD party, that they had just finished filming the 2nd episode, so it's already filmed, why the secrecy??Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:56AMby:mrsbuns(423 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Nov 29, 2004Expect flashbacks centering on one of the adult raft crew: either Sawyer, Michael or Jin.Does anyone else find it strange they're not telling us exactly who it centers on? They already know who the third episode is, so why wouldn't they know who the second one was? I read on a spoiler that when they were having the DVD party, that they had just finished filming the 2nd episode, so it's already filmed, why the secrecy??Maybe to increase tension over whether or not all 3 survived?Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:57AMby:mrsbuns(423 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Nov 29, 20047 An adjustment or adaptation to a new environment, situation, custom, or set of ideasProbably the most relevant in our castaways world...Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 08:58AMby:blissfullylost(221 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Feb 17, 2005Maybe to increase tension over whether or not all 3 survived?That's a good point!Back to Top ^end message begin messageRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7replyPosted: Aug26@ 10:11AMby:meredg(1964 Posts in the last 90 days)Registered: Apr 01, 2005I agree! Defintely to keep us guessing!Dad, nice quote there!(Sorry, not very talkative today....but following along)Message was edited by: meredg
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
I found a really neat website that tells you where everything is located on 23rd Street in NY. What is really interesting is it gives everything historical that has happened there too.
by: mrsbuns (423 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 29, 2004
Did anyone else notice the painted sailboat on the wall behind Susan & Michael when they were shopping for baby furniture? It looked like the raft sail & it had a red piece of material hanging from it like the tie that Sawyer affixed to the raft's sail.
I could watch each episode a hundred times and still not notice everything! I'll have to pay attention to that next time!
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Did anyone else notice the painted sailboat on the wall behind Susan & Michael when they were shopping for baby furniture? It looked like the raft sail & it had a red piece of material hanging from it like the tie that Sawyer affixed to the raft's sail.
No, didn't notice it, houdini. Btw, why is your entire post in bold? Did you mean to do that? Just wondering! Don't usually see that.
I didn't realize that a new thread had been started! I kept going to the Part 6 thread and thought I kept seeing cac's answers to A's questions and thought that was still the last post - not seeing the note about part 7 being started! That's why I haven't been here yet today!
Houdini - interesting info about NYC and the songlines thing. Not sure if I understand the relevance of the long list of songlines/street names, but the top part is interesting.
Mrs. Buns! You're back!! Yay!
Howdy bliss, dad, 04, and cac!
Now, let me review the posts again. I was in a bit of a panic to realize I overlooked that Part 7 has been started! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Orientation (Locke)
WOW, I was suprised to see that the word orientation had so many meanings, and quite a few could fit with Lost.
o·ri·en·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (?r-n-tshn, -n-, r-) n.
2 Location or position relative to the points of the compass.
4 The direction followed in the course of a trend, movement, or development.
7 An adjustment or situation adaptation to a new environment , custom, or set of ideas.
9 Psychology. Awareness of the objective world in relation to one's self.
Bliss... great info! I agree with the meanings you bolded as those most likely to apply to the episode. And like so many things on Lost, I'm sure "orientation" will have more than one meaning in the episode.
THAT is the epi where we're going to finally find out what's in the hatch, so "orientation" is probably about Locke orienting himself in the hatch (meaning #7)...
We might also meet some new people at this point, which would require some "orientation".
And if Locke's FBs are about how he ended up in a wheelchair, then adjusting to that huge life change would take orientation period.
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Hi ME! I was wondering where you were! I was about ready to send out a search party src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
adrift
adj 1: aimlessly drifting [syn: adrift(p), afloat(p), aimless, directionless, planless, rudderless, undirected] 2: afloat on the surface of a body of water; "after the storm the boats were adrift" [syn: adrift(p), drifting(a)] adv : off course; "there was a search for beauty that had somehow gone adrift"
Well, Adrift doesn't have as many meanings, but the few it does have fit! I do think this is going to be a Michael episode, since he has just lost Walt. I hope so, we sure haven't seen enough about him.
You know I read somewhere last year that Locke's past has something to do with the hatch, I can't wait to find out!
If this is a Michael flashback this would probably describe how he felt after Susan left and took Walt. We never seen what his life was like after the accident, and Susan visiting him and telling him Brian was adopting Walt.
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Jack seems to be the one adrift here to me...Doesn't seem to know where he is OR where he is going... Something is adrift when it has no anchor...BOTH Science and Faith have failed Jack he is adrift ...no anchor. Plus I think those on the raft would be too obviously adrift
by: 042078 (1117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Adrift (one of the adult raft crew: either Sawyer, Michael or Jin)
Psst...Rob...did you read this part? src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: dad_of_4_ (2114 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
RE- flat iron building....
ok - based on Houdini'd comment of the vanishing point did some digging re: perspective
in drawing on a flat surface for there to be perspective you have to set your vanishing point first...
So for example if you are drawing railroad tracks as they go away from you...
They are two parallel lines that should never meet but in the drawing the tracks would be wider closer to you and as they got further away from you they would get closer to each to finally they would touch....
..../\.... .../--\... ../----\.. ./------\.
like this, crude but can you see what I'm saying...
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Adrift (one of the adult raft crew: either Sawyer, Michael or Jin)
Psst...Rob...did you read this part? src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I did but I thought that was just a guess too. Yoi!
by: 042078 (1117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> I think this came from somewhere official...although I could be wrong about that.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
As we found with the first season, I'm sure the titles apply to everyone. They tell us some of the things they all have in common and might explain how they are connected.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
As we found with the first season, I'm sure the titles apply to everyone.
Or at least most of them. For example, I don't think "Man of science/Man of faith" applies to them all... but probably the majority of them. I think some of them have a balance of science and faith, and some of the are more science oriented, and some more faith oriented (there we have that term - oriented - "orientation").
What is interesting about Jack is, he is a man of science, but he pushes things beyond what science tells him is impossible. For example, when Charlie was "dead", or when Boone was beyond saving - both based on what he would know being a man of science. Yet he wouldn't heed to that knowledge - surpassed it. I guess you could say his faith was driving him then - faith in himself, or something... but to me it just seemed an inability to let go... and inability to be able to accept someone dying... especially under his care.
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
I did a search for man of faith/man of science and most hits were about LOST or that other seminar/tape thingy someone else already posted.
But, I also came across two things that related to alcohol. One was E. O'Neill's coverage of the Scopes trial: He walks back to his drink, gives a look of disgust to the judge and another one of amused frustration to Bryan. He shoots down his whiskey. He won't be out drunk by a man of faith. http://www.flymf.com/NewLook/v2i3-0305/ONeilScopesAnEarlyCareer.htm
The other from the 1960 Blue Book regarding the origins of Alcoholics Anonymous. Too much to quote but interesting and quotes from Jung. http://www.nccatoday.org/a-billw1.html
I'm not saying this is THE answer, but I'm one of those that wonders if medicine is the only thing father and son share.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
I see that the Name that Philospher thread is gone from the Plot board. Does anyone have a list of which characters were matched to which philospher? I have a feeling this will shed some light on the Man of Science, Man of Faith debate.
Ernst Heinrich Philipp August Haeckel (February 16, 1834 - August 8, 1919), also written von Haeckel, was a German biologist and philosopher who popularized Charles Darwin's work in Germany. Haeckel was a physician, an accomplished artist and illustrator, and later a professor of comparative anatomy. He was one of the first to consider psychology as a branch of physiology. He also proposed many now ubiquitous terms including "phylum" and "ecology." His chief interests lay in evolution and life development processes in general, including development of nonrandom form, which culminated in the beautifully illustrated Kunstformen der Natur (Art forms of nature).
Haeckel's supposed observations on the link between ontogeny (development of form) and phylogeny (evolutionary descent) have been named the "recapitulation theory", summed up in the phrase, "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny". Haeckel's efforts to prove this hypothesis using fraudulent embryo drawings were inaccurate as there is no highly conserved embryonic stage in the invertebrates.
Haeckel was also known for his "biogenic theory", in which he suggested that the development of races paralleled the development of individuals. He advocated the idea that "primitive" races were in their infancies and needed the "supervision" and "protection" of more "mature" societies. He extrapolated a new religion or philosophy called Monism from evolutionary science. In Monism, all economics, politics, and ethics are reduced to "applied biology." His writings and lectures on Monism provided scientific (or quasi-scientific) justifications for racism, nationalism and social darwinism. Monism thus became the de facto religion of Nazi Germany.
Haeckel was a flamboyant figure whose popularity with the public was substantially greater than it was with his scientific peers. He sometimes took great (and non-scientific) leaps from available evidence. For example, at the time that Darwin first published On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, no remains of human ancestors had yet been found. Haeckel postulated that evidence of human evolution would be found in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), and described these theoretical remains in great detail. He even named the as-of-yet unfound species, Pithecanthropus alalus, and charged his students to go find it.
Remarkably, one of them did so ? a young Dutchman named Eugene Dubois went to the East Indies and dug up the remains of Java Man, the first human ancestral remains ever found. (These remains originally carried Haeckel's Pithecanthropus label, though they were later reclassified as Homo erectus.)
Although Haeckel's ideas are important to the history of evolutionary theory, and he was a competent invertebrate anatomist most famous for his work on radiolaria, most of the speculative concepts that he championed are now seen as incorrect. For example, Haeckel described and named hypothetical ancestral micro-organisms that have not been found as of date. His concept of recapitulation called "strong recapituation" has been disputed. Haeckel did not support Darwin's "survival of the fittest", rather believing in a Lamarckian inheritance of acquired characteristics.
Mount Haeckel is a 4090 m (13,418') summit in the Eastern Sierra Nevada, overlooking the Evolution Basin, named in honor of Ernst Haeckel. So is the asteroid 12323 H?ckel.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
most hits were about LOST or that other seminar/tape thingy someone else already posted.
LostinBlue, here's info about Tielhard Chardin, the person that "tape thingy" ("Man of Science, Man of Faith") is about:
Reverend Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, S.J., (May 1, 1881 - April 10, 1955), a Jesuit priest trained as a palaeontologist and a philosopher, was present at the discovery of Peking Man. Teilhard de Chardin popularized such ideas as the Omega Point and the Noosphere.
In setting forth this sweeping account of the unfolding of the material cosmos, he abandoned the literal interpretation of the two different accounts of creation in the Book of Genesis, in favor of a metaphorical interpretation. But he seemed to certain officials in the Roman Catholic Curia to have thereby undermined the doctrine of original sin that St. Paul and St. Augustine had developed from their understanding of the story of the Fall, and for this reason Teilhard's account became controversial with certain church officials.
Early years Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was born in Orcines, close to Clermont-Ferrand, in France. He was the fourth child of a large family. His father, an amateur naturalist, collected stones, insects and plants, and promoted the observation of nature in the household. Teilhard's spirituality was awakened by his mother. When he was 11, he went to the Jesuit college of Mongré, in Villefranche-sur-Sa?ne, until completing baccalaureates of philosophy and mathematics. Then, in 1899, he entered the Jesuit novitiate at Aix-en-Provence beginning a philosophical, theological and spiritual career.
As of the summer 1901, the Waldeck-Rousseau laws, which submitted congregational associations' properties to state control, forced the Jesuits into exile. Then, they opened their houses in the United Kingdom. The young Jesuit students had to continue their studies in Jersey. In the meantime, Teilhard earned a licentiate of literature in Caen in 1902.
Jesuit training From 1905 to 1908, he taught physics and chemistry in Cairo, Egypt, at the Jesuit College of the Holy Family. He wrote "...it is the dazzling of the East foreseen and drunk greedily"... in its lights, its vegetation, its fauna and its deserts." (Letters from Egypt (1905-1908) ? Editions Aubier)
Teilhard studied theology in Hastings, in Sussex (United Kingdom), from 1908 to 1912. There, he made the synthesis of his scientific, philosophical and theological knowledge in the light of Evolution. The reading of l'Evolution Créatrice (the creative Evolution) of Henri Bergson was, he said, the "...catalyst of a fire which devoured already its heart and its spirit." His views on evolution and religion particularly inspired the evolutionary biologist Theodosius Dobzhansky, who wrote the essay Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution. Teilhard was ordained a priest on August 24, 1911, aged 30.
by: houdinii13 (210 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 30, 2005
No, didn't notice it, houdini. Btw, why is your entire post in bold? Did you mean to do that? Just wondering! Don't usually see that.
I didn't realize that a new thread had been started! I kept going to the Part 6 thread and thought I kept seeing cac's answers to A's questions and thought that was still the last post - not seeing the note about part 7 being started! That's why I haven't been here yet today!
Houdini - interesting info about NYC and the songlines thing. Not sure if I understand the relevance of the long list of songlines/street names, but the top part is interesting.
Mrs. Buns! You're back!! Yay!
Howdy bliss, dad, 04, and cac!
Now, let me review the posts again. I was in a bit of a panic to realize I overlooked that Part 7 has been started! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0>
I am here for entertainment & insight on the program LOST. I thought it would be fun to hear others & their ideas. I did not come here to be critiqued on my spelling, the way I post or my thoughts. I am only a human being & I am not perfect in anyway. If my posts are not to anyone's liking they can choose to ignore me....I took what I found in information & posted it...I did not want to leave out any information. The fun has been taken out of this now... (oh did I spell this word right...oh did I put something in that doesn't pertain?) Get my drift? I do not see anyone else being reprimanded because they have bolded their posts and YES I meant to do it. Is your profession education or just making people feel like crap? Thank You very much & have a Blessed Day!
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
I see that the Name that Philospher thread is gone from the Plot board. Does anyone have a list of which characters were matched to which philospher? I have a feeling this will shed some light on the Man of Science, Man of Faith debate.
cac--Courtesy of NoNicksinExile, the updated Philosopher's thread is here--
Boone Thomas Carlyle Writer of On Heroes and Hero Worship which spoke about the importance of having Heroes in the world. He was also opposed to the rationalist idea of analytical reasoning when it came to social situations... Which is why Boone was always so emotional.
CharliePlato Plato's philosophies seem relevant to Charlie. Comments made about Plato's Republic: "Wrongful killing is always wrong but is killing always wrong?" and that a child is sometimes better off being raised by the community rather then the parents...Plato's allegory of The Cave also seems especially relevant with the episode The Moth Where Charlie literally climbs out of a cave to see the truth. (Thanks to Me, jthomas529, and Dad_of_4 for this one!!!)
Christian Sheppherd Nietzsche Big believer in fate and inability to change it.
Dannielle Rousseau Jean Jacques Rousseau The Noble Savage Taught that society was a fictional concept created by men in order to overcome a larger danger. Men would instinctively want to separate again once it was no longer needed.
Dr Arzt Message Board Trolls Though not technically a "philosopher" Arzt wasn't technically a "main character" either... This is an amalgamation of all the whiney grumps who complain for no real reason... (I was also politely corected that it was more of a mob rule sort of thing...) (Thanks to... A greAt person!!!!)
Hurley Kierkegaard Subjective truth philosophy. Whether or not something is really true matters less then if you believe it to be. If you believe it to be it is. Think Hurley and the cursed numbers...(Once again thanks to jthomas529 with apparently help from captainaeon!!!!)
Jack Kant Kant spoke of the idea that ones background does not absolve you from acting morally. Also believed that though we sometimes might not perceive the true nature of things we must account for the truth anyway and act upon a situation as such. (Thanks to thane_code for this one)
JinConfucious Confucious's basic principle was respect of your elders, respect of your husband, respect of your fellow man. An early version of the Golden Rule: What one does not wish for oneself, one ought not to do to any one else; what one recognizes as desirable for oneself, one ought to be willing to grant to others.(Confucius and Confucianism, Richard Wilhelm) (Thanks to Dad_of_4 for this one!!!)
KAteVoltAire Voltaire is popularly known for his work; Candide thought that human nature was neither inherently good nor bad but somewhere in the middle. He thought that every man should "cultivate his own personal garden" and surround themselves with people that are good for them. Voltaire's life is also very reminiscent of Kate's life. (Thanks to everyone for this one!!! Thanks to obliqueview for a great summary of Voltaire!)
Locke John Locke Specifically his An Essay Concerning Human Understanding and possibly his Second Treatise of Government.(At least where island politics is concerned...)
Sawyer Socrates Socrates was considered by many to be a sophist. Socrates also, drank poison because though he considered the punishment wrong that was the letter of the law. IE Sawyers: "Let's do this." in the torture scene.
Shannon Machiavelli Specifically The Prince, basically the ends justify the means. It's a system of morality that does not match the traditional "Christian" morality.
SunSun Dawu Seeks to serve mankind through the application of pragmatic philosophy. He intends to improve the social system through educational training, health care, and job creation. (Thanks to mrbradly11 for this one!)
Vincent Thomas Hobbes A friend and somewhat of a role model to Locke. Theorized the world was perceived by the motion of objects around us. Believed that a social hierarchy was mandatory. Think dogs' inherent pack mentality instinct. (Again thanks to jthomas529 for helping think this one out)
The Island Sartre Sartre's philosophy was prominentlyexistential. Humans must make their own reason for existence. We must make our own purpose. He also placed a lot of stock in identity being what others thought of you. Hell Is Other people. This seems pertinent to the entire story as a whole. (Thanks to jthomas529 though I claim partial!!! hehe)
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
I am here for entertainment & insight on the program LOST. I thought it would be fun to hear others & their ideas. I did not come here to be critiqued on my spelling, the way I post or my thoughts. I am only a human being & I am not perfect in anyway. If my posts are not to anyone's liking they can choose to ignore me....I took what I found in information & posted it...I did not want to leave out any information. The fun has been taken out of this now... (oh did I spell this word right...oh did I put something in that doesn't pertain?) Get my drift? I do not see anyone else being reprimanded because they have bolded their posts and YES I meant to do it. Is your profession education or just making people feel like crap? Thank You very much & have a Blessed Day!
Houdini,
My initial reaction is to apologize, as it seems I have offended you... and I definitely never want to offended anyone. But please believe me when I tell you that I meant NO offense by my post! I asked a question about your post being all bolded because I was sincerely interested - I learn from most of the posters here... and asking questions is part of that. By the way, WHO corrected your spelling? I know I never did! I'm not the best speller myself, so I would never correct anyone else's spelling!
And I never, EVER "reprimanded" you or anyone else for ANYTHING... especially not for posting in bold. I only asked if that was intentional or not - cross my heart and hope to die on the spot, but I meant absolutely NOTHING unkind by that question. I was asking a simple question because I was INTERESTED. Most posters, including myself, usually only bold certain passages or words so they stand out more, but that doesn't mean YOU have to do the same. I was curious as to your strategy... if it was a strategy. I just don't know why you got so offended by me asking.
