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(Date Posted:01/12/2006 12:01:54)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Things out of purses are the inner feelings of a woman.
And MOST importantly reviewing the photos later, in the last shots of Jin by the bridge after he met Jun, I noticed 2 or 3 signs behind his head posted on the bridge. They look Korean and/or sort of like the I Ching stuff. does anyone here rerad Korean? They're like - right - there - plain site.
LOL... My fiance knows better than to get in my purse for anything " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Desmond spilled out his backpack when Jack caught up to him -- Desmond's inner feelings?
I'll have to go play the episode again and look at these! Has anyone else noticed them?
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
by the way -- has everyone seen the pics of jack's travel bag tags? the date on the tix is 09spet21.
I did see the pic of the ticket with the 09sept21 -- I had two thoughts -- (1) is it legit? I always confirm the source for any writers' quotes, etc. before i believe them. Have you been able to find that out? (2) Oh, that just means it was the 21st of September (09)... I know a lot of people are excited about the year 2009 but I read it the other way. What do you think?
I went and got The Stand today " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi all, Apparently there is a new Dharma Initiative video on the web.
To open the video, right click on the link below and click "save target as."
The text below the stations stuff is evidently a letter by the brother, Gary, of Dr Greg DeGroots and was included with the video.
I'm taking this with a big grain of salt until it can be confirmed positively absolutely legitimate.
Whoa.... It's gonna take me a while to digest this one... wow... I understand the "grain of salt thing", but it would be a pretty elaborate hoax. Still, there the good ole' genetic mirror theory " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Have you confirmed this yet?
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Ok took a look at the photos for the last show. Take a look at this paper that Jin and his friend were reading - looks like a Rosetta Stone or code breaking key --
Those are I Ching trigrams -- Jin's friend called it his "book of destiny" -- they're used to predict the future. If you Google "I Ching destiny" you'll see a bunch of sites with info on this. It's part of the cosmology that has been part of the ancient alchemist tradition for hundreds of years.
by: MattLost130 (20 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 08, 2005
I haven't seen the one with Jet Li, but the multiverse collision may be whats happening with the two sides of the island. The two ends of the plane. Apparently the writers have taken ideas from other movies and books, especially science fiction. I'm suspicious that they may be using a theme from the older movie "The Island" with regard to the pirates. In that movie descendants of pirates were still subsisting on a remote Bahamian island. Pirating and terrorizing leisure craft when they ventured too close. They also captured young children to indoctrinate them into their culture as due to in breeding they could not produce viable offspring on their own due to genetic defects that had manifested over several generations. This may be why Rousseau's son and Walt were taken.
Jenny, from page 4. "Apparently the writers have taken ideas from other movies and books, especially science fiction. I'm suspicious that they may be using a theme from the older movie "The Island" with regard to the pirates. In that movie descendants of pirates were still subsisting on a remote Bahamian island. Pirating and terrorizing leisure craft when they ventured too close. They also captured young children to indoctrinate them into their culture as due to in breeding they could not produce viable offspring on their own due to genetic defects that had manifested over several generations. This may be why Rousseau's son and Walt were taken."
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
From what I have read on other threads re: the Resume, it states his DOB and age. DOB is 11/27/1974.
I saw some posts discussing this day before yesterday, and then later that day there was a post with a link to The Fuselage site which included an admission by the writers that they made a mistake. The date mess-up on Jin's birthday was unintentional and not supposed to be a there, so it's not meaningful. Something about the prop people not getting approval of the resume, so no one caught the mistake. It looked legit to me. Anyone else seen anything?
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(Date Posted:01/12/2006 12:02:33)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
More thoughts on fatalism / determinism:
If you think back to the crucial question: "why am I on this plane and therefore on this island?" charcters fall into 2 camps --> In one camp are the characters who had no choice but to board. I'll call them the fatalists. In the other camp are the ones who specifically chose to board that flight, I'll call them the determinists.