If anyone else can point out to me how i "reprimanded" anyone, please, please let me know - because I'm always trying to be a better person, and if I'm reprimanding anyone without realizing it, then I really do want to know. On the other hand, sometimes I do offer suggestions to people, to be helpful, but I always try to do so in a kind way. Unfortunately I can't control how other people interpret the "tone" of mine or anyone else's posts.
Wow - this really blindsighted me. I'm sorry you perceived my posts in such a negative way. I have enjoyed your posts, but clearly you are not reading mine from a very positive perspective. Your final INTENTIONAL insult about my "profession" was completely uncalled for. I come here for entertainiment and insight on Lost too... and I have responded in positive way to a number of your posts... so I just don't understand why you'd suddenly lash out at me. I really didn't deserve that.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
I think the title of S2 E1, "Man of Science, Man of Faith" is direclty connected to the following dialogue between Jack and Locke, from Exodus II (especially notice what I put in bold):
[Jack and Locke walking along.]
Locke: We shouldn't be this close to each other, Jack.
Jack: If we blow up, we blow up. What the hell was all that about back there, John?
Locke: What was what about?
Jack: You asked me to let you go.
Locke: That's right.
Jack: That thing was taking you down the hole and you asked me to let you go.
Locke: It wasn't going to hurt me.
Jack: No, John, it was going to kill you.
Locke: I seriously doubt that.
Jack: Look, I need for you - I need for you to explain to me what the hell's going on inside your head, John. I need to know why you believe that that thing wasn't going to. . .
Locke: I believe that I was being tested.
Jack: Tested?
Locke: Yeah, tested.
Jack: I think. . .
Locke: That's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack - because you're a man of science.
Jack: Yeah, and what does that make you?
Locke: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident - that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence - especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.
Jack: Brought here? And who brought us here, John?
Locke: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny.
Jack: Did you talk with Boone about destiny, John?
Locke: Boone was a sacrifice that island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here - that led us down a path, that led you and me to this day, to right now.
Jack: And where does that path end, John?
Locke: The path ends at the hatch. The hatch, Jack - all of it - all of it happened so that we could open the hatch.
Jack: No, no, we're opening the hatch so that we can survive.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
As an aside, this dialogue was posted in another thread a few days ago for a different discussion, but in reading it, I realized that this is clear evidence that Michael did indeed DESIGN things, as he tells Walt here:
Michael: Thanks. You are going to love New York, Walt. No other city like it. You know what I really want to show you in New York are the buildings, the architecture. . .
Walt: Buildings?
Michael: Yeah, I used to say that, too, 'til I saw the Flat Iron Building.
Walt: What's that?
Michael: Oldest skyscraper in the city, built in 1902. It's flat. That one building inspired me to start drawing and, you know, designing things.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Jack Kant Kant spoke of the idea that ones background does not absolve you from acting morally. Also believed that though we sometimes might not perceive the true nature of things we must account for the truth anyway and act upon a situation as such. (Thanks to thane_code for this one)
Locke John Locke Specifically his An Essay Concerning Human Understanding and possibly his Second Treatise of Government.(At least where island politics is concerned...)
The Island Sartre Sartre's philosophy was prominentlyexistential. Humans must make their own reason for existence. We must make our own purpose. He also placed a lot of stock in identity being what others thought of you. Hell Is Other people. This seems pertinent to the entire story as a whole.
Thanks Nicks and Capt.
I don't have time to look this up today, so if someone else would like to, please do.
I think that Kant's view on Faith and Science was that followers of Science, such as himself and Jack, must reject Faith on the whole. Jack believes that you must be one or the other and he has little respect for the other. There's no middle ground. Something in his past made him think this way, as I believe he started out as a man of Faith. I think everything changed when his wife died.
Island Locke, however, is a man of Faith, who thinks that eventually everyone will find 'God' and come around to his way of thinking. I'm not sure whether that ties in with Philosopher Locke's ideas.
This is extremely simplistic and I'm not even sure if I'm correct -- I did only a few minutes of googling last night. Anyway, this is something that needs to be looked into in more depth. If no one's done it by tomorrow, I'll probably get around to it then.
by: ordinary_bloke (82 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
.Island Locke, however, is a man of Faith, who thinks that eventually everyone will find 'God' and come around to his way of thinking. I'm not sure whether that ties in with Philosopher Locke's ideas.
He has to believe strongly in something to be driven like that, but it doesn't seem to me that it is a god. He seems to define faith more as "strong conviction" rather than as organized religion. He took an analytical approach to help Charlie with his addiction, I'd say. He didn't ask for any kind of divine help. He doesn't believe in fate - his slogan is "don't tell me what I can't do!" (and he has that big ole box of knives with finger rings). Even though he talks about the "Island" doing this and that, I don't think he believes it is supernatural (please, please, abc) but is just talking about real people and processes on the island in a general way.
But if you rule out science, religion, fate, and supernatural, what's left? He was asked once what he thought was in the hatch and he answered "Hope!". It doesn't seem like he sees the hatch as a hope for hiding or escaping. Maybe he puts his faith in some huge concept down there to improve the world for the greater good (at least in his mind, corny as that sounds). It seems like many people don't make a sharp distinction between science and religion like that though. They just carry around a weird scramble of both with all kinds of conflicts.
by: 042078 (1117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Page 5?
I thought the "hope" answer had two (probably more) meanings...the one you just said...and it was a reference to Pandora's Box.
Me-I didn't see how you deserved that post...for what it is worth. You never know what sort of day Houdini had...or what lenses he/she is viewing life through. Not defending him...just saying don't worry about it, I think it is his/her problem, not yours. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: no__clue (15 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 12, 2005
Me- I kind of have to agree with houdinii-I have been reading these boards since day one and often there is a tone to your posts which make people feel you have a somewhat superior attitude-I am sure it is completely innocent and you do not even realize but of everyone that has ever posted to these boards, your posts are the only ones that leave me with these feelings when I read them and they have never even been directed toward me. Maybe I should just be quiet. Oh well we all have opinions don't we.
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
ME--Just for the record, I have NEVER seen you take a superior attitude with anyone. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
ME--Just for the record, I have NEVER seen you take a superior attitude with anyone.
I agree,
ME you have always made everyone feel welcome to post in this thread, and are always considerate of their thoughts, and you try to comment on everyone's post, whether you agree with them or not.
by: no__clue (15 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 12, 2005
Sometimes people should really think before they post. I obviously did not. I did not say that Me has a superior attitude but meant that her posts(when not being able to hear tone of mind or voice leave me feeling that way. I will not give any specifics-what would be the point - it's only my interpretation of how it sounds to me when my brain processes some of the posts. Me is one of the most valuable resources of information on these boards and I was stupid for having expressed an opinion on the subject. I apologize.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Sometimes people should really think before they post. I obviously did not. I did not say that Me has a superior attitude but meant that her posts(when not being able to hear tone of mind or voice leave me feeling that way. I will not give any specifics-what would be the point - it's only my interpretation of how it sounds to me when my brain processes some of the posts. Me is one of the most valuable resources of information on these boards and I was stupid for having expressed an opinion on the subject. I apologize.
no_clue, you are very entitled to your opinion, and I appreciate you clarifying that you don't feel I HAVE a superior attitude... but that you are aware that your brain process my posts that way for some reason. That one statement of yours, about my posts being the only ones that makes you feel that way, did truly hurt, but I appreciate the clarication, and even the compliment, as long as it was sincere.
I'm also GRATEFUL to cap, bliss and 04 sharing that they have never felt that I take a surperior tone and that I make them feel welcome, I'm friendly, etc. I'm glad they are able to see who I am, and read my posts that way.
Now, for the respect of the other regulars of this thread, in keeping with our unwritten policy to not get too OT here - I would like to please redirect this thread back to Lost talk.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
P.S.
04: Me-I didn't see how you deserved that post...for what it is worth.
cap: ME--Just for the record, I have NEVER seen you take a superior attitude with anyone.
bliss: ME you have always made everyone feel welcome to post in this thread, and are always considerate of their thoughts, and you try to comment on everyone's post, whether you agree with them or not.
04, cap and bliss... thanks SO much. I truly appreciate your kind words! You've assured me that my compass is still pointing in the right direction... true north. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Oh, LostinBlue, thanks again for your kind compliment in the other thread the other day!
Just had to say this separately - kindness deserves special attention. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Yes, so... any more episode titles announced lately?
Haven't heard of any, but I think those first three are the only only three we're going to be given for a while.
Did you read my post with the dialogue between Locke and Jack during Exodus III... where Locke talks about Jack being a man of science, and Locke calling himself a man of faith? I thought that was interesting... has to be a direct connection to S2 E1, don't you think?
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
ME, no need for thanks, I was just being truthful. This thread was the first place I felt welcomed, and it's mostly due to you. Now back to Lost src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Did you read my post with the dialogue between Locke and Jack during Exodus III... where Locke talks about Jack being a man of science, and Locke calling himself a man of faith? I thought that was interesting... has to be a direct connection to S2 E1, don't you think?
Yes I did find it very interesting! I read somewhere though that that title refers to Jack alone? Like he had faith but lost it? I would assume it had to do with losing his wife and child?
by: meredg (1964 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 01, 2005
PAGE 3?!?!?!?! Oh that just won't do!
houdini--I hope you will continue to post, whether on this thread or elsewhere. You have some great ideas, and we can always use more of that! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
ME--I admire and appreciate how you have handled the comments posted. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: meredg (1964 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 01, 2005
Does anyone over here remember any discussion on question#2 of A's for DEM? "Bendix, Selma, Alma, Ocean. Yes it was. Look again. " ELMirage posted that these referred to addresses of Emily's doctors, but that is as far as we got.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Does anyone over here remember any discussion on question#2 of A's for DEM? "Bendix, Selma, Alma, Ocean. Yes it was. Look again. " ELMirage posted that these referred to addresses of Emily's doctors, but that is as far as we got.
mere, yes... I do remember that! After those questions were posted, anni_padanni did a lot of research on it and found info. linking all those names to aviation, one way or another. Two were related to female aviation, I believe. I'm sure anni still has the info, if she reads this or is able to get back - she's had a busy summer, but I'm sure will be back soon.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Yes I did find it very interesting! I read somewhere though that that title refers to Jack alone? Like he had faith but lost it? I would assume it had to do with losing his wife and child?
Did you watch the season 2 promo with the hatch?
Bliss, I read that too - that A. said that the title refers to Jack alone - so I hear what you're saying. However, that dialogue I posted... Locke talking about Jack being a man of science and himself a man of faith - it just seems like it HAS to be connected to S2 E1 - it can't be a coinsidence. The title name itself it in that very dialogue... and that scene between Jack and Locke is featured both as a video clip, and again as an audio clip, on the Oceanicflight815 site.
Maybe she meant that the episode is just about Jack - if some people were thinking the epi. would be about Jack and Locke both because of the title. And/or, maybe it's because the scene ends with Jack saying he doesn't believe in destiny, and Locke saying "You do, you just don't know it yet." So, will Jack realize he has faith after all, but faith in what? Science? Mankind? Himself? Kate? God? And is believing in destiny the same as having faith? I don't seem them as the same.
I guess this is why it might prompt discussion. It just feel that scene is linked to S2 E1, even if it's supposed to be about Jack. Maybe the scene is directly connected to S2 E1, and it IS still about just Jack. So much to think about!
By the way, guys... thanks for coming to talk Lost!
Oh, and yes.. I DID watch the season 2 promo of the hatch. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: meredg (1964 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 01, 2005
Thanks ME. I sure hope anni sees this and can post a link to that convo on here.
That dialogue between Jack and Locke is one of my favorites. Do you think Jack once was a man of faith, or could be becoming a man of faith? That is what the title makes me think.
by: kagergone (691 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 23, 2005
Thanks ME. I sure hope anni sees this and can post a link to that convo on here.
That dialogue between Jack and Locke is one of my favorites. Do you think Jack once was a man of faith, or could be becoming a man of faith? That is what the title makes me think.
No way Jack is becoming a man of faith--he is firmly rooted in all things science. He's not willing to open himself up to that kind of "surrender". (as in to a higher power or purpose). He, like most doctors (I have had TONS of experience with them), believes in himself and in his abilities--who needs faith when you have yourself?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
I also put this in another thread .
Bendix,selma, alma, ocean were the addresses of Emily Lockes doctors when she was committed.
this is from the transcripts:
DR. D. MADISON // ADDRESS: 1258 BENDIX AVE. // PHONE: 213 555-0133 DR. C. SILVA // ADDRESS: 578 SELMA AVE. // PHONE: 213 555-0135 DR. R. MUNOE // ADDRESS: 50 S. ALMA AVE. // PHONE: 323 555-0144 BEA JONES/AUNT // ADDRESS: 15347 OCEAN AVE. // PHONE (HM): 555-0121 // PHONE (WK): 555-0170
But what does it mean? EL
EL, as i mentioned earlier, anni_padanni found them all linked to aviation. It seems to me there was some more Ada added about that question that made me feel anni was right on the money, but I can't quite remember what it was.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
No way Jack is becoming a man of faith--he is firmly rooted in all things science. He's not willing to open himself up to that kind of "surrender". (as in to a higher power or purpose). He, like most doctors (I have had TONS of experience with them), believes in himself and in his abilities--who needs faith when you have yourself?
Just my thoughts--no harm meant.
kagergone, everyone is welcome to disagree with ideas here - we all do that here every once in a while, but always try to do so respectfully. No one has to agree with every idea, and we don't want people to think they can't post an idea here unless everyone agrees with their post. At the same time here, anyone who easily gets bent out of shape if someone doesn't agree with their idea, then this probably isn't the thread for them. As I said, we always try to express either our agreement, or disagreement, respectfully - so no one usually has a problem with it. Most posters here know how to disagree constructively, and we are honest here. We're here to talk Lost - no tip toeing! But... I want to make it clear - we have made quite an effort to not have any harshness or fighting here. I'm saying this only so that the meaning of my post isn't misunderstood.
My point being, I don't think anyone would think you'd mean any harm by disagreeing!
I still think that scene between Jack and Locke is directly related to the Man of Science/Man of Faith title. I'm not saying that Jack is becoming a man of faith - I'm just saying, that scene is connected.
One thing you might think about though is - Jack DOES have faith - he has faith in science. He believes science has all the answers, and science will save them. Isn't that somewhat like a religion itself then?
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
I thought the "hope" answer had two (probably more) meanings...the one you just said...and it was a reference to Pandora's Box.
I've seen the hatch/Pandora's box reference before, but only recently did the fact that Locke worked at a box factory slap me in the head.
[On a similar note: On the EXPLORE section of the OF815 sight, there is a puzzle invloving a boxes. You must choose the plans that fold into a box. There is a certificate (either of ownership or of invention) with the name Hugo Reyes.]
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
O4 Bendix is big over here too. For years and years brake pads were made out of Asbestos! Whoa! An enviromental Hazard connectted to the manufactering of cars?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
O4 Bendix is big over here too. For years and years brake pads were made out of Asbestos! Whoa! An enviromental Hazard connectted to the manufactering of cars?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
The Bendix Corporation
The Bendix Corporation was founded in 1924 by the inventor Vincent Bendix. At first it manufactured brake systems for cars and trucks. It supplied General Motors with braking systems for its production lines for several decades. In 1929 Vincent Bendix branched out in aeronautics and renamed the company "Bendix Aviation" to reflect the new product lines. Bendix supplied aircraft manufacturers with all manners of hydraulic systems, for braking, and flap activation and introduced new devices such as a pressure carburetor which dominated the market before World War II. It also made a wide variety of electrical and electronic instruments for aircraft. Bendix sponsored the famous Bendix continental air race which started in 1931, and is known for the Bendix Trophy. It was a transcontinental US point to point race meant to encourage the development of durable, efficient aircraft for commercial aviation, but civilians were barred from the race in 1950. The last race occurred in 1962.
During World War II Bendix made just about every ancillary instrument or equipment for military aircraft. The Bendix radio division was born in 1937, to make two way radio sets for aircraft and other types of aviation electronics or avionics. During the war about three quarters of all aviation electronics in US planes had the Bendix name on it.
Bendix started making domestic radios and phonographs for the retail market after the war, as an outgrowth of its production of two way radios for aircraft . Bendix also built Television sets from 1950 to 1959.
Production of radios for the retail trade stopped in the mid fifties, but in 1948 Bendix started to sell car radios directly to Ford and other builders. This market rapidly grew during the 50s, but shrank just as fast in the 60s when Ford, GM and Chrysler started producing their own radios.
During and after the war Bendix made radars of all kinds. During the 60s it made ground and airborne telecommunications systems for NASA. It also developed the first Fuel injection systems in the US.
In the 1956 the Bendix computer division, Los Angeles, of Bendix aviation introduced the Bendix G-15, a mini computer which was the size of two high filing cabinets, or a very deep refrigerator. They sold about 400 at a starting price of less than $50,000 US. The Bendix computer division was taken over by Control Data Corporation in 1963, and the G-15 went on being produced by them for a few years. The chief designer of the G-15 was Harry Huskey, who had worked with Alan Turing on the ACE in the United Kingdom and on the SWAC in the 50s. He made most of the design while working as a professor at Berkeley, and other universities, and moonlighting as a consultant.
In the 70s, 80s and 90s Bendix went through a series of mergers, sales and changes with partners or buyers like Raytheon, Allied Signal and others. This diluted its corporate identity, though for some years these companies would use the Bendix brand for some of their products, such as Aircraft flight control systems.
Honeywell now has a brand line of Bendix/king avionics, including completely digital integrated glass cockpits. Its commercial vehicles division also has a Bendix line of electronics and other vacuum or hydraulic subsystems. Apart from this brand name use Bendix has disappeared completely as a distinct corporation.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendix_Corporation"
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Honeywell now has a brand line of Bendix/king avionics, including completely digital integrated glass cockpits.
Cool Kinda like The Hatch? Thanks ME interesting stuff.
Thanks, Rob! And yes, very true - kinda like the hatch!
Sure do wish anni was here - she did a lot of digging and found some great stuff tying all four names to aviation, and she laid it out so well.
Why do they have to delete posts after 90 days anyway? No fair!
btw, picked up a TV Guide today and watched the DVD after I got out of work. VERY cool - well worth the $2.99, or whatever the price was, even if it's all going to be on the DVD anyway. I especially loved the photos from the set... especially photo of Terry playing guitar wearing sunglasses, photo of Dom and Evey in the rain, and photo of Foxy and Jorge head-to-head. Lots of great stuff there.
by: lostfinds (2 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 28, 2005
Didn't notice the sailboat painting in that ep--can't wait for the DVD! DID notice, however, the nautical-themed bar where Sawyer and Jack's father knock back a few, with the ship's wheel--interesting, also, that Jin takes to the sea with his father to get some guidance/answers for his life.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Here are Anni's posts:
annipadanni Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 3 Posted: Mar 30, 2005 10:18 PM
2-Bendix, Selma, Alma, Ocean. Yes it was. Look again.
The Bendix/King family of avionics include communication and navigation avionics, flight information services, flight controls, weather radar, Integrated Hazard Avoidance Systems and multi-function displays for the general aviation, experimental and light business aviation communities. Our mission is to make flying safer...
In 1929 the company turned to aviation products and changed its name to Bendix Aviation Corporation (not reverting to the name Bendix Corporation until 1960).
In autumn 1942, after extensive efforts of personal persuasion directed at President Franklin Roosevelt and his wife Eleanor, General Hap Arnold of the Army Air Corps, and anyone else who would listen, Jacqueline Cochran-whose name is familiar to anyone involved in aviation-established a training facility for women pilots. These women would take over stateside flying duties so that male aviators could be released for active duty overseas.
Cochran chose Avenger Field in Sweetwater, Texas as a training site-isolated, arid, snake-ridden, it was known as Cochran's Convent. But a banner over the entryway to the base said it all: "Through These Portals Pass the World's Finest Women Pilots." Alma Jeschien was among them.
Alma, at 78, looked back on 57 years of flying, among them the honor of being one of the original Women Airforce Service Pilots WWII (WASP).
In 1943 Selma Cronan was invited by Jacqueline Cochran, the legendary female aviation pioneer, to join the WASPs. The WASPs (Women's Airforce Service Pilots) were the first female aviators to fly for the United States.
Ocean Air (1562E Parkway Loop, Tustin, CA 92780) is a leading supplier of commercial aircraft products for the aviation aftermarket. We specialize in airborne communication, navigation, and instrumentation systems for a wide range of aircraft types
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 3 Posted: Apr 04, 2005 08:10 AM By: annipadanni ( 256 Posts ) Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AM
Need wrote:2-Bendix, Selma, Alma, Ocean. Yes it was. Look again. BSAO? Anyone figure this out?
and Ada wrote:
2-Bendix, Selma, Alma, Ocean. Yes it was. Look again. BSAO? Anyone figure this out?
They all are in a single field.
need, yes. i did figure this one out the night lady A posted the clue. here is what i found:
all 4 of these were listed as the street addresses of locke's 'mom' at different times.
bendix and ocean are aviation navigation equipment companies. NOTE: Ocean is located in Tustin, CA. Selma and Alma are names of 2 of the first women WASP's in WWII.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Here are Anni's posts:
Thanks SO much, cac! I knew if anni was away, you'd most likely come through with her post, and you did! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Anni put so much time and thought into it, I hated to note have it shared again, with the epi. coming up, and renewed interest in the topic.
And thanks Minxikitten for bringing that info here - for A's clues! That was very thoughtful of you - and greatly appreciated! If you are in touch with A, please let her know Meandthesea, cac, and everyone from the Epi. Title's thread says hello, and we miss her!
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
Minxikitten - Awesome! Thanks so much!
I've been looking at Danielle's stories because it was suggested she has lied. I started putting up dialogue to establish a timeline (which I still haven't finished). There are some questions with the times she has given. Here is the link if anyone wants to check it out (or add anything):
by: meredg (1964 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 01, 2005
Kager, I'm not that sensitive! LOL! After all, I was asking for opinions and thoughts! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> I see what you are saying. Do you think he once was a man of faith before?
But I do think his science foundation is on shaky ground. This island seems to be filled with things that his science can't explain.
And lets see: box factory, Hurley, Pandora's box, Bendix, brake pads, car crashes, WWII (!!!) and aviation.....
Oh my goodness, I can't keep up! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/shocked.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
"She says you ARE on the right track. Something happened that drew the ship toward the island, an island that is almost impossible to find.
Once there, it took the team of scientists weeks to locate (she says just let that one sink in for a minute. This is right up a scientists alley, and it took them weeks to locate it) the source of the signal.
And, she tells you something else. A says listen to what Danielle tells you they were doing after they located it, and while they were on the island. She says no one brought up the comment on the first showing, see if you can spot the significant words. What did they do after locating the signal while on the island?
She says that if you pay very close attention, you are going to hear something that you have heard many times in other eppies. It's a number. She says it's a HUGE clue. You will hear it again, and again, and again. She says that they camoflauged it so well in the original broadcasts, that she hasn't seen anyone get it yet (this is NUMBERS she's talking about, but the clue is repeated in DEM as well). She says watch for the pattern, because it will be very important to you. She says tell me if you need a bigger clue to it, but you should see a pattern.
And she says to have fun. I'll check back later to see if you need anything more from her."
Welcome to the board, Minx, and thank you for bringing us the clues about Danielle.
I noticed another from Hugalsi in the Adamant about Nanodiamonds and Buckyballs thread that I'll copy here as it seems to be related to this and other topics we've discussed here:
"Hey Thunder! I am thrilled to hear that you are bringing up such wonderful topics and articles! Of course you would be the one to bring up such great information!
The island has been altered, there's no debating that, but as you point out with this information, there had to be a reason. Something that made this place of interest to whomever it was that altered it. And on this altered island, something is messing with the compasses. Thunder, there is a clue to this in Danielle's scenes from season 1. See if you can spot it!
The crater from Danielle's maps will be making an important appearance this season (first half), and you will especially want to watch, Thunder, because it has long-term clues in it about what causes the problems, if they are controllable, and what they mean.
What a great find, Thunder! And thanks for shaing it!
If you take the individual numbers said by each person and put them together, Sayid says 1640 and Danielle says 1632.
1640 was the year the first coffee house was built in Europe. Did you know that coffee is the second largest traded commodity after oil?
1632 was the year that Galileo said that the Earth revolves around the sun. 1632 was the year that John Locke was born. 1632 could have been a year when the Black Rock was sailing. 1632 is the name of a novel about the inhabitants of an American town being transported back to 1632 Germany in an alternate universe.
Here's how it begins:
The mystery would never be solved. It would simply join others, like the Tunguska event or the Square Crater on Callisto, in the catalogue of unexplained occurrences. The initial worldwide excitement waned within a few months, as it became clear that no quick answers would be found. For a few years grieving relatives would, with some success, press officialdom to maintain the studies and inquiries. But there were no lawyers to keep the fires stoked. The courts ruled soon enough that the Grantville Disaster was an Act of God, for which insurance companies were not liable. Within ten years, the Disaster had devolved into another domain of fanatics and enthusiasts, like the Kennedy Assassination. Thereafter, of course, it enjoyed a near-eternal half-life. But few if any reputable scientists in the world held out any hope for a final explanation.
Theories, of course, abounded. But the vague traces on instruments were impossible to decipher clearly. A small black hole, passing through the Earth. That was one theory. Another?popular for a time until the underlying mathematics were rejected in the light of later discoveries?was that a fragmented superstring had struck the planet a glancing blow.
by: kagergone (691 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 23, 2005
I can see your point about Jack's faith in science being shaken (not stirred!-haha-I need a drink!). THat's interesting to think on, and like ME said, what happens when his faith in science is shaken or worse? Those possibilities open up a whole new can of worms! I appreciate your research and helping me to learn more--you do a great job, and others benefit from it.
ME--I think you do some of the best research on here-again, your research benefits so many others and helps us. Thank you!
Let's see if I can put some thoughts together (probably not-we'll see):
island=radioactive from WW2 experiments?--radiation draws planes, boats, etc, to it? That's why the illusions, etc.?
Bendix, aviation, brake pads=cause or contributor to plane crash? Who owns Bendix? Locke's dad, Mr. Paik, Hurley?
I can't wait for tonight--never seen either episode!
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Looking at the numbers again, I've found a couple more dates that are relevant.
Returning to 1632: - July 23 - 300 colonists for New France depart Dieppe - Antigua and Barbuda is first colonized by England - Portuguese driven out of Bengal. - Charles I of England issues charter for the colony of Maryland (named in honor of Henrietta Maria), under control of Lord Baltimore.
In the Pilot, Jack says, "Well, fear's sort of an odd thing. When I was in residency my first solo procedure was a spinal surgery on a 16 year old kid, a girl. And at the end, after 13 hours, ..."
1613 - Galileo observes Neptune, but mistakes it for a star and so is not credited with its discovery. - Adriaen Block's ship Tyger is destroyed by fire, forcing him and his crew to spend the winter on Manhattan
In Exodus I, Danielle says, "On this island sixteen years ago. There were six of us. My team -- six."
1666 - September 2 - Great Fire of London: A large fire breaks out in London in the house of Charles II's baker on Pudding Lane near London Bridge. The fire burns for three days destroying 10,000 buildings including St. Paul's Cathedral, but only 16 people are known to have died. - Sir Isaac Newton uses a prism to split sunlight into its component colours, which helped us understand the nature of light more comprehensively.
The pattern seems to be years of scientific discovery, but also with references to colonization and a few disasters.
This points us toward the island being a scientific discovery in itself, perhaps with some colonization going on. This is not exactly news to those of us who've held these theories for some time, but it certainly supports what we've been thinking.
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Wow, some great research done overnight!
That Bendix clue kind of ties in to a lot of things! A lot to think about. This what I found in looking for this clue.
And, she tells you something else. A says listen to what Danielle tells you they were doing after they located it, and while they were on the island. She says no one brought up the comment on the first showing, see if you can spot the significant words. What did they do after locating the signal while on the island?
This is when Hurley asks her if there was a radio tower on the island...
Danielle:
Yes, up by the black rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue. But then the sickness came. When my team was gone, I went back up to the tower and changed the transmission.
So instead of saying source of the numbers, she says the meaning of them? Also why were just some of them searching for the meaning, and not all six?
by: ordinary_bloke (82 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
During the 60s it made ground and airborne telecommunications systems for NASA.
I think Bendix also had a contract to make a computer system for tracking the sputnik satellite (maybe missiles too) and to set up tracking stations as part of our own attempt to launch one in the late 50's. You might be able to put together some weak clues for that. There was the mylar punched tape under Michael's drawing that they used in old computers like that. The hatch looks kind of military and might have swiveled at one time. The equations could sample luminous things in a certain direction.
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
Now, back to those numbers.
If you take the individual numbers said by each person and put them together, Sayid says 1640 and Danielle says 1632.
In Exodus I, Danielle says, "On this island sixteen years ago. There were six of us. My team -- six." 1666
In the Pilot, Jack says, "Well, fear's sort of an odd thing. When I was in residency my first solo procedure was a spinal surgery on a 16 year old kid, a girl. And at the end, after 13 hours, ..." 1613
Whoa, cac! Wow! What led you to combine the numbers like this?
by: 042078 (1117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
I think Bendix also had a contract to make a computer system for tracking the sputnik satellite (maybe missiles too) and to set up tracking stations as part of our own attempt to launch one in the late 50's. You might be able to put together some weak clues for that. There was the mylar punched tape under Michael's drawing that they used in old computers like that. The hatch looks kind of military and might have swiveled at one time. The equations could sample luminous things in a certain direction.
This set off some synapses... In researching something...(buckyballs?-god, I don't remember) the movie October Sky came up, which is about a boy who gets all jazzed about Sputnick and builds a rocket ship or something? Sorry, this post wasn't helpful in any way...I got other things on my mind this morning src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: LostDuckie7 (189 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 17, 2005
Great find on the numbers Cac!! These specific numbers really seem to be pointing towards specific events that are relevant.
In 1623 Pope Gregory XV died, and Galileo's close friend Maffeo Barberini became Pope Urban VIII. The new Pope gave Galileo vague permission to ignore the ban and write a book about his opinions, so long as he did not openly support his theory. Galileo consented, and set to work writing his masterpiece, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems (often called simply the Dialogue). It involved an argument between two intellectuals, one geocentric, the other heliocentric, and a layman, neutral but interested. Although it presented the Church's point of view, the geocentrist was depicted foolishly, while the heliocentrist often dominated the argument and convinced the neutral member in the end.
The Dialogue was published in 1632 with the approval of Catholic censors. It was applauded by intellectuals but nevertheless aroused the Church's ire. Despite his continued insistence that his work in the area was purely theoretical, despite his strict following of the church protocol for publication of works (which required prior examination by church censors and subsequent permission), and despite his former friendship with the Pope (who presided throughout the ordeal), Galileo was summoned to trial before the Roman Inquisition in 1633.
Galileo was a devout Catholic and was a "Man of faith" and a "man of science". Earlier he had expessed support for the Copenicus view in the heliocentric view that the sun was the center of our universe. He recanted this but under the impression that it would be ok to publish later he did. He spent the remainder of his life under house arrest (not imprisoned) for this. The Vatican officially apologized for this not too many years ago.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Now, back to those numbers.
If you take the individual numbers said by each person and put them together, Sayid says 1640 and Danielle says 1632.
Cac, when I first read this, after first I thought, "What does she mean, Sayid says 1640 and Danielle says 1632? I don't remember ANYONE saying those numbers on Lost! What the heck is she talking about?"
But then, duh - I quickly figured it out. At first I thought you counted the number of words they spoke - which I thought would be over the top, even for Lost, then figured out you put individual numbers together (like you said you did!).
Anyway, GREAT catch - and ideas! Wow - I would have never thought to do that! Well, I haven't had a chance to give Minxikitten's post from A. much thought, but still don't know if I would have solved that one! Congrats!
So, A. emphasises this has to do with Danielle, but I notice you're putting together numbers Jack said as well. Do you think that this pattern exists with all the Lostie's, and the numbers they spoke during the show?
bumping - maybe Parma will post the clues for Numbers here, if she wouldn't mind. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0>
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
Hey cac - you still here?
I thought of your number theory tonight during the episode. Lenny was playing "Connect Four," Which is what you did with the numbers being mentioned in conversation.
I hearby bestow the name "cac's Connect Four Number Theory" for your great thoughts. (Too wordy?)
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
LOL Blue! I've never played Connect 4 (although apparently the name is self-explanatory), so I hadn't thought of that. I suppose this confirms that it's four-digit numbers we're looking for, which certainly supports the year theory.
ME, she said to look for patterns, and you know I like doing that. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
1. Who understands Jin in the first scene?
Michael. Does this mean they have more in common than they think? Have they been working together long enough that Michael is beginning to understand him? Do they both have experience building boats?
2. What does Sayid say is mixed up with the equations?
3. What does Hurley see as he's flipping the channels?
Square dancing in cowboy outfits with a wagon - another cowboy reference. Step-aerobics - Was someone an aerobics instructor or excercised a lot or climbed a lot of steps? An avocado being cut - do avocados grow on the Lost island? Should they? A police car chase - forshadowing Hurley's arrest or Kate fleeing the law. A hockey game - anyone know which teams these are? It could be hinting at specific cities or it could be another Canadian reference, along with the shoe factory that burned down.
4. How any weeks have gone by without a Lotto winner?
16th week.
The next numbers mentioned are 3 and 52. 1635 didn't reveal anything interesting, but 1603 did.
1603 - Elizabeth I of England dies. [Her reign saw a lot of scientific advances and colonization.] - Johann Bayer's Uranometria, an atlas of the southern sky, is published. The Bayer crater on the Moon is named after him. - Accademia dei Lincei founded - it was a locus for what was then the ongoing scientific revolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1603
5 What does Sayid tell Hurley he originally thought the numbers were ?
"Coordinates of some kind."
Well, this supports a certain theory about the numbers being the addresses of the portals to the island. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
6. What was the closest thing to a vacation Grandpa Tito ever had?
3 jobs for 52 years, 70 years old. When they put a pacemaker in him 4 years ago. This places Grandpa Tito in the hospital at the same time that Locke became paralyzed. It might also be the same time that Jack's wife had the accident.
7. What happened to Father Aguilar at the funeral?
He was struck by lightening. I'm not sure why this is significant.
8. What does Ken Halprin believe in?
"I'm and accountant. I believe in numbers."
Is this a religious belief, like a belief in a higher power? Do the numbers represent God or Fate? I think that's one of their purposes.
9. What is Sawyer keeping watch for?
"Arsonists," he says as he looks directly at Walt. I think Sawyer knows too.
10. Who does Michael tell "If you tied this like I told you they would still be together."?
Jin. Michael's assuming Jin understands him as well as he understands Jin.
11. What does Lenny say Hurley opened?
"The box." Pandora's, I presume. Hurley let out the sins of the world and all that was left in the box was hope. When last we saw them all standing over the newly opened hatch, all they knew to be inside was hope.
12. How long has Sam been dead?
4 years, again.
13. What was Sam and Lenny's job?
They served together in the US Navy. ... Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. ?Til one night, about 16 years ago, there's something in the static, a voice comes through, a voice repeating those numbers over and over again. A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to the rim with beans. Fella's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how many beans are in that jar, within 10.
They worked at Pine Gap, listening to things picked up on the big, underground antenna.
14. How did Martha lose her leg?
Yep, the answer was exact. To the bean. Men had been running the same scam for 40 years and nobody had ever come close. So we won the money. On the way home a pick-up truck blows a tire on the highway, hits us head on. Lost my leg that night.
Another car accident; another amputation.
Also, Sam shot himself, just like Sawyer's Daddy.
15. What does Locke say he's good at?
"I'm good at putting bits and pieces together."
This is what we need to be better at to figure out the show.
16. Where does Charlie say they are when he and Hurley are arguing after the explosion?
"The middle of nowhere."
The middle might describe the place where the equator crosses the IDL; the middle of the world.
Nowhere isn't really a good description of the earth, however. Nowhere might indicate that they've left this world for another, emptier one.
17. What does Hurley tell Charlie they all have?
"We've all got personal stuff, Dude." They certainly do.
18. What did Danielle's team continue to search for while waiting for rescue?
"The meaning of those numbers."
Danielle has one goal: to find Alex. She must think that the meaning of the numbers will help her find her child.
19. What does Sayid find while waiting for Charlie and Hurley?
A partially burned photo of Nadia. There are a lot of useful things in there the Danielle left behind and Sayid and Jack don't bother to pick up, either.
Maybe there's a reason Danielle kept Nadia's photo. Could she have possibly recognized Nadia? Nadia worked in a lab, right? So she might also be some kind of scientist. Maybe Nadia was a student at a French university where Danielle was a professor. Since she's a bit older than Sayid, that would have been at least 20 years ago (maybe 23?), so it would have been before Danielle landed on the island. Shannon also spent some time in France.