Corvus, again, I'm glad you came out of lurkdom! Great post! I have SO much thinking and catching up to do. This area is particularly interesting to me -- it seems like so much of this show, countless details, rests on the perceptions of the characters. Not only are there two different groupd that you mentioned, but you get the sense that some may have been in the opposite group at a previous time in their lives. Keep going with this, I think it's a big part of the underlying message and so could provide clues as to where the writers might be taking things.
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
George, let go!
Whew, okay I'm out of time today -- jenny_n_manny, MattLost130, Diva_Tay, Aswinigirl, Back_Gammon, Sayiditisntso, and everyone else...
Thanks for all of the awesome ideas! I really enjoy how intelligent everyone is and how everyone really thinks hard about the show and comes up with so many different, interesting theories and questions. It's really wild how much in common so many of us have! And so nice to have a respectful place to share thoughts...
You guys give me so much to think about -- I apologize again for falling behind. And now all of this crazy spoiler info too!!! Dios Mio! I think I'll have to just start chiming in here and there when I can, and keep my fingers crossed that I make sense" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
It'll be a few days before I'll likely have more time for Lost, and then I will be overseas for a couple of weeks -- it's going to drive me nuts not being able to see where everyone's brains are taking you! If I'm not back in time for the next Lost I'll really have problems " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Anyway, hopefully I'll have a good window for some more theorizing and replies before I go... in case I don't, I hope everyone keeps up the thread!
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Those are I Ching trigrams -- Jin's friend called it his "book of destiny" -- they're used to predict the future. If you Google "I Ching destiny" you'll see a bunch of sites with info on this.
Thanks ! Now we just need someone to understand all this I Ching in the book of destiny....
I have been thinking for while that 23 is the only nondivisible number in "the magic set". IF you transpose 23 you have 32... AS THE CHAOS number it could mean it is printed backwards? much as the R in Dharma is backward as our clue? For all we know "rma" are all backwards because M and A are symmetical... I tried to transpose everything starting with after 23 and got a neater pattern:
4 8 15 16 (24 32)
or just transpose 23: 4 8 15 16 (32) 42
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(Date Posted:01/12/2006 12:03:04)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 23, 2005
Hi! This is definitely the best thread on the site!
I looked up the I Ching symbols on the Dharma logo: Starting at 12:00 and going clockwise: Fire, Earth, Wind, Heaven, Water, Thunder, Mountain and then Lake.
To read the 4 hexagrams, match the pairs which are opposite of each other.
For the Fire/Water (Wei Chi) pair: "The transition from chaos to order depends upon your achieving true inner calm. Wei Chi denotes a time of great responsibility. In a very real sense it can be said that the state of the world depends upon your thoughts and conduct now. The external world will only come into order if the inner world has done so."
For the Earth/Thunder (Fu) pair: "A time of darkness comes to a close. Let things develop naturally in their own way. Simply observe and accept changes as you observe and accept the rising of the sun. Allow yourself to rest and gather strength for a timew of growth ahead. By holding to modesty, gentleness and correct conduct you prepare the ground for a fruitful blossoming when the light fully returns."
For the Wind/Mountain (Chien) pair: "Those who persevere make continuous progress. Be patient, modest and accepting now. Life often demand that we wait longer than we might like for some change, and the only true comfort available during these times is the knowledge that we are steadfastly developing ourselves into supier people. In time every honor comes to those who are perservering."
For the Heaven/Lake (Lu) pair: "Lasting progress is won through quiet self discipline. In the end, it is our inner worth that determines our outer conditions of our lives. Those who resolve to perservere in humility, sincerity and gentleness and tread anywhere - even on the tail of of a tiger - and meet with success."
Could these four messages be the "theme" for the four seasons Lost will run?
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Zenmaster
And thank you for the nice compliment.
As you probably read above, Kateq468, who is our fearless threadmaster, is going to be away from the boards for a bit, so on her and everyone else's behalf let me say welcome to the thread.