20. How close together are Claire and the baby's birthdays?
I'm probably wrong about this, but I think the baby was born the day after Claire's birthday. Could the dates be the 15th and 16th?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
GREAT answers, cac - as usual! And fast too - whew! You are GOOD! Here are my thoughts about some of them....
cac: An avocado being cut - do avocados grow on the Lost island? Should they?
Or maybe it's more symbolic - the pit inside... cutting to the center of something... finding what's below the surface...
cac: 4. How any weeks have gone by without a Lotto winner?
16th week.
The next numbers mentioned are 3 and 52. 1635 didn't reveal anything interesting, but 1603 did.
The "Meganumber" was 42, so maybe the connect four is 1642...
cac: 5 What does Sayid tell Hurley he originally thought the numbers were ?
"Coordinates of some kind."
Well, this supports a certain theory about the numbers being the addresses of the portals to the island.
Or could just be coordintes to the location of the antennea, or where the signal is coming from, like he originally mentioned.
9. What is Sawyer keeping watch for?
"Arsonists," he says as he looks directly at Walt. I think Sawyer knows too.
I agree. This might be an indication of Sawyer having a more keen sense of intuition than most people, or something even more. Part of it (probably a big part of it) is because he is a "big picture" person, and an observer, like Locke. But I think there might be even a little more to it. Not saying psychic, necessarily, but... as i said at the beginning, a keener than normal sense of intuition - ability to really "read" people. For example, he seems to have Kate pegged, and I think on a level beyond what he knows from what he's seen on the island.
16. Where does Charlie say they are when he and Hurley are arguing after the explosion?
"The middle of nowhere."
The middle might describe the place where the equator crosses the IDL; the middle of the world.
Could be - though the intersection of equator and IDL is somewhere by definition, isn't it?
By the way, Marth Toomey described where Sam moved them to as being "the middle of nowhere" too. I think we were supposed to notice the connection. Sam moved them to the middle of nowhere to get them away from the numbers, but nothing changed... they are on the island in the middle of nowhere, and it's not changing what Hurley perceives as "luck" or "bad luck" stemming from the numbers.
by: jolynne21 (554 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 11, 2004
Hey Me...I noticed Blue said she wanted to get something to A for comment. A few posts up. What does she want to show her. I can copy it and see if she has a response if you want.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Hey Me...I noticed Blue said she wanted to get something to A for comment. A few posts up. What does she want to show her. I can copy it and see if she has a response if you want.
Joly, I think it's cac post about her theory on putting together the numbers that Danielle is saying...
It would be GREAT if you could pass that along to A for cac and us. I believe Blue was referring to cac's 2nd and 3rd posts from page 3 of this thread... particularly this part of her second post:
cac: Now, back to those numbers.
If you take the individual numbers said by each person and put them together, Sayid says 1640 and Danielle says 1632.
1640 was the year the first coffee house was built in Europe. Did you know that coffee is the second largest traded commodity after oil?
1632 was the year that Galileo said that the Earth revolves around the sun. 1632 was the year that John Locke was born. 1632 could have been a year when the Black Rock was sailing. 1632 is the name of a novel about the inhabitants of an American town being transported back to 1632 Germany in an alternate universe.
Here's how it begins:
The mystery would never be solved. It would simply join others, like the Tunguska event or the Square Crater on Callisto, in the catalogue of unexplained occurrences. The initial worldwide excitement waned within a few months, as it became clear that no quick answers would be found. For a few years grieving relatives would, with some success, press officialdom to maintain the studies and inquiries. But there were no lawyers to keep the fires stoked. The courts ruled soon enough that the Grantville Disaster was an Act of God, for which insurance companies were not liable. Within ten years, the Disaster had devolved into another domain of fanatics and enthusiasts, like the Kennedy Assassination. Thereafter, of course, it enjoyed a near-eternal half-life. But few if any reputable scientists in the world held out any hope for a final explanation.
Theories, of course, abounded. But the vague traces on instruments were impossible to decipher clearly. A small black hole, passing through the Earth. That was one theory. Another?popular for a time until the underlying mathematics were rejected in the light of later discoveries?was that a fragmented superstring had struck the planet a glancing blow.
Looking at the numbers again, I've found a couple more dates that are relevant.
Returning to 1632: - July 23 - 300 colonists for New France depart Dieppe - Antigua and Barbuda is first colonized by England - Portuguese driven out of Bengal. - Charles I of England issues charter for the colony of Maryland (named in honor of Henrietta Maria), under control of Lord Baltimore.
In the Pilot, Jack says, "Well, fear's sort of an odd thing. When I was in residency my first solo procedure was a spinal surgery on a 16 year old kid, a girl. And at the end, after 13 hours, ..."
1613 - Galileo observes Neptune, but mistakes it for a star and so is not credited with its discovery. - Adriaen Block's ship Tyger is destroyed by fire, forcing him and his crew to spend the winter on Manhattan
In Exodus I, Danielle says, "On this island sixteen years ago. There were six of us. My team -- six."
1666 - September 2 - Great Fire of London: A large fire breaks out in London in the house of Charles II's baker on Pudding Lane near London Bridge. The fire burns for three days destroying 10,000 buildings including St. Paul's Cathedral, but only 16 people are known to have died. - Sir Isaac Newton uses a prism to split sunlight into its component colours, which helped us understand the nature of light more comprehensively.
The pattern seems to be years of scientific discovery, but also with references to colonization and a few disasters.
This points us toward the island being a scientific discovery in itself, perhaps with some colonization going on. This is not exactly news to those of us who've held these theories for some time, but it certainly supports what we've been thinking.
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Maybe there's a reason Danielle kept Nadia's photo. Could she have possibly recognized Nadia?
Good thought Cac! I love reading your insights of the questions! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I went and read the transcipts for Solitary yesterday morning to find out what Danielle says they were searching for after finding the radio tower. While I was reading it, it struck me why was Danielle so interested in Nadia, she kept asking questions about her? I thought it was strange until now!
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
I have some questions, thoughts about the episode Numbers, maybe you guys discussed this the forst time it aired? The first one is this....
Look! I don't even know what these papers mean. For all I know they could be the ravings of her disturbed mind - song lyrics mixed with equations. [He hands the papers to Hurley and shows a map to Jack] If this map is pointing to her, then you should know she resides here, in this area. She gave it a name: Territoire Fonce, Shannon translated it. It means dark territory. Does that sound like a place you'd like to visit?
So did Danielle live in The Dark Territory?? When I watched Exodus, and she takes them to The Black Rock, when she reaches that piece of cloth, and says something like they have reached the Dark Territory, she seems scared? She says this is where Moutagne (sp) lost his arm. Why would she act like that if she lives there? I hope I explained that well enough?
Have you guys discussed where the cable goes on the island? It goes in to the ground right before the dried up river? It also looked like the booby traps were for the cable, not for Danielle's hideout?
Danielle didn't know about the hatch, right? And we know the hatch has the numbers on it, is the hatch what they should have been looking for? Is that the meaning of the numbers?
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Jo, thanks for passing that along to Ada. It would be nice to know if I'm on the right track with the number pattern.
ME: Or maybe it's more symbolic - the pit inside... cutting to the center of something... finding what's below the surface...
Ooo yes ... the layers ... finding something unexpected beneath the surface. This applies to both the people and the island itself.
The "Meganumber" was 42, so maybe the connect four is 1642...
1642 - Beginning of English Civil War. - Abel Tasman becomes the first European to discover the island Van Diemen's Land (later renamed Tasmania). - Abel Tasman achieves the first recorded European sighting of New Zealand. - Blaise Pascal produces a mechanical adding machine (the "Pascaline"). - Jean-Baptiste Tavernier brings Hope diamond to Europe - birth of Isaac Newton - death of Galileo
Bliss: So did Danielle live in The Dark Territory??
We're a little confused about that too. We initially thought that Danielle lived in the Dark Territory because it had a lower amount of radio and/or electromagnetic waves. We thought this might be what helped her stave off the illness. I still think that's the case, so maybe her 'fear' of entering the Dark Territory was simply a memory of Montaigne losing his arm.
Have you guys discussed where the cable goes on the island?
If it's a power cable, it goes to the power source, which I think is a hydro dam disguised to look like the waterfall that Kate and Sawyer found. If it's a communications cable, it goes to the underground antenna.
Danielle said that there's a radio tower up by the Black Rock. One of the new spoilers says something about a mountain climber. Could the tower be disguised as a mountain, as we originally speculated, and this new character will help them climb it?
I think the booby traps were to keep the Others away from Danielle, or at least warn her that they are coming. If they were for the cable, I think they'd have been built where it's most vulnerable too, where it goes into the ocean.
Danielle didn't know about the hatch, right? And we know the hatch has the numbers on it, is the hatch what they should have been looking for? Is that the meaning of the numbers?
I don't think it's the entire meaning of the numbers, but I think it's an important part of it. They look like a serial number on the hatch, but they could be the number of a government project and it's what that project was designed to do that is the real meaning of the numbers.
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
How close are Claire and Aarons B-days? Anyone know when Claire was born? I think that is how many years they are apart. I think thats about all we can get by way of answer to this question of A's. Any Help??If she is 24, It was the year Mt St Helens erupted any connection there?
by: mrsbuns (423 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 29, 2004
Hey, I think I found another episode title, not that I can take credit for any of the research, I just spotted it in a spoiler thread: Episode 5 is called "...and Found" and will be Jin-centric.
I hope I'm not double posting something you all have known for a while...
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Thanks, Mrsbuns, that hadn't been reported here yet. You inspired me to visit Spoilerfix.com myself.
Interestingly, the Hurley episode hasn't had the title released yet.
Here's a bit more about the title of Jack's epi:
09/01 - "The second year is going to go deeper and deeper into where they are and where that's going to take them," [Matthew] Fox said of the show's characters. As for Fox's Dr. Jack Shepherd, the second season will bring on a search for spirituality. "Even though he is a very strict man of science, he's going to have to wake up to the reality of the world that he's operating in," Fox revealed. But don't assume all of the "Lost" clan will make it through to the end. "That's always going to be part of 'Lost,'" Fox insisted. "You are going to get attached to certain people, and you are going to lose them. That's the truth of this story." Source: ExtraTV
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Even though he is a very strict man of science, he's going to have to wake up to the reality of the world that he's operating in
So he's going to find faith, not lose it!
Thanks Cac, for explaining my questions! I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one confused about whether Danielle lives in the dark territory or not.
Boy, all these spoilers today are making me dizzy!..LOL So much to ingest!
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Parma put this in another thread, but I'll copy it here because it's what we were talking about today:
Re: Adamant reply Posted: Sep 01 @ 10:00 PM by: parma05 (149 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005 Hi Thunder,
Here is her answer:
Hey Thunder! Yes, Hugalsi is off! Not because a few people couldn't deal with her opinions, or because she was banned, because like most of the posters especially those she was having trouble with, she has other names!
Hugs is gone because she got a promotion at work that gives her a bigger office, an extra secretary, and less time to play! The nice part is, she doubled her salary today and gets to chose her own division. Life is good for her!
Parma is one of my assitants, and she doesn't talk to anyone who isn't sane. She can't be baited, and she won't share an opinion. Her silence says it all. She will simply transmit what you need to me and back. You'll like her, I promise!
Now, the Flatiron building? Let's just say it was the shape and the location that made it right for the show! And, it highlighted something that's special about Michael, which will come up again early in the new season. You were given hints of Michaels gift in this show, Special, and In Translation. Can you tell what it is? If Jin has great hearing, what is that Michael seems to be very good at? I tried to lead people to notice with the questions for Numbers this week, but since I can't be there to read answers, I don't know if anyone got it! Watch Numbers, and specifically Michael. What's he got a gift for?
The clue I was trying to give you for Numbers had to do with the constant reference to four years ago. If you list the dates that are turning up in the show, you will start to see a pattern. I'll stop there for now! But what was Claire doodling in her diary? Everything happens for a reason!
Is the mystery of what happened in la fonce territoire --- where arms are lost, where carriers bring death, where towers transmit but can't be seen --- important? It's one of the three cornerstones of the new season, and the three are all inter-related. So what can you do?
You have been shown what the carrier mystery is based on, you just haven't recognized it. The giant bird that flew away? Another clue. The maps of Danielle's, the lyrics and the Black Rock are all connected. Try to listen to what Danielle told you in this show, Numbers. She is giving you a big clue! She only has about six lines, so it shouldn't be hard to figure out at least what you should be looking at.
Find Daddio. Dad_of_4. He has done some great research on something that is on the map, that will come into play this season. The hatch, once opened, will bring the mystery of the island, and the people who have come there before, into one powerful reveal in November sweeps, and the big bird hasn't crowed it's last yet!
Thunder, Parma will check on you a couple of times a day. Keep using the same way to get what you need to her, and she will see it.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Just copying my reply from the other thread:
Thanks Ada and Parma. That's very helpful. Some of it confirms what we had noticed while other parts give us more to go on.
The Flatiron building would be a triangle and 23rd St., which we already had, but I think we are still guessing at how Michael is Special. From the Flatiron building inspiring him to design things, I would say that he is good at spacial relatations-type things and at designing things. I've said before that his special ability is in visualizing things and then creating them; that he has channeled his Specialness into his art and tries to direct Walt to do the same, but I've been disagreed with on that point. In the Numbers questions, however, A asked about his apparant ease at communicating with Jin. Perhaps Michael is seeing the pictures in Jin's mind, just as Vincent sees the knife being thrown in Walt's mind. He sees that Jin wants the bundle held tighter because Jin is picturing it that way while he's talking.
Several of us have noticed that a lot of things happened four years ago, and we've speculated that a few more that we don't have dates for also happened at that time. Several of them happened in hospitals, so I suspect they all happened in the same hospital, or the same 'accident' generated all of the injuries. Claire's doodles were of a dripping pipe (?) and a wavy line with circles drawn above and below. I'll have to think about how that's related.
I haven't anything new to say on the Dark Territory, so I'll leave that for now. I will guess that the "three cornerstones" are "les trois lots" on Danielle's map.
Dad, I assume it's your Rafiot thread to which A refers. Could you give us a quick summary, please? I know we worked on that in the Beechcraft and Episode Titles threads as well and that there were diverse opinions on it.
She mentions the big bird again. Did anyone else ever see what I described as an eagle on Locke's leg?
From what is here, looks like Claire and baby Aaron's bdays are 2 days apart.
Regarding the numbers ep. I see Hurley was wearing a number 7 jersey (in the scene where he was arrested). It reminded me of the seven candles on the cake in Michael's drawing. Also, looking at Michael's other drawing from the oceanic site, there are 7 spires on the Statue of Liberty's head.
Four years ago? Didn't Sawyer make a wish four years ago? Isn't there a lot of sixteen years ago references, too? (I should go look at timeline.)
I forgot my last point. Oh, well. It'll come to me.
Great stuff from A (via Parma) to chew on. Muchas gracias to both!
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
This isn't what I had forgotten above, but when Hurley was talking about all that he had put his family through in the last year, it reminded me of Michael asking Susan was going to leave after all they had gone through. Jack put his father through a lot (as said by his "mother").
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
This isn't what I had forgotten above, but when Hurley was talking about all that he had put his family through in the last year, it reminded me of Michael asking Susan was going to leave after all they had gone through. Jack put his father through a lot (as said by his "mother").
Yes, that's true, Blue... you're right!
cac: Claire's doodles were of a dripping pipe (?) and a wavy line with circles drawn above and below. I'll have to think about how that's related.
I always thought it looked like an oar-shape with dark drops dripping from it.... the one end is flat, wide and oval, like a paddle or oar. However, recently I adjusted the light and contract of that screen cap and noticed that right above that dripping oar Claire has doodled a HEART! So, is that supposed to be a scalpel, indicating heart surgery? Or does it represent a broken heart - love lost type situation?
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Wow, great clues from Ada! Thanks for sharing them with us! I had a strange thought about one of them, I don't know what it would mean if it were true?
You have been shown what the carrier mystery is based on, you just haven't recognized it.
Could the carriers be the crew from the Black Rock? I mean they were carrying things, mining equipment, slaves, etc..?
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
I thought I would post what Danielle says in Numbers here so we could maybe try and work on it.
Try to listen to what Danielle told you in this show, Numbers. She is giving you a big clue! She only has about six lines, so it shouldn't be hard to figure out at least what you should be looking at.
Hurley
You must be the French chick.
Danielle
Who are you?
Hurley
Hurley. I, uh. . . Sayid? That guy you tortured, he. . .
Danielle
You were on the plane.
Hurley
Look, I came here to find. . . [he reaches for his pocket; Danielle aims her rifle] oh, easy, easy, easy. I'm just getting your notes. Please, tell me why you wrote this. What do these numbers mean? Please.
Danielle
I don't know.
Hurley
What? You don't know? Okay, that thing in the woods, maybe it's a monster, maybe it's a pissed off giraffe, I don't know. The fact that no one is even looking for us, yeah, that's weird, but I just go along with it because I'm along for the ride, good old fun time Hurley. Well guess what? Now, I want some friggin' answers.
Danielle [lowering her rifle]
Our ship picked up a transmission, a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source. It was weeks before we found the radio tower.
Hurley
There's a radio tower on this island?
Danielle
Yes, up by the black rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue. But then the sickness came. When my team was gone, I went back up to the tower and changed the transmission.
Hurley
The distress signal we heard?
Danielle
Yes.
Hurley
But the numbers. Did you ever find out anything about them. Do you know where they got their power?
Danielle
Power?
Hurley
They bring bad stuff to everyone around you. They're cursed. You know that, right? The numbers, they're cursed.
Danielle
Numbers are what brought me here. As it appears they brought you. Since that time I've lost everything, everyone I cared about. So yes, I suppose you're right. They are cursed.
Hurley
Thank you. Thank you. You have no idea how long I've been waiting for someone to agree with me. Thank you. Oh god, thank you.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Thanks Bliss. I'm going to recopy the whole paragraph that you quoted because I think it's all meant to be related somehow:
You have been shown what the carrier mystery is based on, you just haven't recognized it. The giant bird that flew away? Another clue. The maps of Danielle's, the lyrics and the Black Rock are all connected. Try to listen to what Danielle told you in this show, Numbers. She is giving you a big clue! She only has about six lines, so it shouldn't be hard to figure out at least what you should be looking at.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Do you think they were the carriers of the numbers? Just as I suspect our Losties are.
They already 'had' the numbers and when they heard them together, they changed course to follow them to the island. It's a literal version of what I think happened subconsiously to the passengers of 815.
She says "they" were the carriers, not "we," so she's setting herself apart. Is that how she staved off the illness? By not being a carrier of the numbers but just happened to be with them? This doesn't bode well for our Losties, though, as they all seem to 'have' the numbers.
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
She says "they" were the carriers, not "we," so she's setting herself apart. Is that how she staved off the illness? By not being a carrier of the numbers but just happened to be with them? This doesn't bode well for our Losties, though, as they all seem to 'have' the numbers.
Yes, now that you brought it up, I do think the carriers might be "the carriers of the numbers". Who do you think "they" are, Danielle's team?
I don't understand if Danielle and her team heard the numbers, how they could be the carriers, and not Danielle? Do you mean they had heard the numbers before, but Danielle hadn't?
I wonder if Lenny is a carrier of the numbers?
About Danielle, didn't she write the numbers down on the paper Hurley was carrying? So wouldn't she be a carrier of the numbers?
I hope I'm making sense, and understanding you correctly? I'm trying to do this, and work at the same time, darn work!..LOL
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Bliss, I believe that they have all been 'given' the numbers by people in their lives who have connections to the island. For example, Emily asked Locke what aisles the footballs were in and he replied 8 and 15, thereby receiving the numbers from his mother. I think that whomever it was who showed Michael the Flatiron building at 23rd St. also had a connection to the island and his was his or her way of transmitting the number to Michael.
Once you 'have' the numbers, they wait in your subconsious until they are triggered. I think the trigger was Hurley winning the lottery, which would have caused ALL the numbers to be reported in order. Once this happened, it set them all on the path to the island. Things started happening in their lives that led them to be on Flight 815.
However, this four years ago thing has me thinking that something else happened then that started the process. Maybe the lottery was merely the 'final call.'
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
TRIANGLES
Here's one for you src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
A quick google of Triangle, found me these:
Research Triangle Institute, "RTI International offers innovative research and development and a full spectrum of multi-disciplinary services worldwide in health and pharmaceuticals, advanced technology, surveys and statistics, education and training, economic and social development, and the environment." http://www.rti.org/
Research Triangle Park, begun in 1959 (the year after IGY), it's the largest research facility in the US, full of multinational companies: http://www.rtp.org/
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
I posted this in the Adamant and threads, but I thought I'd add it here too:
Daddio, I'm satisfied that we have the Flatiron clue. She said to look again at what you'd discussed from the maps. Would that be the Rafiot or something else?
There's an arrow before "lots" so some have said it's "ilots," meaning "the three little islands." Ada said it's NOT ilots, but lots. There are several translations for lots, but basically it means "the three things."
At the time, I thought that they are three things, located on the island, that are needed to triangulate a fourth location. These maps could have been made when they were looking for the radio antenna OR when they were looking for the meaning of the numbers.
I found this post of A's from the Beechcraft thread that I copied to the 4th Episode Titles thread on May 4th. Please keep in mind that this was before we knew the Black Rock was a ship. My words are in italics and A's are bolded.
Thanks Cac!
Once a question has been asked, I can consider it for answering, but I can't tell you things! That was the agreement I made.
Lets see.
1- This really isn't helping me much, but two of the three views show three islands and on the first layer, they are called "Les Trois Lots" or "The Three Portions/Shares/Lots/Prizes" This is also the root of the word lottery, which might be significant and is at least interesting.
"Les Trois Lots" could be three areas of the island that are divided among three groups of people on the island. Or they could be considered "prizes" because of their importance. The hatch, the Black Rock and ???.
Cac, the person who put those up is using HS French class to translate. Not being mean, just honest. "Lots" in French can also mean batch and a few other things. The term is what's important here, so a literal translation won't really help. See if you can figure out what the phrase "Les Trois Lots" could be applied to.
2- One of the islands is labeled "Rafiot," which the website translates as a "pejorative term for a ship, probably broken, not safe.." and speculates that it might be "A ship on a small island?" I think that what might not be safe about it is not the ship's seaworthiness, but rather it's precarious position balancing on top of the rock. I don't think the rafiot looks much like a ship at all, actually. It looks a bit like the flying saucer in Walt's comic or another "broken, not safe" vessel we've seen recently -- the Beechcraft plane, which also happened to be precariously balanced on top of a rock.
There are waves around it, which might lend support to the theory that the valley below the cliff was once flooded. The waves around the other two objects do look like they are a river flowing by, but the waves around the rafiot are different. Instead of flowing past it, they radiate out from it, as though it is the source of the waves. Since I'm still not comfortable with the idea that the island was flooded, I think these are electromagnetic waves emanating from the Black Rock. The Black Rock is the natural source of the electromagnetic waves on the island but these are boosted by the antenna.
Cac, again, the person who posted those maps is being too literal. Une rafiot is a tub. Don't dismiss this. Think on it for awhile. What is a tub, even in a natural element, what action does it make? Think of Ulysses. And then study the "island" that the word occurs near. Does it look to you like something might be on written on that island?
3- The same map shows the "Courant C?te" which they have explained to mean: courant = current, c?te = coast coastal current would have been translated by "courant cotier" so the word "c?te" does not refer to the current (it's a question of grammar) "coté" with an accent means "side" / "a coté" = beside, next to
I think Danielle is indicating the current the drowned Joanna and the arrows might indicate being pulled down rather than a lateral direction. I don't know how this connects to the Trois Lots, but the arrows do meet up with, and go off with, the ones along the bottom that form another wave. It could be a clue that the thing in the water that the power cable goes to is the third location.
Cac, good catch. Are they all tied in togethere? YES, then are. Find Psyk. She did quite a lot of research on this back in February. Compare notes on the waters off the island, and Cac? Start your own maps. You're going to learn that some of what the maps are showing are different than the truth. Start your own maps.
There you go! I'll stop back later and see if you need anything else!
Thanks for finally asking. I have tried to leave as many breadcrumbs as possible, but this one seemed to slip by no matter what I said!
Have fun!
There's more discussion following that, but I don't have time to go through it right now. If anyone else has the thread saved ...
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
She says "they" were the carriers, not "we," so she's setting herself apart. Is that how she staved off the illness? By not being a carrier of the numbers but just happened to be with them? This doesn't bode well for our Losties, though, as they all seem to 'have' the numbers.
Yes, now that you brought it up, I do think the carriers might be "the carriers of the numbers". Who do you think "they" are, Danielle's team?
I don't understand if Danielle and her team heard the numbers, how they could be the carriers, and not Danielle? Do you mean they had heard the numbers before, but Danielle hadn't?
I wonder if Lenny is a carrier of the numbers?
About Danielle, didn't she write the numbers down on the paper Hurley was carrying? So wouldn't she be a carrier of the numbers?
I hope I'm making sense, and understanding you correctly? I'm trying to do this, and work at the same time, darn work!..LOL
In Solitary, Danielle says "they" were the carriers. Sayid asks "who were the carriers" and Danielle says "the others."
I'll bump my Danielle timeline thread that includes all her dialogue.
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
In Solitary, Danielle says "they" were the carriers. Sayid asks "who were the carriers" and Danielle says "the others."
We just don't know if she means the 'other others' (whisperers), or the other members of her group, or someone else she hasn't identified yet. She's an enigma, our Danielle! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
Hello.My name is Anahlawg and I'm a lostaholic.Please direct all suggested therapies or programs elsewhere as I wish to remain one. With respect to Danielle and the numbers,and why she didn't get the sickness,Sam Toomie heard the numbers on the radio,complete set not partial,and everyone around him was affected in a bad way.Hurley used the numbers,again complete set not partial, and this affected everyone around him,leaving him unscathed.Danielle and her team heard the numbers,safe to say complete set not partial?Danielle must have been on the radio of the ship or the one to first hear them making her the protected one? and those around her didn't tide so well.Her ability to remake the island transmission says she is experienced with communication equipment. I've noticed talk here of the antenna being underground but Danielle has always referred to it as a tower.Would the writers say tower if it was not? About the number 4 and patterns.Danielle said her team was studying time.Every four years is a leap year.Any thoughts here? And thus I end my foray out of the bowels of lurkdom.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Hello.My name is Anahlawg and I'm a lostaholic.Please direct all suggested therapies or programs elsewhere as I wish to remain one.
Hello, anahlawg! Welcome!
I think you're in the right place! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
You made some great observations - and I had never thought of ever four years being a leap year. Not sure what that could mean, but it's something to keep in mind!
I'm not sure about the antennea vs tower thing either... but Danielle is apparently quite the little Pinocchio... so maybe she is lying when referring to a "tower". She does talk about where the signal is being broadcast from.. that "they control it now"...
Cac, what are your thoughts on this? I'm sure we've discussed it before, but I'm a bit fuzzy on what conclusion we last came to. I still think it's underground...
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
look again marbs - the three red checkers form a red triangle
lol, You're right! I looked all over that entire pic and couldn't see a single triangle. Never even looked at the Connect 4 game. **************
ahnalawg -
I haven't seen anyone suggest that the complete set of numbers could be what keeps one person safe, vs partial numbers being 'unsafe'. I only have one thing that may suggest it isn't the case. Leonard (Lenny) Sims also heard the full set of numbers, and he ended up in a mental ward. Do you have any theories on why? I was thinking perhaps because he didn't actually ever use the numbers, he wasn't safe from their 'curse'.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
cac: She says "they" were the carriers, not "we," so she's setting herself apart. Is that how she staved off the illness? By not being a carrier of the numbers but just happened to be with them? This doesn't bode well for our Losties, though, as they all seem to 'have' the numbers.
cac, what do you mean by "carrier of the numbers", and how could or couldn't that cause an illness? I'm not getting that one! Are you thinking of this as if the numbers really ARE cursed, and bring bad luck? Otherwise, I'm not sure how that would work!
I'm also not sure I believe that the numbers are cursed... or bring bad luck... so not sure that's what she meant by "carriers", but interesting idea!
Bliss, I had posted a while back in Part 6 your same idea about maybe the carriers were the crew of her ship... so I share your thoughts on that! Not sure if that would be it or not, but... you never know.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Welcome, Anahlawg. You have some great observations, so I hope you return to this side of the computer screen again.
I hadn't thought of leap years, either, but that could be it. Since Danielle was studying time 16 years ago, that would have been a leap year too. Like ME, I'm stumped as to what that might mean, though.
I do think the antenna is underground, but it could be in a mountain, where Danielle might describe it as a tower.
You might be right about the numbers. The only distinction I can think of between Danielle, Sam and Hurley is that Sam and Hurley USED the numbers whereas Danielle only HEARD them (from what we know at this point).
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Numbers are what brought me here. As it appears they brought you.
Hey, maybe "Numbers" was the name of her ship! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0>
I mean, after all, we thought "the black rock" was really a black rock, but it turned out to be a ship... so... ya know? src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0>
by: lostrose (306 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
hi friends. I hope you don't mind me jumping into your conversation, but noticed you were talking about the numbers. This has probably been discussed already, but how about this: The numbers work as a phone number 481 415-2342. Maybe it was one of our losties phone number. Someone's work number, maybe one of Hurley's vast acquistions?
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
Rose, you've got the numbers wrong, but an interesting idea nonetheless. It's not a phone number though, it was tried months ago. No such number! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0> Someone once suggested the numbers might be a Library ISDN number, but that didn't pan out either.
ME and Cac - the leap years idea was discussed early on over on the Plot board. I can't speak for the General board, because I haven't hung out here since the beginning. I used to think Plot was where we were supposed to go to discuss the plot, so that's where I hung out. When I realized what I'd been missing over here, I hightailed it outta there pretty quickly. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0>
The 'leap year' threads are long gone, of course, but we tried researching what events had happened in leap years in the past. It was also noted that 8 and 16 are divisable by 4, so another theory that came up was that things were happening on a 4-yr loop. I don't know if that had been discussed on the GB in the early days. I don't recall if anything conclusive came out of those discussions, but I thought I'd just put that out there for you to ponder. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0>
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
Thank you for the welcome.Much appreciated.Bear with me until I master the italics thing. I mentioned full set of numbers because I feel thats important as to thier effect and not just partial number sets.I have been trying to find the full set with respect to each of the main characters and so far have only those I mentioned.Bit dicey in my thoughts on Lenny.Obviously is aware of the full set and is also quite aware of thier potential.Back story needed here please.Writers? The leap year idea came out after I read the post to look for a specific number and patterns and I locked in on 4 where most of you I believe went to 3.I see 4 in the groups,ie 4 on the raft,4 to find Danielle for the battery 4to the hatch even though it started with 6 to the BR. Leap year?Maybe the island is visible every 4 years. Also if I may,about the maps.I feel Danielle either a) brought them with her and they are what her team was working on before the numbers transmission b)she found them on the BR I don't feel she drew them as I don't see how she could have drawn the relief,side view from the perspective drawn. I find Danielle to be the most intriguing character in the show. I do hope answers are coming.I have no room left for s2 questions.Need to clean s1 out.
Slow poster here.Thanks for the leap year info Marblbc
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
anahlawg: The leap year idea came out after I read the post to look for a specific number and patterns and I locked in on 4 where most of you I believe went to 3.
anahlawg, you're right about all the "4s", but most people here and on the board went to 4s, and found 4 pattenters, long ago - and just more recently 3s... so it's a bit reverse of what you were perceiving. Everyone focused so much on 4s and 8s, etc, in the past, and missed many of the other numbers that weren't part of the official "numbers". When the season re-aired, we were advised to pay attention to OTHER numbers than just "the" numbers, so I did... and that's when I really started to pick up on 3s... an I think others did too.
I also noticed quite a few 5s, I think - but especially 3.
You are definitely right though - patterns of 4 are clearly a big part of this show. I also think, especially in light of A's most recent post of how she's been trying to point this out, that "4 years ago" has particular significance... we just have to figure out wht that is.
Now, Lostie time is September 2004... so four years ago would be September 2000... or more loosely, simply the year 2000. Did something happen in 2000 that also tied all the Lostie's together?
analawg: I don't feel she drew them as I don't see how she could have drawn the relief,side view from the perspective drawn.
I think Danielle could have drawn that map/relief according to how she perceived that the island would look from that perspective, without having ever seen the island from that perspective. There's a drawing of Michael's on the Oceanic-Air.com site of Manhattan Island in NY... drawing of the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, and WTC Twin Towers... and the perspective from which its drawn doesn't exist in reality - there's no way he could have seen all three landmarks together from that angle and vantage point. Yet it's not an impossible drawing - it's a drawing that he drew from his own imagination... perhaps drawing each landmark as he had once viewed it, but drew them together, as if appearing together in the city. This would be similar to those state map postcards you see that show landmarks, but they aren't really to scale, or that close together in reality.
My point being, in the same way that Michael drew that drawing of Manhattan and those landmarks, according to how he perceived it might look (not really looked) - which is from the perspective of looking at Manhattan from the ocean - Danielle may have drawn that map/relief according to how she thought it might look, from the water... without ever having seen it that way.
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
Good mourning Meandthesea and others.My bad on the 3, 4 thing.Guess I didn't look back far enough here.If I remember correctly didn't A say in that post that 1 number is very important to the plot?To me it seems to be 4 that stands out more than any of the others.These numbers have been driving me nuts since they first appeared. With the map drawing,very good point Meandthesea but,my artistic skills never developed past stick men, so I'm looking at new territory here, to be able to draw an island with the detail we see wouldn't the artist have to have at least seen the subject from that perspective at least to be able to draw an accurate sketch?Michael would have seen the buildings he drew, even in pictures and could then go on memory.Danielle and crew crashed at night and I don't see how she would have seen the island from what looks like a vantage point off island. On a different note from the following:
Hurley
There's a radio tower on this island?
Danielle
Yes, up by the black rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue.
one of A's questions had everyone focus on "continued to search for the meaning of those numbers" but I haven't seen any discussion on the rest of that statement "while we waited for rescue".The matter of fact way she said this'like she somehow knew rescue was imminent. Am I correct in assuming the clue bin is getting pretty empty and most roads have deadended for now?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
With the map drawing,very good point Meandthesea but,my artistic skills never developed past stick men, so I'm looking at new territory here, to be able to draw an island with the detail we see wouldn't the artist have to have at least seen the subject from that perspective at least to be able to draw an accurate sketch?
Very good point, anahlawg... and I think that IS the point. Ada said a while back that Danielle's maps aren't 100% accurate - and I think one reason for this is exactly this point - that some of it was drawn on speculation. If she was able to gather measurements, even roughly, of sme landmarks while on land, she could speculate of how it would appear from water. Let's put it this way - if she is on the island, explores that end of the island, takes measurements, and notes structures she thinks are significant, how would she convey this via a map or drawing? She couldn't really draw it from her current vantage point, so she can speculate by envisioning how it might look from the water... without ever having seen it. However, this would not necessarily be a 100% accurate sketch... which is exactly the point... and I'm glad you pointed that out. I don't think we're dealing with a completely accurate sketch, but Danielle's speculation.
As far as the 4s go, that is no problem - I think most of those posts might have been deleted by now because of how posts are deleted after 90 days. I only wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I agree that 4 seems to be an especially significant number. However, I am surprised at how significant 3 seems to be as well, now that I've paid more attention to other numbers, yet it's not one of "the" numbers.
I can't for the life of me find the thread I referred to about the triangle motif... it won't come up in any search (though some other threads do). Maybe it was deleted for some reason?
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
ME: cac, what do you mean by "carrier of the numbers", and how could or couldn't that cause an illness? I'm not getting that one! Are you thinking of this as if the numbers really ARE cursed, and bring bad luck? Otherwise, I'm not sure how that would work!
You know my theory about the Losties being ?given' the numbers by others who were connected to the island? Once they'd been given the numbers, they ?carried' them until the numbers were activated. It doesn't have anything to do with any illness. I've never believed that Danielle's two statements were related; I think she just happened to say them one after each other.
Anah, if there's one number that's more important to the plot, I definitely think it's four. Ada's clues were certainly pointing toward the many things that happened four years ago. I tend to think it was a one-time occurrence, rather than a cycle of 4 years, but that could be the case too.
2000 - The International Year for a Culture of Peace. - The World Mathematical Year.
Didn't A say, or responded positively to someone who said, something about Danielle seeing the island as her vessel flew toward the island? I think this idea was brought up when that drawing first appeared on the website. Perspective comes up again with the island/Manhattan collaged together, as each building would have been viewed from a different perspective, but all are put together in one cohesive drawing. This topic also came up when we talked about Cubism and Diego Rivera.
Anah: one of A's questions had everyone focus on "continued to search for the meaning of those numbers" but I haven't seen any discussion on the rest of that statement "while we waited for rescue".The matter of fact way she said this'like she somehow knew rescue was imminent. Am I correct in assuming the clue bin is getting pretty empty and most roads have deadended for now?
I think there are still plenty of clues that we can revisit.