The I-Ching, unfortunately, is not my strong suit. I'm still looking for the "Dummies Guide." " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>But I'm sure others here can engage in a meaningful and productive discussion with you.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
does ABC have a season break? its just that Ive noticed the next episode is due to be screened on Nov 9th - what happens next Wednesday ?
Reruns for the next 3 weeks, I think. Here in the US we have the World Series (baseball) beginning and I think ABC network didn't want to waste new episodes when they would be competing against the World Series. Also, November is a "sweeps" month, when a show's ratings determine the advertising rates that can be charged, so tv shows try to schedule their blockbuster episodes during sweeps. I think February and May are also sweeps months.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 15, 2005
back gammon, i love the idea of our "thread master" kate. and i just wanted to add to the happy vibe by saying that this thread really gives me hope in humanity ...
also, back gammon, i don't think your theory about why "they" don't leave fotprints is boring at all. to add in the dialogue "they don't leave footprints" is great dramatic flair, and that's all it might be. maybe they don't leave foot prints because they just take care not to. isn't that what all scary killer island people do?
the "other" hanso video appears to de a definite fraud. also, yes, jin's birthdate etc was a mistake. i also read that jack's tags are not official.
but i am still troubled as to why DL would make the comment that "we never said when the plane took off". that comment, more than any other, has really sold me on some kind of multiple-reality theory, or at least a "hole" in reality ot time or SOMETHING. a few weeks ago i would have said that, unequivically, that was not an option.
my husband keeps reminding me about chernobyl and the acceleration of the evolution in animal life in the area after the disaster. we did some web research and read that there was a significant acceleration of inter-species breeding in the area! hmmmmm...
arggg the astros just lost again. maybe our luck will change when the good guys come home.
kate, ENJOY THE BOOK.
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(Date Posted:01/12/2006 12:03:47)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 15, 2005
Hi! This is definitely the best thread on the site!
I looked up the I Ching symbols on the Dharma logo: Starting at ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>12:00 and going clockwise: Fire, Earth, Wind, Heaven, Water, Thunder, Mountain and then Lake.
To read the 4 hexagrams, match the pairs which are opposite of each other.
For the Fire/Water (Wei Chi) pair: "The transition from chaos to order depends upon your achieving true inner calm. Wei Chi denotes a time of great responsibility. In a very real sense it can be said that the state of the world depends upon your thoughts and conduct now. The external world will only come into order if the inner world has done so."
For the Earth/Thunder (Fu) pair: "A time of darkness comes to a close. Let things develop naturally in their own way. Simply observe and accept changes as you observe and accept the rising of the sun. Allow yourself to rest and gather strength for a timew of growth ahead. By holding to modesty, gentleness and correct conduct you prepare the ground for a fruitful blossoming when the light fully returns."
For the Wind/Mountain (Chien) pair: "Those who persevere make continuous progress. Be patient, modest and accepting now. Life often demand that we wait longer than we might like for some change, and the only true comfort available during these times is the knowledge that we are steadfastly developing ourselves into supier people. In time every honor comes to those who are perservering."
For the Heaven/Lake (Lu) pair: "Lasting progress is won through quiet self discipline. In the end, it is our inner worth that determines our outer conditions of our lives. Those who resolve to perservere in humility, sincerity and gentleness and tread anywhere - even on the tail of of a tiger - and meet with success."
Could these four messages be the "theme" for the four seasons Lost will run?
Namaste Z
that is just so absolutely facsinating. thanks for the post!
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:13:18)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 23 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>09:48 PM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Jenn-Mann, I'm gonna remove my earlier post about the most recent Hanso film. I'm convinced it's a fake, too. And if it isn't, it'll resurface without a doubt. Agreed that the other things you mentioned are also frauds or goofs. Production goofs do happen. And I don't think the producers are mean spirited enough to slip them in intentionally. They aren't deliberately trying to drive us crazy. LOL As for whether or not the plane took off in 2004 or not, I'm not sure if that's been settled. Still lots of confusion around that issue.
Kudus to everyone for contributing to a calm and happy vibe. We will inevitably disagree as we discuss the show and its mysteries, but I hope we will never lose respect for others nor ourselves.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Oh no! Thank you, but no. I'm just the thread's equivalent of the cheerful Walmart door greeter - and I'm very happy with that position. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: Jess_angell (17 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="18" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 18, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I just wanted to congratulate all you very clever people on your ideas, your research, and the fact that you are nice to each other. It is very refreshing and makes this one of the best threads on the board. ....
Exactly! I like that this thread has covered many different, well thought out and supported, theories! I also like that newbies and long time fans can discuss the show at length withouth getting aggitated.
That's also why I'm putting my thought-of-the-day in this thread. Cause i have some open questions and there are a lot of brains on here that might have some plausible answers. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
-What if the whispering, is like astral projection? -What if the higher self/the spiritual foresight/the third eye/the soul, has been completely removed from the human body? Similar to the 28 Days reference previously mentioned... the remaining Being would be soulless/dark/other/BOB (twin peaks reference). -If that's the case> that leaves the soul/higher self to live eternally? remain on the island? to be used as a source of energy ala 'The Golden Compass'? -Why is Walt appearing to Shannon and not Locke or Michael? Locke has a sense of the island and is touched with Sight, and Michael is searching for him... it seems odd that Shannon, a bit flighty, is chosen to be spoken to. Could it be because she owns his dog? She's recently been affected by death? She understands french? I'm drawing straw here folks.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
it seems odd that Shannon, a bit flighty, is chosen to be spoken to.
Hmmmmm.....interesting idea. I had not thought of people being chosen to hear the whispers. I had thought, perhaps, that the characters who have heard the whispers or seen hallucinations are the ones who are in the most distress at that moment. I keep remembering Jack seeing his father and how Jack had not slept for 3 days and was suffering great emotional distress - but that was a vision, and not whispering, so perhaps they are two separate phenomena.
Yes, we miss Kateq468!
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:15:36)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I looked up the I Ching symbols on the Dharma logo: Starting at 12:00 and going clockwise: Fire, Earth, Wind, Heaven, Water, Thunder, Mountain and then Lake.
Thanks Zenmaster... it all makes sense when you deciphered the pairs...... makes me wonder which persons on the island might be paired with someone else for each theme.
by: Sayiditisntso (35 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="4" Day="7" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Apr 07, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
WARNING! PET SUB-THEORY POST FOLLOWS: " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Lately, I've been seeing a lot of so-called "Spoiler" posts that have to do with the "smoke"......
STOP HERE IF YOU THINK THIS MIGHT BE A "SPOILER"!!
OK...I've looked at the "smoke" many times...and, it isn't smoke. It's many "particles" which seem to act in concert. Looks like nanobots to me. Or at least what I imagine "nanobots" to look like. There are rumours going 'round that the kid who plays Walt has let on that this "smoke" can infect people, influence their thinking and so forth, via openings in their skin. Didn't Day (formerly of Sun) predict the same in an older article of WIRE of future capabilities in nano-technology? I know the idea of nano-tech is hugely dismissed on the boards. Can someone tell me why? Back_Gammon? This would seem to fall in your area, I would think?
by: Corvus23 (19 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="21" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 21, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I'm not sure where to lump Sawyer in. It is clear that he is a man consumed with his destiny of tracking down the man that ruined his life. Ironically, he chooses to follow his destiny in the bar and kill the guy who he thinks is Sawyer. (In this way he is kind of the antithesis of Luke Skywalker - he chooses his destiny and gives in to the dark side.)
Update on my fatalism/determinism point that probably interests only me -
Sawyer is deported, so he would clearly fall into my fatalist camp.