Maybe Danielle and her team changed the message as soon as they found the radio tower and they "waited for rescue" hoping someone would hear their distress call.
by: Adawhen (1070 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 17, 2004
7!!! We can't be up to 7 already, can we?! Good heavens, the time is flying!
Danielle's maps were done with future seasons and plots in mind, and at least one of those future plots altered long about January. I'm not going to explain other than that right now, because it may yet be added back in at a future date. The good news is that least one of the things on her map that aren't making a great deal of sense right now will by the end of the first 8 episodes!
Great new place, you guys! I will stop by and give you some things to look at tomorrow, but just had to bring you this baby ficus that was cut off the 12 foot tree that Lain first gave you for thread 1.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
7!!! We can't be up to 7 already, can we?! Good heavens, the time is flying!
Danielle's maps were done with future seasons and plots in mind, and at least one of those future plots altered long about January. I'm not going to explain other than that right now, because it may yet be added back in at a future date. The good news is that least one of the things on her map that aren't making a great deal of sense right now will by the end of the first 8 episodes!
Great new place, you guys! I will stop by and give you some things to look at tomorrow, but just had to bring you this baby ficus that was cut off the 12 foot tree that Lain first gave you for thread 1.
7?! Incredible!
Any hey, ME? Hands off Rob. He's mine!
ADA! That Rob comment made me truly LOL!!! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hey, what can I say, you snooze, you loose! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Aw, but don't worry - I could never hold a candle to you. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Anyway, yes, Rob and I have become good board pals - and you don't fool me - I know that makes you happy! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Thanks so much for the info about Danielle's maps, for the ficus for our new digs (it's starting to look like the Lost island around here! Yay!), and for coming back today to give us things to think about - I CAN'T WAIT!
Oh, and thanks for making me laugh too! I needed that! You just better keep coming around if you want to keep your claim on Rob! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
See you soon, A - I hope! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
7!!! We can't be up to 7 already, can we?! Good heavens, the time is flying!
Danielle's maps were done with future seasons and plots in mind, and at least one of those future plots altered long about January. I'm not going to explain other than that right now, because it may yet be added back in at a future date. The good news is that least one of the things on her map that aren't making a great deal of sense right now will by the end of the first 8 episodes!
Great new place, you guys! I will stop by and give you some things to look at tomorrow, but just had to bring you this baby ficus that was cut off the 12 foot tree that Lain first gave you for thread 1.
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
In the Jate shipper thread, someone reposted some clues from A. The words "flux" and "wavy lines" were used. I don't remember if it was discussed elsewhere and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post these thoughts. But... I googled "flux" and "triangle." This led me to a page with words and equations that I don't understand.
However, on this page was an interesting word. Magnetohydrodynamics. I googled it and then read this:
Magnetohydrodynamics (or MHD) is the theory of the macroscopic interaction of electrically conducting fluids with a magnetic field. It is of importance in connection with many engineering problems, such as sustained plasma confinement for controlled thermonuclear fusion, liquid-metal cooling of nuclear reactors, and electromagnetic casting of metals. It also finds applications in geophysics and astronomy, where one prominent example is the so-called dynamo problem, that is, the question of the origin of the Earth's magnetic field in its liquid metal core.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
In the Jate shipper thread, someone reposted some clues from A. The words "flux" and "wavy lines" were used. I don't remember if it was discussed elsewhere and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to post these thoughts. But... I googled "flux" and "triangle." This led me to a page with words and equations that I don't understand.
However, on this page was an interesting word. Magnetohydrodynamics. I googled it and then read this:
Magnetohydrodynamics (or MHD) is the theory of the macroscopic interaction of electrically conducting fluids with a magnetic field. It is of importance in connection with many engineering problems, such as sustained plasma confinement for controlled thermonuclear fusion, liquid-metal cooling of nuclear reactors, and electromagnetic casting of metals. It also finds applications in geophysics and astronomy, where one prominent example is the so-called dynamo problem, that is, the question of the origin of the Earth's magnetic field in its liquid metal core.
Message was edited by: LostinBlue
Interesting, Blue! Not sure what it all means here, but I'm glad you posted it - could be a piece of the puzzle!
What is this thread doing on page 7?? That's insane!
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
think triangles
Ok... pizza. A slice of pizza.
Wait... what about triangles am I supposed to be thinking? src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Seriously though, I've been thinking triangles - but tell me more about what YOU'RE thinking about triangles, daddio! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
Hello Ohiorob2.I like the pyramid idea as well.Do you have any thoughts with respect to pyramid(s)?My thought is the triangle on the map is the base and the 3 angles given are the slope of the sides forming a tetrahedron or 3 sided pyramid.The apex of the pyramid indicates the location of the radio tower,if the triangle is for the purpose of finding the tower.With this in mind,Danielle said the tower is by the BlackRock.Does that mean the blackRock is at the apex.Don't really see a pyramid so probably grasping at straws here.Thoughts?
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
think triangles
(From the other thread)
What about a list of the triangles?
Flatiron building Triangulating the signal Triangle on the map Fiji triangle (?) The Jate/Kate/Sawyer luuuuuuv triangle src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Pyramids????///
Cool Rob, that's what I was thinking too src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
A pyramid has triangles for its vertical surfaces but its horizontal base is a square. Connect 4, anyone?
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
Captainaeon-Hi.A pyramid can have from 3 to 7 sides.In our case using the clues triangle and the numbers 3 and 4,4 traingles are required to form a 3 sided pyramid or tetrahedron.
Don't know if a pyramid exsists on the island,is the island or symbolic. Also,4 years ago which would be 2000 lost time and using pyramid,the Egyptian government was planning on placing a gold cap on the pyramid of Giza but canned the idea because of the masonic implications.
Maybe in the land of Lost they did cap it/one and set off or created a power source or something. Please tell me I am barking up the wrong tree so I can get this thought train out of my head and on to something that makes sense.(smiley guy here)
p.s. not a conspiratorial wing nut,just interested in masons,knights templar et al.('nuther smiley)
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Or with a triangular base....
I'm thinking of Egyptian pyramids. I think they all have square bases. (Besides, I wanted to use the Connect4 clue and the triangle clue in combination)
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
Cap.Analawg and Blue, Just got this in my head and trying to get a hold of it src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Ihave seen programs on Discovery Channel where the jungle had so over grown that those searching for pyramids were standing right on them but didn't "SEE" them. So much could be done with this.
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Egyptian pyramid...
Birds of Egypt...
Long ago there was a fun Egyptian thread all about Horus, the hawk-headed god (Egyptian bird reference) and the eye of Horus ("I've looked into the eye of the island..."). Isis was Horus' mother and she hid Horus on an island to protect him from an uncle who wanted to kill him...
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Cap.Analawg and Blue, Just got this in my head and trying to get a hold of it src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0> Ihave seen programs on Discovery Channel where the jungle had so over grown that those searching for pyramids were standing right on them but didn't "SEE" them. So much could be done with this.
Rob, as usual, GREAT idea src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Woe! I'm so glad I bumped this thread! GREAT thoughts everyone!
I had posted quite a while ago that I wondered if the triangle on the map was intended to be perceived vertically, not laying flat... or else was draw indicating a triangle drawn UNDER the big crater mountain... in other words, the top point of the triangle would be pointing up, just touching the surface from underneith. The base would be furthest below the surface. This could be an underground pyramid, I guess... or a space under the mountain?
Could it also be a scale of the mountain? Probably not... but you never know...
Another thought about the map over all... in terms of the overlapping of the maps... and "Les Trois Lots".
I mentioned this yesterday or the day before, but someone said that "lots" can mean "shares". In terms of mining, "shares" could make sense if it was about mining shares, or shares of the find, or what was mined. If there were three people, or three groups involved in the mining... divided into three shares. What if they decided to have three maps that needed to be used together, overlapped, to show where they hit the shares... to guarentee that one or two of them wouldn't take off with the loot. Was Kate and Tom's hidden time capsule forshadowing? Did Danielle and/or someone she stumbled across find all three maps at some point? Were they on the Black Rock?
And what if there were actually four miners, or four groups involved in the mining, and a fourth map... that's still missing... and that's why the maps don't make completely sense?
Just thoughts...
Glad to see everyone here!!! Hello! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0>
by: SOShelpReturns (321 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 30, 2005
WOW. I so need to get caught up. Does anyone have the first part of this thread saved? 1-5 I guess. So I can read?
And yes when I was in (forgive the spelling) Chetzunetza they had many buildings over grown with jungle still. And of course they had "unearthed" the pyramids, market, ballfield, etc. It was amazing to see what had been built and then just left, or where killed off, or abondaned the city ... etc.
Whole cities unearthed: large geographic area and enormous buildings!
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Are you referring to the 7 possible triangles?
Wow - Rob and SOS - GREAT thoughts and info on the hidden pyramids!
And sdog, is that YOU? Is the gang really returning?
Don't forget that one of Jack's tatoos has a pyramid looking shap... definitely triangles.
Sdog, what are the 7 possible triangles? A. was punching the "7" in her post the other day, in commenting about this being part 7 of this thread already - but heavy emphasis on the "7" - Blue wondered if that was a wink, and that crossed my mind too... but you never know, sometimes a 7 is just a 7.
Can't make heads nor tails of most of it but it mentions the Montauk Indian pyramids on Long Island and their relationship to the Mayan and Egyptian pyramids, languages, etc.
It adds a connection of pyramids to Montauk which we all went over earlier.
The most interesting thing I picked up was that the "secret is in the lines not shown, connect those lines and you will gain understanding". Maybe that's why we keep spinning in circles, we need to concentrate on the lines not shown. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0>
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Don't forget that one of Jack's tatoos has a pyramid looking shap... definitely triangles.
I also noticed last night that Jack's tattoo has a very distinct 5 on it also.
Hi One!
This weekend I watched a 22 minute "journey" of Lost on direct TV's channel 101, they showed the "swarm" when Kate tells Jack she saw it too, I definitely didn't see that the first time around, so weird src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: OneisLost (98 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 21, 2004
I've been peeking in from time to time. Been a job getting moved into the new house and I'm ashamed to admit I haven't watched the re-runs. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/sad.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Kinda wanted a "fresh" outlook on the new season.
Have any of you gotten the dvd's? Any new scoops or insights on stuff in the extras section?
The Southern cross looks a lot like the directions of Sayid's compass.
Jack's tattoo also has 8 large and 15 small triangles.
SOS, I do have all parts of this thread saved, but there's a LOT of reading to do. I can send them if you like.
I don't have the DVDs yet, and haven't been around enough the last few days to hear anything about them.
Sdog, One, Ada -- it's nice to see some familiar names again, along with the new ones.
I must have been dreaming Lost last night, because I woke up thinking, "The top of the Empire State Building is a radio tower." In the concrete jungle of Manhattan, the radio tower is 'disguised' as the city's most prominent building. It's hidden in plain sight, just as we suspect the radio tower on the island is.
The other buildings in Michael's drawing are the Statue of Liberty and the World Trade Center, right? Miss Liberty represents freedom, immigration and a journey to a new and better land. The WTC used to be a symbol of international commerce and cooperation, but now it's more associated with terrorism and something great being turned into something evil by a small group of very determined people.
by: OneisLost (98 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 21, 2004
Wasn't the tower on the Empire State building also designed to be a docking station for blimps? Airships? That ties in with the base info at Tustin too.
The lines not drawn. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: Gratewhiner (45 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
Greetings from the Far Side. I was sent by someone who thinks you're great. I only talk to two threads, yours and Banshee's. She says she had set this up with you, just in case, a couple of months ago.
Here is what she wrote for you. Later today, I should have more to put up. We are in different time zones, so sorry for the strange posting times. I am further west then the mainland right now, so my morning is your afternoon, and so on. I should be back in your evening with more.
Anyway:
"Hi ME and CAC and the other researchers! The hatch is a step forward in the island puzzle. It is NOT a solution, so please, don't be disappointed. Over this season, clues are being layered (laid into the scene dialog and background) into every episode. Yes, you heard me! Everyone.
The hatch reveals something that occured, that is occuring, and that will occur. It is something that you have touched on in your past research in THESE CAC THREADS. OK?
It leads to much more, but you won't understand how until all 23 hours (23 hours are this year's order, which is a "full" order, with an option to "pickup" two more hours. ABC should be taking the option, but that won't be finazlied until Jan/Feb) are airred.
Watch for similarities in the Locke and Jack FB epies and one of the new characters in the first six hours. And watch for more clues on why everyone on this island is so darn special, with a big one toward that in epi two.
And have fun!"
Back later. Sorry for any bad typing, it's not my strong point. If you have questions, you can put them in a post with my sn, and I'll find them and carry them to her. I'll check what YOU leave me at least once a day. She also says that this might overload your thread. You will have lovers, haters, and basketweavers (my words, not hers) in here, and if you've changed your mind and don't want to be one of the two, just say so. I am also under orders to talk only to ME and CAC. No one else. You two have to be the ones to ask the questions worth asking, and request info. She hopes it's not a burden, but says remember, you can say dont whenever you want. Bye.
by: sassafras__k (45 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
I realize this thread is slower than usual and I might not get a response but that's okay as Its more an observation than a question.
I was watching The Moth on DVD the other night and the final scene where Hurley puts on his headphones and the audience(us) can hear what he is hearing, I noticed that Charlie is playing the exact same song on his guitar, though I doubt he could hear the music from Hurleys headphones as they were not right near each other. Im sure this was mentioned before, but it was the first time I picked up on the "Jedi Mind Link" thing in this episode. I thought it was interesting.
by: blissfullylost (221 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
The hatch is a step forward in the island puzzle. It is NOT a solution, so please, don't be disappointed.
ACK! There is that word again! I'm praying that I won't be disappointed by whats in the hatch, but all these warnings scare me! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: Sheilab4 (19 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
How about beginning by going back to our roots (not that I'm precluding a continuation of current topics)? We have the titles of the first three episodes of the second season. Any predictions on how they apply to each character?
Man of Science, Man of Faith (Jack) Adrift (one of the adult raft crew: either Sawyer, Michael or Jin) Orientation (Locke)
Hugalsi shared this, which might help us get started:
... When I told her the street, she said that no one had noticed it before, and wasn't it cool how they were linking the hints together. I haven't been able to figure out what she meant by that yet, but she usually doesn't waste words. I'm pretty sure it's a clue to a clue, so you're probably right. She also said "no one's gotten the man of faith, man of science one yet", so I want to take a hard look at that one. I've been assuming the show was pointing us at a real philosophical point, but for her to bring it up like that while we were discussing a place, see? I thought maybe I was missing something more obvious. Something that might be in New York. It might be nothing, but that's what I'm going to look at tomorrow.
I forgot, she said that man of science, man of faith doesn't just refer to Jack and Locke, but to Jack himself. She says the first epi is going to show "a man of science who suffers a loss of faith, and where that led him". But the way she brought up the term when we were talking about the building just makes me think that I'm missing something else. The show is so layered that a street can be a clue, then I don't think it's too far-fetched to think they are layering clues one on top of the other. Just a thought, but I think I'll chase it down.
To which I added:
New York has a lot of history connected to both Science and Faith, so you could be right about that. This might be connected to an old hint to look at Diego Rivera's Man, Controller of the Universe. It's certainly about conflicting ideas of the greater good, and the original was in Rockefeller Center.
by: lism98 (60 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 16, 2005
Sorry, I am completely changing the subject for a second, but I noticed this last night in rewatching "Do No Harm" and looking at Ada's questions for the episode. Number 7 kind of jumped out at me
7-Claire gave you a clue. Did you hear it?
I noticed when Jin went over to Clare she said, "You know I was out there for over a week - days I can't remember. I mean, what if, what if they did something to the baby?"
I wonder if there are "days" she can't remember, are they days that she does? She told Locke in Numbers something about "bit's and pieces" but didn't elaborate.
Also, she used the word "they" instead of "Ethan" or "he"...and this is before she remembered Danielle...so who does she REMEMBER with Ethan? Maybe it was Danielle, but wouldn't she have pieced that together as soon as she saw her on the beach???
This may not be the answer to A's question, but it was a couple things that jumped out at me...
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
I am also under orders to talk only to ME and CAC. No one else. You two have to be the ones to ask the questions worth asking, and request info. She hopes it's not a burden, but says remember, you can say dont whenever you want. Bye.
Hello, Gatewhiner... welcome! Thank you, and please thank the one who sent you... and tell her I sid hello.
I am the "ME" she refers to... so I guess I'm one of the two who can say "yay" or "nay"... and on behalf of the thread, cac and myself... I say a big old YAY! Yes, please continue to post here... whatever whoever sent you would like to share with us. I need to re-read what you posted, and I might have questions.
I see Blue just asked a good question... and since I'm one of the two who can ask you, I'll make it official and ask the question for Blue... A dear friend was here the other day and posted, and she repeated the number 7 a lot. Would you ask the one who sent you if the emphasis on "7" was a wink?
Oh, and another question - if you don't mind... could you ask her "les tres lots - which definition?" We need some help with that - any more direction... an arrow to follow... a crumb... or... the flat out answer. Some of us have found it used as "The three batches", but also know that "lots" can mean "shares"... and other words. But what does it mean on the map... or how can we figure it out? If you could ask her this, we'd appreciate it!
Again, I'll re-read and form any questions. Meanwhile, we look forward to your posting of the next message from the one who sent you.
With great appreciation, to you and the one who sent you,
MEandthesea
p.s. please tell the one who sent you that we think she's great too!
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
ME, ask the question...apparently you are Bastion...and only you can CALL HER NAME!!!
I know, wild, eh?
Well, there was some trouble here in Dodge County a couple of weeks ago, not to mention the board, so that might be why the one who sent her didn't want her to wander around talking to just anyone.
Let me know what you want asked... and I'll do my best... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: dad_of_4_ (2114 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
Let me know what you want asked... and I'll do my best... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
7-Claire gave you a clue. Did you hear it?
I noticed when Jin went over to Clare she said, "You know I was out there for over a week - days I can't remember. I mean, what if, what if they did something to the baby?"
I wonder if there are "days" she can't remember, are they days that she does? She told Locke in Numbers something about "bit's and pieces" but didn't elaborate.
Also, she used the word "they" instead of "Ethan" or "he"...and this is before she remembered Danielle...so who does she REMEMBER with Ethan? Maybe it was Danielle, but wouldn't she have pieced that together as soon as she saw her on the beach???
This may not be the answer to A's question, but it was a couple things that jumped out at me...
lism, I picked up on that too last night - when Claire asked what if they did something to her baby... and I think that might very well be what A was referring to. Actually, I hadn't really picked up on the part where she said that there are days she can't remember - you're right in that it seems to imply that she does remember some, but not all.... which means, what does she remember.