Also, Hurley and Locke nearly miss the flight for various reasons and somehow fate allows them to catch the plane.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:16:43)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 24 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>08:30 PM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Sayidisntso, nuhhh uhhhh, no nanobot theories in my head, nor in my academic background. Oops, I just remembered studying Greg Bear's "Blood Music" in a chaos theory seminar. Whether "Blood Music" has anything to do with Lost or not, :>" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> it's still a highly recommended read. A total classic. Click on these links, and I'm sure you will agree. In fact, it could be the blue print for anyone wanting to do a nano type story.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 15, 2005
sayidisntso --
so you heard some of the craziness that started yesterday with the big spoiler? man, i was watching that since the dude posted it and it's had something like 400+ replies. it's as crazy as that "hatch's side entrance" thread. the guy made a LOT of claims, and the scary thing is, they really almost fit. one of his plot spoilers was that the other actually morph into the black smoke -- this is why danielle knows the smoke and others are connected but is vague about why -- and the smoke infects people through open wounds -- causing them to hallucinate, hence the voices and visions. any amount of the smoke will do it, so you don't have to see the smoke to become infected (which doesn't seem to jive). anywho, this is the dreaded sickness.
now.
nanobots seem more likely to me than physical flesh morphing into sinister smoke. as far as i know i know, even pseudo-science doesn't explain morphing smoke-people.
there's a lot more to his vast knowledge -- he claims to being currently sued for his devotion to blabing. he also promised to be back on the forum tonight and is suspiciously absent.
our question is -- if smoke is black, it is not clean burning and is the result of an organic reaction, something carbon based (we think?). so could the smoke be a by-product or exhaust from something both organic and mechanical? like something techno-organic? this may explain the "creature" and it's black smoke and how it's able to move the way it does. also, remember what i said about chernobyl ... if dharma was experimenting with this kind of lifeform, the radiation and/or magnetic force of the island may have caused it to evolve in unforseen ways.
if the black smoke is techno-organic, is it possible that the organic part of the machine reproduces and is burned off to create energy, thereby fueling itself?
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Lost as in lost v. gain, not lost v. found. I think that the show is about winning and losing, not being lost and found. Locke gains the use of his legs, Jack loses his father, Michael loses his son, Charlie gains his freedom from drugs, etc. Maybe the island is an experiment in a zero sum game. Whenever someone wins, or gains something, someone else loses, always maintaining equilibrium. Isn't this the essence of the yin-yang?
Hi Corvus, you've got some interesting ideas about fatalism/determinism. I think that Locke's and some of the other character's thinking is very dualistic in that they see things in terms of either fate or determinism - black or white - gain or find - win or lose.
However, I see the characters and events as being somewhat more dynamic. I think these dualities, or opposites if you will, are always in play, always in tension, and the outcome always remains undecided. The important thing is that the opposites are in dynamic play. A way to visualise this is to imagine two pencils, say one is black and one is white, and each is tied to an opposite end of a foot long piece of elastic rubber band. Forces are constantly pulling on each pencil and the elastic is always stretched, or in tension. But the pulling force is never constant on either pencil. Sometimes there's more force applied on the black pencil, so it tugs harder at the white pencil. And back and forth and so on. Does this make sense? Just my opinion for what it's worth.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:18:14)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
by: Justin_Case_ (60 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="3" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Mar 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Just don't name a post like this Quantum Theory when it really has absolutely NOTHING to do with Quantum Theory! You make all of us Physicists get heart burn. And I get plenty of that working in the field already!
PS: Malox Plus is the BEST! Personally, I like the quick dissolve tablets! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Goodmorning! Thanks all for the welcome!
Jenny n Manny the whoa hoooo made me think of Lao Tzu's Hua Hu Ching (pronounced wha hoo jing). It is a book that was passed orally from master to student because it was banned, and copies were burned. As Brian Walker tells "Were it not for the Taoist tradition of oral transmission of sacred spcriptures...they would have been LOST forever."
Made me think I better look up the numbered texts.
FOUR Every departure from the Tao contaminates one's spirit. Anger is departure, resistance a departure, self absorption a departure. Over many lifetimes the burden of contaminations can become great. There is only one way to cleanse oneself of these contaminations, and that is to practice virtue.
What is meant by this? To practice virtue is to selflessly offer assistance to others, giving without limitation one's time, abilitites, and possessions in service, whenever and wherever needed, without prejudice concerning the identity of those in need.
If your willingness to give blessings is limited, so also is your ability to receive them. This is the subtle operation of the Tao.
(Interesting that the word departure is used. The Losties departured from the Seoul Gateway (soul gateway?)
Obviously I am biased as to their spiritual journeys.
Going in another thought direction pertaining to smoke and Mr Ecko (sp?): Remember reading Snowboarding to Nirvana. When Master Fwap and his pupil were in the cave. They built a fire and Fwap starting chanting a mantra which echoed in the cave to drive out bad spirits? Then they meditated and astrally projected into other dimensions.
I'm wondering if Mr Ecko (sp?) has anything to do with the Losties connecting back to other dimensions (reconnecting with their soul)?
Namaste Z
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:19:48)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 25 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>08:56 AM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Just don't name a post like this Quantum Theory when it really has absolutely NOTHING to do with Quantum Theory! You make all of us Physicists get heart burn. And I get plenty of that working in the field already!
PS: Malox Plus is the BEST! Personally, I like the quick dissolve tablets! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Justin Case, I'm sorry we're giving you heartburn. I can't speak for everyone, but many of us come from a social science academic background more so than a physics background. Some of the theories in the social sciences are informed by quantum theory, along with numerous other cross-disciplinary theories, and thus our conversation. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="30" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 30, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Everyone " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I've really enjoyed reading the new posts since I was last online, some making me really think and some making me chuckle (threadmaster, Lol). Thank you especially Back_gammon for taking over for me in welcoming people and responding -- jenny_n_manny as well. Unfortunately I have only a small window of time here to comment, so here're a coupla (sometimes it feels so liberating to butcher English) basic thread-maintenance things I've been wanting to say
(1) Anyone who is new to this thread or viewing it for the first time -- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go back to the beginning and review everything discussed thus far. -- It is essential to understanding what I (we) mean when I say "quantum theory" and "illuminati" and "alchemical goals", etc. -- It is important to look and see what has already been discussed first before posting something that may be repetitive. There is a lot of information to digest and a lot of research has been done by everyone to add to the discussion -- please respect that and take a look at it first. -- It's also important (to me) for people to note that, essentially, the current theory of this thread is unchanged from what is stated in my very first post and the following few pages. It can be amended now perhaps and made more specific in areas following new info in the last few episodes, but basically it's the same. -- Everything that has followed has been hypothetical exploration and a delving into the myriad possibilities by the posters on the thread, and that is all. We've been trying to narrow down likely scenarios and look at the plot from as many angles as seem logically reasonable, but as of yet I think (other than having fun) we have not progressed the actual theory much. Because the show's progression is so slow, the attitude here is that the more we learn about all of these different areas the quicker we'll be able to identify possible direction with each new episode. We're all having a great time looking at things from each of our unique perspectives, and respectfully discussing the things that interest us about Lost with open minds to what everyone else has to say.