Anyway, I think you're right about that line - but I'm not sure if it's the part about them doing something to her baby, or the part about her remembering some things, but not all, that is what she wanted us to think about.
Dad, I edited my post above to include your question.
by: captainaeon (1275 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 16, 2004
Sazyga posted this in Part 6, so I'm moving it here:
by jerseylostfan - sometime in June
Was it ever resolved if that possibly was little Jack in the scene with Locke and the mousetrap game? The two boys look alike.
Probably not discussing this anymore, but I don't think the kid looks that whitebread. It might be Hurley, he sprang the trap.
I don't think this ever was resolved. Personally, I always thought it was Boone.
The FB of Locke with the little boy took place after 1994 (from info on Emily Locke's medical records). Jack would have been approx 25 in 1994. The boy couldn't be Jack.
by: love2scuba (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 14, 2005
"You know I was out there for over a week - days I can't remember. I mean, what if, what if they did something to the baby?"
Maybe that is why they don't want the baby - they already did what they wanted to do to it... They may have also done something to Claire so she couldn't remember.
SOS wrote - "And yes when I was in (forgive the spelling) Chetzunetza they had many buildings over grown with jungle still. And of course they had "unearthed" the pyramids, market, ballfield, etc. It was amazing to see what had been built and then just left, or where killed off, or abondaned the city ... etc.
Whole cities unearthed: large geographic area and enormous buildings!"
I started going to Chichenitza and other Mayan pyramids in the Yucatan about 30 years ago. SOS is right. The jungle is so thick, you could stand on top of a pyramid and see mountains and hills going for many miles in the jungle. We were told the mountains and hills were actually more Mayan structures overgrown by the jungle and the land was flat.
The pyramids are so old and weathered that you wouldn't even know if you were climbing one if it is overgrown. Now I'm interested in going back and looking closely when Danielle leads the group to the Black Rock. They did an awful lot of climbing.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
"You know I was out there for over a week - days I can't remember. I mean, what if, what if they did something to the baby?"
Maybe that is why they don't want the baby - they already did what they wanted to do to it... They may have also done something to Claire so she couldn't remember.
SOS wrote - "And yes when I was in (forgive the spelling) Chetzunetza they had many buildings over grown with jungle still. And of course they had "unearthed" the pyramids, market, ballfield, etc. It was amazing to see what had been built and then just left, or where killed off, or abondaned the city ... etc.
Whole cities unearthed: large geographic area and enormous buildings!"
I started going to Chichenitza and other Mayan pyramids in the Yucatan about 30 years ago. SOS is right. The jungle is so thick, you could stand on top of a pyramid and see mountains and hills going for many miles in the jungle. We were told the mountains and hills were actually more Mayan structures overgrown by the jungle and the land was flat.
The pyramids are so old and weathered that you wouldn't even know if you were climbing one if it is overgrown. Now I'm interested in going back and looking closely when Danielle leads the group to the Black Rock. They did an awful lot of climbing.
Ok, a couple things here then...
Do you think the crater mountain could be a pyramid? That seems so weird to think there could be a pyramid on that island... but some sort of built structure that was bult over.
Now, I DO have to say that I've said, ever since we had any type of access to Danielle's maps, that I thought the mountain plateaus were really underground research facilities that were overgrown with jungle... but flat on top. Maybe not as old as ancient pyramids, yet man made structures that were overgrown and camoflaged as moutains and jungle.
Anyway, if the crater moutan is a pyramid... could then the triangle on her map have been her or someone trying to determine the original dimensions of it?
Another thing, when Danielle, Locke, Hurley, Kate and Artz were on their way to the Black Rock, after Artz headed back, right before they heard him yelping back as the security system got loose... you can see Danielle and Losties walking by a dark walk wall... they have to walk very close to it to walk past it, avoiding the trees, and she touches the wall... the Losties do too... but if you look at their legs, they pass what looks like a square stone block on the rock wall. Someone else first spotted this, but I could see it in screen caps too. Not sure if this was just a set thing that didn't get hidden enough, or of it was meant to be "something" - a visual clue. If it's the latter, that would say man-made structure...
by: lism98 (60 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 16, 2005
Another thing, when Danielle, Locke, Hurley, Kate and Artz were on their way to the Black Rock, after Artz headed back, right before they heard him yelping back as the security system got loose... you can see Danielle and Losties walking by a dark walk wall... they have to walk very close to it to walk past it, avoiding the trees, and she touches the wall... the Losties do too... but if you look at their legs, they pass what looks like a square stone block on the rock wall. Someone else first spotted this, but I could see it in screen caps too. Not sure if this was just a set thing that didn't get hidden enough, or of it was meant to be "something" - a visual clue. If it's the latter, that would say man-made structure...
I saw this too in the screencaps, and it was SO noticable in the caps that I thought it had to be intentional. Makes me beleive even more that something in build there...but what?
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
I saw this too in the screencaps, and it was SO noticable in the caps that I thought it had to be intentional. Makes me beleive even more that something in build there...but what?
by: lism98 (60 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 16, 2005
yeah, EXACTLY!!!
Now where does the door lead? Hmm... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
I saw this too in the screencaps, and it was SO noticable in the caps that I thought it had to be intentional. Makes me beleive even more that something in build there...but what?
It almost looked like a DOOR...
Yes, it sure is very noticable in the screen caps, isn't it?
Ok, do you think that's where the "radio tower" is located... and that's why it was so hard to find... it's inside that rock wall, behind that square stone or rock bock/door? Or that could even lead underground... or down lower... as you go in...
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
The inside of the radio tower?
"If anybody can hear this, they are dead, I'll try to go to the Black Rock, Please help us. Please help us. It's outside, it's outside, and Brendan took the keys! Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. It's outside, please help us. Please help us."
DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: Our ship picked up a transmission -- a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked, my team continued to search for the transmission source. It was weeks before we found the radio tower.HURLEY: There's a radio tower on this island? DANIELLE ROUSSEAU: Yes. Up by the Black Rock. Some of us continued to search for the meaning of those numbers while we waited for rescue. But then the sickness came. When my team was gone, I went back up to the tower and changed the transmission.
by: lism98 (60 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 16, 2005
After re-reading some of Danielle's quotes it makes alot of sense for the tower to be there. It would definately explain why it took weeks for them to find it.
Forgive if this is dumb, but...could a transmission get out of the inside of the mountain? Or would it block it?
by: OhioRob2 (394 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2004
After re-reading some of Danielle's quotes it makes alot of sense for the tower to be there. It would definately explain why it took weeks for them to find it.
Forgive if this is dumb, but...could a transmission get out of the inside of the mountain? Or would it block it?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
After re-reading some of Danielle's quotes it makes alot of sense for the tower to be there. It would definately explain why it took weeks for them to find it.
Forgive if this is dumb, but...could a transmission get out of the inside of the mountain? Or would it block it?
Does that make any sense??? LOL
Well, a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago we were given clues and did a lot of researching and investigating that let us to the Montauk Project, which involved a huge, underground antennea, and basically we were given indication that this (this idea/something similar) was why it took Danielle's team so long to find the tower... or wherever the tranmission was being broadcast from.
Pine Gap, where Lenny and Sam were stationed, also has a huge underground antennea, i believe... wayyyyyyyy down under the surface. Now, I know that's a listening post, so it receives transmissions way down there, but I'm not sure about sending them... but maybe it could.
I also remember A. relaying a clue through a friend way back, which was something like... on the island, "nothing is what it seems, even when it's exactly what it seems." This always made me think that things that we see have dual purposes... like, a tree might be a tree, but might also have a security camera in it... or something like that.
by: lism98 (60 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 16, 2005
too funny, Rob. I'm just not really literate on 'radio technology/mountains I guess.
I'll have to google it...now I really want to know if it's possible... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
"If anybody can hear this, they are dead, I'll try to go to the Black Rock, Please help us. Please help us. It's outside, it's outside, and Brendan took the keys! Please help us. They are dead. They are all dead. It's outside, please help us. Please help us."
And how would Danielle's rescuers know about Black Rock ? What and where it is?
I don't think it is an accident Danielle is on the island.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Or how it works ie. motion detector/
I agree. She seems to know that it doesn't seem to bother anything in the Banyan trees, and I'm guessing other foliage. Remember how Jack seemed to avoid it at the **** pit by getting in the bushes?
So, is it heat detection? And somehow the foliage interferes with that?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
The hatch reveals something that occured, that is occuring, and that will occur. It is something that you have touched on in your past research in THESE CAC THREADS. OK?
Ok... in reading this... thinking about what we have touched on in our research in this thread, that I think it could maybe be....
1. Mind control experiments, ala Montauk
2. Something involving magnetosomes? Though I don't think that was only in this thread, even if this was one of the first places where the was posted about...
3. Ever since Sayid heard the first Whispers, I thought that there were people living underground - very possibly disfigured, but were friendly... however, didn't develop this theory through research, so this might not be it.
4. Cac is still hold tight to her time portal theory, I think... so that's always a possibility. (well, i personally don't think so, but I respect my pal cac and will definitely grant her the possibility). src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
5. I found, through research, the ECHELON connection between Pine Gap and Ft. Lewis, so could there be an underground listening post down the hatch??
Just some thoughts. Gratewhiner, if you read this and would pass these thoughts along to the one who sent you, and ask her what she thinks, I'd truly appreciate it. And would you please tell her I said hello, and thinking of her? Thank you!
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
So, is it heat detection? And somehow the foliage interferes with that?
If it's heat detection, could that explain the reason for the rain? The rain would cool the air, making it easier to sense the heat coming off the people? Of course, that doesn't explain why hiding in the trees seems to work.
Regarding an antenna - could it be hidden within the mast of the Black Rock?
ME - I've also believed for a long time that the whisperers are living underground, and their voices are carried up through air vents. I also have a sneaking suspicion that there are security cameras mounted in the trees in certain areas, keeping an eye on our lostaways.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
ME - I've also believed for a long time that the whisperers are living underground, and their voices are carried up through air vents. I also have a sneaking suspicion that there are security cameras mounted in the trees in certain areas, keeping an eye on our lostaways.
Hi marl! I thought the security cameras at Cooper's gate might have been a visual clue to this... the idea of security cameras up in the trees on the island.
Not sure about the antennea being in the mast of the ship - I know that theory has been tossed around the board before in the past. Not sure how that could be, but... you never know! It's not like they really explored the ship. Just doesn't seem like a very stable structure, yet it's still broadcasting. But, could be!
Still seemed like A. was indicating that the antennea was underground, and that's why it took Danielle and friends so long to find it, but A. never flat out said that - just let us to Montauk and the underground antennea there, in relation to Danielle having a hard time finding the source of the transmission.
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
antenna/mast - just a thought, you know hidden in plain sight. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Not everything is what it seems. I'm willing to bet it's underground as well. I think there's a lot underground, but early on I was told that was a silly idea (not in so many words, but still...)
Re the idea of security cameras...I'll go one further. I think there could be speakers mounted up there as well, transmitting the 'monster' noises, that some of what we see and hear when the 'monster' makes an appearance are there to intensify the fear of the losties. Sort of a 'man behind the curtain' type of effect, if you see what I mean.
by: Gratewhiner (45 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
ME, she says to say I'm not allowed to talk to anyone but you and Cac because those around her (meaning those of us she sends) tend to have strong feelings on certain subjects. She says to tell you, it's for your protection so trolls won't come running in to refute our opinions. I am to bring the questions to her, and the answers back. Other than that, I'm to keep my mouth closed and not express an opinion on what it's like to watch someone you love treated as she is treated on this board. I know. That was an opinion. She's right. Just the facts, Ma'm.
I think there was only three questions:
1- Translation of "trois lots" on the map.
2- Is the number 7 significant
3- Was 7 days the clue from Claire that she hinted to you?
Answers:
"OOoooooo, Lost talk! I love Lost talk!
1- The french wording was deliberately ambiguous (no kidding, huh?). It could refer to a place/s, persons, or things. I can tell you that the map will be playing a big role in this season, which is why I kept shouting MAP at everyone back when the first flush of plotting for this coming season was happening in March and April. So what does trois lots mean? It means "three batches", now what does THAT refer to? Where you found the words is the tell on that clue.
What evil hoo hoos write this thing anyway?
OK. Two more weeks, and while accurate, that wasn't much of a clue! So let's prompt you a little more. There are bigger clues than that to be found on the maps, specifically the one that shows the island from the side view. Carpeoccassio has a great version on lostlinks.net. Everyone is staring at the song lyrics, which do tell you something.......in season 3! But right now, you are missing some things that could be helpful going into season 2. Look at it. Closely. Also, look above it. There's a funny little equation sitting above something on the map......on the island.......high up. You might want to study that equation for awhile!
Put the lyric with the place with the equation, and what does it spell?! Season 2.
2 and 3 can be answered in one word, no. Sorry. I was waving my fat little fist at a pronoun that Claire used in that sentence. These questions and that line were important before you had ever seen the Others, but more importantly, her use of that pronoun revealed something that even Claire hadn't faced at that time. She was taken by more than one person, and she was held by more than one person, and she escaped more than one person.
Were they "the Others"? Were they someone else? Someone closer to home? Some ones who were also LOST?
Now WAIT! Don't go hogwild with that! Just keep in mind that we don't know who's been doing what on this island, and more than a month has gone by. But Claire's subconcious knows one thing, there was more than Ethan who did it.
Claire's island adventure, by the way, is not over. Not by a long shot!
And poor greiving Shannon? Her past is about to come back to haunt her.
Heeheehee.
Hope your having fun!"
I'll check back tomorrow, but probably not until your evening.
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
Everyone is staring at the song lyrics, which do tell you something.......in season 3! But right now, you are missing some things that could be helpful going into season 2. Look at it. Closely. Also, look above it. There's a funny little equation sitting above something on the map......on the island.......high up. You might want to study that equation for awhile!
Put the lyric with the place with the equation, and what does it spell?! Season 2.
by: LostinBlue (2434 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
From what I remember from the La Mer thread, there was a math guy that said the equation suggested a measurement of approach. Like what angle the meteor (which is right below the equation) descended and crashed to the island.
by: love2scuba (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 14, 2005
Thank you Gratewhiner!
Regarding where the transmission tower or antena is, if it has been there awhile, it could easily be overgrown by the jungle and not visable. The jungle grows very quickly. Maybe the door we are seeing leads into an area where the equipment is protected.
I've also believed for a long time that the whisperers are living underground, and their voices are carried up through air vents. I also have a sneaking suspicion that there are security cameras mounted in the trees in certain areas, keeping an eye on our lostaways.
This relates to the jungle of Yucatan and the limestone formations. Due to the rain and limestone, there are underground rivers throughout the jungle. I'm not sure of how it is all formed, but what I do know is while walking through the jungle, you often feel like the ground under you is hollow. That's because it is. Also, I've been scuba diving in underground caves there and you can often see where the limestone is thin enough to see daylight through - even with areas of many small holes opening to air. In some areas the water goes up to the rock, in other places the is air between the top of the water and the rock - or floor of the jungle.
What I'm getting at, could there be natural underground tunnels, not necessarily filled with water, where the people whispering or talking could be coming from? I've always thought that was a possibility.
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
Blue - there were a few good suggestions made in the La Mer thread that were quite interesting. Others involved scaling the size of the island, triangulating location...oh, others I can't think of just now.
I've gone back and am staring at the map trying to figure out which equation I'm supposed to fit with which lyric....giving myself a headache.
I was thinking of splitting my La Mer thread into two separate threads, one for the lyrics and another to discuss the equations, but now I think I better keep it as one unit. They are related, as I suspected when I started the thread.
Scuba - I agree completely that there are likely naturally formed tunnels, that have been further excavated and adapted to the needs of 'whoever', and I've also said several times that I believe there is an underwater cavern large enough for use as a submarine docking bay. I believe Joanna got too close for comfort and was 'taken' by the others.
Dad_of_4 started a thread asking for our real actual theories before Season 2 begins, and I'm trying to put all my thoughts together and making my stand in his thread. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
The three batches.Found on a map.3 maps? 3 sets of maps? 2 things on that block.Anyone remember how close they were to the black rock after they passed it?(danielle-tower up by black rock). Also,the block looks to be set back into the rock and up along the top edge, if you look closely are what appear to be engravings,like what you see on mayan or aztec sites.Straight up from the center of the block is the most promminent one.My imagination? Something Claire said stood out to me this time around.When she was saying- the baby knew she was going to give it up.Babies know these things.Others took danielles baby.But,then why Walt? Meandthesea-your theory on the whisperers being underground-when you hear a sound you immediatly turn your head in that direction then zero in on the source,looking at it.If I recall correctly didn't Sayid look up and around and Sawyer the same? Or a trick of acoustics.
by: LostDuckie7 (189 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 17, 2005
PIR or motion detectors do use heat or changes in temperature to detect motion. If you ever saw the remake of "The Thomas Crown Affair" they made the museum very hot to blind them. I'm sort of doubting that this is a security system at all now, that's just what Danielle thinks it is. It's a really bad enviorment with the jungle overgrowing cameras, would need power wiring or batteries to be changed. Could be solar powered but then the growth might cover it up. Animals coming and going would be constantly setting it off, and then the humidity. It's just a really nasty enviorment for this.
That's a great catch on the 'door'. I've been to the Mayan ruins of Lamanai & Tikal and as I remember Lamanai is still about 90-95 % covered in jungle and Tikal is very large but was lost for centuries in the jungle. I don't think Polynesians built structures like this so this might be telling us a lot about the history of the island.
The equations on the right side had 3 equations and I've never found or been able to see what was in the bottom one. The top one was the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle and the middle one was the angle. These are also used for for vectors. Same math, the magnitude of the vector is the hypotenuse and the angle is the direction. For example, speed is scaler with no direction such as 10 miles per hour. Velocity is vector and had magnitude & direction, as in 10 miles per hour in a North by Northeast direction. The top and bottom one both point to a word "radiance" or something like that. The double line with the arrow head means "is equivalent to".
On the equations on the left I can't really make out much. What looks like a large cursive L is used for Laplace transform but there isn't much more to but the range of 0 to 2 pi.
by: OneisLost (98 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 21, 2004
I just lightened the contrast on that one section of the screen cap and then plunked in the Oceanic logo. I'll leave any conclusions/speculations up to the individual. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Scuba - I agree completely that there are likely naturally formed tunnels, that have been further excavated and adapted to the needs of 'whoever', and I've also said several times that I believe there is an underwater cavern large enough for use as a submarine docking bay. I believe Joanna got too close for comfort and was 'taken' by the others.