(2) I can only speak for myself here, but I'm approaching this the way I tend to approach most things. There are basic assumptions I'm making,with full knowledge that even they could be questionable, and then from that framework looking at the clues and "evidence" and attempting to identify logical possibilities while simultaneously discarding ones that seem the most unlikely. I'm a big fan of Ockham's Razor, meaning that I will generally always think in terms of the simplest single explanation for something before moving on to more complicated and involved ones. This doesn't mean that I don't entertain and explore even far-out possibilities (obviously -- that's part of the fun), but that when it comes to the actual theory I'm hesitant to make any additional amendments until the evidence seems sufficiently strong. So my assumptions include (FYI):
-- there was indeed a plane crash -- there is no supernatural involvement in the classic sense -- until the simplest explanations are ruled out, they are the most likely direction to look for answers (eg. until it is an absolute certainty that time travel must be involved, it is most reasonable to assume it is not. It would make more sense to conclude there is a yet-to-be-revealed linear explanation for the presence of the front-loading washer/dryer rather than for that one clue alone to lead to a positive assumption that there must be time traveling) -- the character's perceptions and statements are not to be unquestioningly trusted -- the information gleaned from writers'interview comments, etc., is essentially trustworthy and should be given weight (although acknowledging though that they are not necessarily above red herrings). Also to be considered are their personal areas of interest in terms of literature and other media. -- UNTIL time-travel conclusively enters the pic it seems reasonable that the technology or pseudo-science involved likely is restricted to what was possible given the time frames indicated in the show. So if the technology for certain things was years and years in the future from the time when Hanso built the island compound (like human cloning and self-replicating nano-bots which we still don't have the tech for even in 2005), then they're in the highly unlikely category for plot explanation (though still possibilities). If time travel becomes a certainty, then that of course will change. -- no "spoiler" information from the rest of the board should be trusted until the source is independently verified (but it can/should be discussed of course). It's a pain in the arse, but I always track down the actual source interviews, etc. before full-on believing statements like, "the writers have said..." or "This is a picture of...". -- okay, I know there are some others but I can't think of'em right now. Does anyone have any suggested basic assumptions that we seem to have in this thread?
Okay that's about it for now. Wish I had more time to individually respond to everyone's posts but hopefully I will before I go out of town (plus I have a couple of ideas I want to bounce off everyone). There's some good stuff there " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>And I hope this post doesn't sound preachy or anal -- not my intention -- I just wanted to try to add some structure into the thread since it's getting super long now and I know there are going to be people who don't know the "back info" or who don't look at the full thread.
Okay well, thank you everyone again for being so awesome! It's going to be tough not being able to add to the thread while I'm gone...
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:22:47)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 25 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>10:19 AM
by: kateg468 (159 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="30" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 30, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Justin Case, I'm sorry we're giving you heartburn. I can't speak for everyone, but many of us come from a social science academic background more so than a physics background. Some of the theories in the social sciences are informed by quantum theory, along with numerous other cross-disciplinary theories, and thus our conversation. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I absolutely agree! "Quantum" is not a term restricted to physics, and although we have discussed particle physics in the thread as well as string theory and quantum chaos, it is also applicable to micro-level studies in many, many other disciplines. The connection initially made between the I ching and quantum theory is unquestionable, hence the thread title.
Well put Back_gammon " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Kateq468, I love and agree with your "state of the thread" post. I will try to be the friendly Walmart door greeter in your absence, and I will specifically point to or paste your state of the thread post in any replies I make to newcomers.
When you get back, perhaps a new thread (part 2 perhaps) should be initiated, as this one is getting so long? I'm wondering if you might post the "state of the thread" on the new thread's first page, and also include a link back to this page. Just a thought.
Oh, btw, I dug out my old Meyers Briggs and also took the short one on the web. I'm an ENTJ. (Field Marshall {yuck! is that really me? " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>} rare, less than 2% of population) I hope we can still be friends -I think the main thing is that we share N & T!
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
i agree that our theories are restricted to developing as the show develops, sort of a bummer since we are going to have a good three weeks of waiting until we receive new info from the actual show. i also agree that we should try to, as much as we can, apply basic logic. time travel, for instance, has no basis -- yet. there are all manner of reasonable explainations for many of the losties circumstances and until there's a giant red neon sign (haha, it'll never happen like that in this show) i think we can pretty much rule out time travel.
having said that, i will be the first to acknowledge that i still wonder about alternate reality issues.
to clarify, supernatural in "the classic sense" means ... monsters? ghosts? i know that the writers have said that the plane crash was not an accident, and something like magnets are not a supernatural source. so what else can we rule out for now -- supernaturally?
i also fully agree that SPOILER THREADS ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
let's just agree to inform each other. i've learned so much about the I Ching and so many other things that, even if they do not play into the plot of lost, my personal database of knowledge has been positively expanded. know what i mean jelly bean?