I agree with this... naturally formed tunnels that have been adapted. I also agree with the underground cavern for a small sub docking bay too... possibly. Not sure if that's what took Joanna, not sure how that would work, if it's under the water (how it could then take her)... unless it had some sort of robotic arm, like those small research subs have. I did some research a while back that led me to a type of those that has what is called a sea engine, which is rather silent. I thought the thing the diary writer saw, that she assumed was a whale, was probably a small sub.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Thanks, Gatewhiner! I really appreciate you relaying our questions to the one who sent you, and bringing us her responses.
I'm afraid I might not have been clear enough with question #3 - or, actually... I think you might have misunderstood, which is perfectly understandable, considering the job you're doing here!
You see, I wasn't asking if Claire said "7 days"... but was referring to the answer to question #7 on a list of clues that A. gave back in the spring when Do No Harm was first aired. The question A. gave on that list was:
7-Claire gave you a clue. Did you hear it?
My question to the one who sent you was, is the clue Claire gave in the following line of hers:
Claire: "I mean, what if, what if they did something to the baby?"
Specifically... the word "they". She was aware that it was more than one. More than just Ethan. Was that the clue Claire gave? From the response you gave from the one who sent you, I'd say we were right! Yay, scuba! (and me! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> ).
Here's a question you missed from last night - I think it ended up on another page page 8 - the page after the questions you found - it's in response to something the one who sent you said in your first post from her:
blockquote] The hatch reveals something that occured, that is occuring, and that will occur. It is something that you have touched on in your past research in THESE CAC THREADS. OK?
Ok... in reading this... thinking about what we have touched on in our research in this thread, that I think it could maybe be....
1. Mind control experiments, ala Montauk
2. Something involving magnetosomes? Though I don't think that was only in this thread, even if this was one of the first places where the was posted about...
3. Ever since Sayid heard the first Whispers, I thought that there were people living underground - very possibly disfigured, but were friendly... however, didn't develop this theory through research, so this might not be it.
4. Cac is still hold tight to her time portal theory, I think... so that's always a possibility. (well, i personally don't think so, but I respect my pal cac and will definitely grant her the possibility). src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
5. I found, through research, the ECHELON connection between Pine Gap and Ft. Lewis, so could there be an underground listening post down the hatch??
Just some thoughts. Gratewhiner, if you read this and would pass these thoughts along to the one who sent you, and ask her what she thinks, I'd truly appreciate it. And would you please tell her I said hello, and thinking of her? Thank you!
Ok, one more question for this morning... could you ask the one who sent you... if, in Exodus 1, when Danielle, Hurley, Locke and all were in the Dark Territory, just after Arzt left and Danielle and group were heading to the BR, and they pass very closely by a rock wall, in screen caps we can see a distinct, large square stone block of some sort in the rock wall... you can see it clearly through their legs. Is that square stone block a visual clue? Is it blocking a door or entry way to caves below the mountains or plateaus, or underground tunnels, or better yet... the radio tower/transmission source, or is it just part of the set mechanics that didn't get hidden well enough before shooting?
If you could ask her about this, we'd really appreciate it - as we think it's a door/entryway into the mountain or underground tunnels/caves... and some of us also think it might be where the radio tower/antennea might be located.
by: LostOtter (153 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Three batches.......three separate batches of the five gorups that inhabit/inhabited our island? Three batches of/different types of sickness or cures for the sickness? Three different types of communication equipment...I have no clue, just some random thoughts.
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
*sigh* Post Rejected. Here goes again...
We've been told to look at the lyrics and the formulas. I've been trying to figure this out, and some new blood and fresh eyes would be appreciated here:
by: dad_of_4_ (2114 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
Just a thought--3 batches--
3 batches=Danielle & her group, the Nigerian plane people, and our Losties----3 different batches.
Or a "sickness" group, a control group and a "placebo" group??????
kager - that is what i proposed either in the questions, or map or earlier here...
if you google les trois lots - a couple of the response come back as study groups - I don't speak french so used yahoo to translate the topic and if comes back as exactly that
1) control group
2) Treatment a
3) Treatment b
I know that gitana said it's a minor clue but at least we know that its not valleys, islands, or related to the triangles in flat iron thread...
So I can at least drop some of the baggage and focus there...
by: kagergone (691 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 23, 2005
kager - that is what i proposed either in the questions, or map or earlier here...
if you google les trois lots - a couple of the response come back as study groups - I don't speak french so used yahoo to translate the topic and if comes back as exactly that
1) control group
2) Treatment a
3) Treatment b
I know that gitana said it's a minor clue but at least we know that its not valleys, islands, or related to the triangles in flat iron thread...
So I can at least drop some of the baggage and focus there...
Mil gracias grate
I'm sorry I duplicated your thoughts--I always hope that I'll have an original thought at least once in my life!!! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> (smiley face)--I shall give you all due credit when we find out you're right! Or maybe it's great minds think alike?!
btw-none of my post is meant to be sarcastic, mean-spirited or ugly--in light of all the bickering, I wanted to make that clear--no meanness in my posts.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
kager - you must not know me very well...
you could steal any of the dull knife's thoughts and I'd be there to help you polish them...
Ask sea or marbles, i'm a great recycler and a font of useless LOST information...
insert winky face
Yes, Dad is a font - definitely a font. A font of good will, and a much sharper font than he humbly lets on though. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Everyone, don't forget, in trying to figure out what "three bactches" refers to, she said to pay attention to where we found the words:
"So what does trois lots mean? It means "three batches", now what does THAT refer to? Where you found the words is the tell on that clue."
It is found out in the water, near three rocks or small islands or pieces of coral.
I agree with dad about the three study groups. I did a google of "les trois lots" and came up with French articles where "les trois lots" was in the context of specimens and study groups.
Now, I'm not sure how it relates to where it was located, except if they were studying marine life... especially coral around the island. I know that changes in water temperature, as well as pollutants in water, and changing currents, can all greatly impact marine environment, and I think coral is especially sensitive. Could they have been studying the coral to determine the overall magnitude of something that took place on the island? For example, if some sort of poison was released on the island, and people stayed in a sealed, underground biosphere (not the right word - but that idea) for protection from the poison, then Danielle's team came to find out the impact. Studying the coral reefs.
by: kagergone (691 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 23, 2005
Ok, try to follow my slightly demented musings....three batches--(Again, I'm "stealing" this from Dad)--three islands-three different perspectives--maybe one group of Losties/other groups on each different island? Since the words were found in the water on the map?
Dad and ME and all the others in this threads aren't anything but big fonts of information and learned-ness! You guys and your educated intellectual minds ROCK!
Dad, if you're a "dull knife", then I have got to be a plastic one. You're much much much sharper than the average bear.
by: love2scuba (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 14, 2005
There is obviously something out in that water. You have Joanne drowing out there and she was supposed to be a good swimmer and know about riptides and how to get out of them. You have Boone who is supposed to be a lifeguard almost drowning - although I question Boone as a lifeguard since he didn't know CPR.
Then add the spouts or whatever seen out in the water and the cable going out into the water.
I really like the idea of the underground submarine cave someone mentioned - sorry, I can't remember who it was.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
You have Boone who is supposed to be a lifeguard almost drowning - although I question Boone as a lifeguard since he didn't know CPR.
Maybe Boone watched one too many episodes of Baywatch and began to really believe he was a lifeguard. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: love2scuba (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 14, 2005
Whoa. This is something new - only half of my post got posted. How funny. Must be the Others.
What I wrote was that I don't think the testing could be with the water because it would be too hard, if not impossible to keep the tests groups separate. I'm leaning towards it being objects in the water or the 3 island theory.
If the words were not in the water, I would think it is the groups of people.
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Gatewhiner,
This is my second new post of questions for you to relay to her, if you would be so kind. My first new post with questions is the second post down on this page - which starts "Thanks, Gatewhiner!"
Anyway, here are some more questions for you to relay to the one who sent you, if you wouldn't mind getting them to her:
1. Was the reason Kate was in Australia have anything to do with her father's career (military)?
2. Did Kate make it to her destination?
3. What's so cool about Bali?
4. Why did the marshall have five guns?
That's it for now! Just don't forget the questions in the post above, and please know how much we appreciate you helping out her, and us, like this.
More questions coming soon - and please let her know that we welcome the posting of anything she'd like to share here.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Gratewhiner,
Thank you for bringing us clues! Welcome to our thread! Please tell our mutual friend that I, and I believe I'm speaking for everyone on the thread here, won't be disappointed if the hatch reveals nothing. I very much prefer clues to solutions, particularly when they support our past research.
I only have a couple of questions at the moment, but I'm afraid the second one requires a rather long answer, but not one that needs to be given all at once.
1. Further to ME's question about the door in the mountain, are their really drawings on the rock above it? Or are we imagining things?
2. Now that the DVD's are out, are there any questions for the episodes that weren't rerun this summer? Specifically, we are missing our homework for the Pilot Pt. 2, Raised by Another, Whatever the Case May Be, Hearts and Minds and Homecoming.
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
One, the Empire State Building was supposed to be a docking station, but they realized before they tried it that the wind up there would make loading and unloading passengers impossibly dangerous.
Sassafras, welcome to the board! I think you're the first to post about Charlie playing the song Hurley's listening to. Good catch on the "Jedi Mind Link." I like it when we find further evidence of psychic connections.
Sheila, welcome to the board to you too! I tend to think that Adrift might refer to the Losties drifting through their lives prior to the crash. Perhaps they felt as though fate was just carrying them along, like they weren't really in control.
Anahlawg, I aslo see a figure above the 'door' to the Black Rock? It looks a bit like a relief carving of a human/cat gargoyle. I don't see the Oceanic logo, though, Blue.
Speaking of multiple Black Rocks, could three of them be what 'les trois lots' are? They do look like three rocks on the map.
Besides them being underground, something else we discussed about the whisperers was that they might be speaking to each other via claireaudience and that Sayid and Sawyer accidentally overheard their conversation because they were psychically open to it at that time, possibly due to exhaustion.
Duckie, could the equations be used to locate something inside the mountain, something like a tomb inside a pyramid?
by: cac120 (513 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
What happened to young Walt (Malcolm David Kelley), kidnapped by The Others? Shannon (Maggie Grace) will spot him in the woods, but she'll have a hard time convincing her friends that she's not hallucinating.
Hurley looked up slowly. "Dude, this place is like the most crowded deserted island ever." He winced as Pierre found the wound. "There was a kid in the jungle back there."
Fly's eyes raised to look at the quiet jungle. "A kid."
Hurley nodded. "Yeah, man. A girl."
Boone turned towards the area where he and the others had just been. "In there? A girl?"
"You were there, man! What did you think that was? An ape?" Hurley snarled.
Boone looked confused. "Yeah, I was there! But I didn't see a girl."
Charlie, who had taken a seat beside Hurley, added quietly "Neither did I, mate."
Hurley shrugged off Pierre's help, and turned to look at his friend incredulously. "You didn't see her?"
- Flysail/Claire story
Although the story goes on to refute this, it got me wondering that if what I said in my last post about the Losties being able to psychically pick up on what the Whisperers are saying is correct, then this would support my theory that the missing children (Walt and Alex?) are turned into Whisperers by the Others. (Feel free to spoil me if you remember this invisible girl appearing again.) Anyway, she was definitely taken by the Others and met the same fate as Walt.
I think that Shannon is able to see Walt when no one else can because she has a stronger connection to him through Vincent.
(Yeah, I know, I should have read it ages ago, but I'm noticing SO many clues now.)
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Although the story goes on to refute this, it got me wondering that if what I said in my last post about the Losties being able to psychically pick up on what the Whisperers are saying is correct, then this would support my theory that the missing children (Walt and Alex?) are turned into Whisperers by the Others. (Feel free to spoil me if you remember this invisible girl appearing again.) Anyway, she was definitely taken by the Others and met the same fate as Walt.
I think that Shannon is able to see Walt when no one else can because she has a stronger connection to him through Vincent.
(Yeah, I know, I should have read it ages ago, but I'm noticing SO many clues now.)
TOLD YOU there were a lot of clues there - though be forewarned that not everything is a direct parallel.
Anyway, to be honest, I don't remember at all that Hurley didn't really see the girl... or that she was invisible. I know the others in the group didn't see her at first, and probably thought Hurley was just seeing things becaue it probably seemed so unbelieveable that a little girl would be out there in the jungle, but I'm almost certain Hurley really did see her.
I take it you're not done reading the story, right? Well, she does show up later in the story, and they ALL see her. They pretty much adopt her for a while and find a way to communicate her through gestures, and find out some things about the island from her. Sawyer and Locke take a fondness to her, which is sweet... and she ahd Walt become pals.
HOWEVER, before the Losties found her, she had indeed been taken by the Others (at least I assume they were the others)... and enslaved with other children from surrounding islands. She was able to escape.
Speaking of that story, at one point toward the end, Flysail follows a river bed to find that it ends smack tab at the steep rock side of a moutain. Actually, I think it might have been a DRIED river bed... but can't quite remember. Anyway, he put his hand on the rock mountain side, and it was very cold... despite the hot climate.
This makes me think, the boat people who took Walt, and how they were dressed so warmly - if they are underground... in caves or a mountain like that - as we suspect - if they are living in the abandoned mines - whatever the mines were adapted into - it might be very cold down/in there...
Anyway, hopes this clarifies a bit for you, cac! Glad you're reading the story! Hopefully we'll get a new chapter some day soon. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Bumping so GrateWhiner can see the questions from CAC and ME on page 9 on this page - two posts of questions from me on page 9, and one post from cac toward the bottom.
If you could relay these to the one who sent you, we'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks so much!! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: anahlawg (37 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 02, 2005
If the cold mountain is a clue,then naturally cold or artificial? Makes me think cryogenics or super conductors.What other activities require environment to be cold?Genetically manufactured hockey players?
by: MEandthesea (1172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
If the cold mountain is a clue,then naturally cold or artificial? Makes me think cryogenics or super conductors.What other activities require environment to be cold?Genetically manufactured hockey players?
I'm thinking artificial... at least in the F/C story. The sun and air temp was so hot that the moutain should have been warm at least on the the surface, even if naturally a lot cooler inside.
And yes, marl... made me think of the polar bears too!
And the way the river (or river bed) just stopped right at the mountain to me made it seem as if the mountain had been constructed right over the river... perhaps diverting the water under the moutain, or elsewhere. I'll have to go back and see if the river bed is dried up as Flysail is following it or not, but I think it is dried up.
Bumping so GrateWhiner can find this thread easily, and the three posts of questions to be relayed on page 9... two posts from me, and one from cac... all on page 9... all to GrateWhiner, and the one who sent him/her.
by: Gratewhiner (45 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
Hi. Sorry to have disappeared. Yesterday morning took a lot out of her, and they had her just resting. She talked for a little while on the other board, but she's hoping to get you and the Jaters some stuff up later today (it's early morning here). I have your questions, and I'll give them to her. Also, she said this morning that new chapters of Flysail will start appearing soon that will give clues to the new season, but she'll probably send them to Abraxas, and you can read at his site. Back in a few hours with her answers.
by: marbalbc (924 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2004
Please don't let her push herself too hard. We can wait. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: she_lost_colo (574 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 19, 2004
...new chapters of Flysail will start appearing soon that will give clues to the new season, but she'll probably send them to Abraxas, and you can read at his site.
Oooooo! Thanks, Grate!!! I'll be thrilled to see new Flysail/Claire story!!! I think I only saved the old stories twice when they were deleted from this place!! LOL
by: Gratewhiner (45 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
The Flysail story gave hints and clue to things what were going to occur in the show, usually months in advance. Some of the clues, especially in the chapters she wrote and posted between March-June, 2005 were for Season 2, not Season 1, and some were for the solution to the overall island mystery.
In the Flysail story, readers learned about the teetering plane caught in vines and a tree in early December, heard about the columns of black smoke that precede the Others in February, who the Others were after in November, and much more. The last week of November, there was even a clue in a sentence uttered by Danielle that, if you could figure out the four dashes, told you the Black Rock was a s h i p. When it expired recently, she didn't put it back up again because it's housed on Abraxas' site for anyone who wants to read it.
Here are her answers to your questions:
1. Did Kate's visit to Australia have to do with her father?
Yes, and no. I know, sounds purposefully vague and that's just what it is! Following the Boone Dies lesson, which is forever ground into our literary hearts, no leaks on the first hours of the new season. Why? Because the reveal in the third hour is big, with far-reaching reprecussions to the island mythology.
The first three hours, although shown over a three weeks, were scripted as a whole and you should be allowed to view them that way without being spoiled. Don't Boone yourselves, people! Don't read spoilers, which weaken the impact, and be paitent. Remember to TiVo or tape all three hours. Trust me.....do it.
2. Did Kate reach her destination?
No.
3.What's the Bali thing about?
What do you know about Bali? Does Kate's story about Bali fit with what you know about her and her past? Where the heck is Bali? And how do you get there on a plane from Sydney to the US? Heeheehee.
Just so you know, it was more than anything a tip of the writers hat at a little song in a little musical called South Pacific. Specifically, the lyrics. Michner, the author of the book the show was based on, actually meant a different place altogether, but while references were being bandied about one day, several writers (those that were old enough to remember the musical!) began singing the song, and the words fit with the LOST island. Here. You'll see what I mean!
Most people live on a lonely island Lost in the middle of a foggy sea Most people long for another island One where they know they would like to be Bali Ha'i may call you, any night, any day In your heart, you'll hear it call you, come away...Come away Bali Ha'i will whisper on the wind of the sea Here am I your special island Come to me...Come to me... Your own special hopes, your own special dreams Bloom on the hillside and shine in the streams If you try, you'll find me Where the sky meets the sea Here am I your special island Come to me...Come to me... Bali Ha'i...Bali Ha'i...Bali Ha'i Someday you'll see me floating in the sunshine My head sticking out from a low-lying cloud You hear me call you, singing through the sunshine Sweet and clear as can be, Come to me...Here am I...Come to me... If you try, you'll find me, Where the sky meets the sea, Here am I your special island Come to me...Come to me... Bali Ha'i...Bali Ha'i...Bali Ha'i...
Funny, isn't it? Or are we just evil?
4. Why all the guns?
One was his, one was his required spare when transporting offenders over international territories, and the other three --- Good question!
5. Whats the thing in the photo? A door?
The place where those scenes were shot is now off-limits following a tragic accident in 1999 that saw several people killed in a rockslide. This section of the pathway is volcanic slab, that can look like it is rectangular and cut. It's an illusion, and was not meant to resemble a door. Sorry!
6. The missing shows questions.
I have the ones for uni students, and I can work you up some that will direct you to the clues in those episodes, if you like. Just give me a yes or no, and Grate will find it!
Re: 
Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 7
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