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:24:06)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 25 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>11:27 AM
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
FOUR Every departure from the Tao contaminates one's spirit. Anger is departure, resistance a departure, self absorption a departure. Over many lifetimes the burden of contaminations can become great. There is only one way to cleanse oneself of these contaminations, and that is to practice virtue.
What is meant by this? To practice virtue is to selflessly offer assistance to others, giving without limitation one's time, abilitites, and possessions in service, whenever and wherever needed, without prejudice concerning the identity of those in need.
If your willingness to give blessings is limited, so also is your ability to receive them. This is the subtle operation of the Tao.
(Interesting that the word departure is used. The Losties departured from the Seoul Gateway (soul gateway?)
Obviously I am biased as to their spiritual journeys.
Going in another thought direction pertaining to smoke and Mr Ecko (sp?): Remember reading Snowboarding to Nirvana. When Master Fwap and his pupil were in the cave. They built a fire and Fwap starting chanting a mantra which echoed in the cave to drive out bad spirits? Then they meditated and astrally projected into other dimensions.
I'm wondering if Mr Ecko (sp?) has anything to do with the Losties connecting back to other dimensions (reconnecting with their soul)?
Namaste Z
i find this really fascinating because -- anger (locke) resistance (jack) self absorbtion (sawyer) to cleanse oneself from contamination, practice virture (sayid)
To practice virtue is to selflessly offer assistance to others, giving without limitation one's time, abilitites, and possessions in service, whenever and wherever needed, without prejudice concerning the identity of those in need.
aside from being the only way humanity in general will survive, this is why the "hippie" society of our original losties has been successful. it it also the journey that the leaders of the group have taken and/or embraced -- with the possible exception of kate, i'm not convinced she's so gung-ho to be altruistic.
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
i find this really fascinating because -- anger (locke) resistance (jack) self absorbtion (sawyer) to cleanse oneself from contamination, practice virture (sayid)
To practice virtue is to selflessly offer assistance to others, giving without limitation one's time, abilitites, and possessions in service, whenever and wherever needed, without prejudice concerning the identity of those in need.
aside from being the only way humanity in general will survive, this is why the "hippie" society of our original losties has been successful. it it also the journey that the leaders of the group have taken and/or embraced -- with the possible exception of kate, i'm not convinced she's so gung-ho to be altruistic.
way cool, zenmaster.
J n M, I like how you put the characters into the 4th message of Hua Hu Ching, the Unknown Teachings of Lao Tzu.
Here are the other texts:
EIGHT I confess that there is nothing to teach: no religion, no science, no body of information which will lead your mind back to the Tao.
Today I speak in this fashion, tomorrow in another, but always the Integral Way is beyond words and beyond mind.
Simply be aware of the oneness of things.
(Interesting interdependence of religion (faith) vs. science)
FIFTEEN To the ordinary being, others often require tolerance. To the highly evolved being, there is no such thing as tolerance, because there is no such thing as other. She has given up all ideas of individuality and extended her goodwill without prejudice in every direction. Never hating, never resisiting, never contesting, she is simply always learning and being.
Loving, hating, having expectations: all these are attachments. Attachment prevents the growth of one's true being. Therefore the integral being is attahced to nothing and can relate to everyone with an unstructured attitude. Because of this, her very existence benefits all things.
You see, that which has for is equal to that which is without form, and that which is alive is equal to that which rests.
This is the subtle truth, not a religious invention, but only those who are already highly evolved will understand this.
(There are no "others")
SIXTEEN Most of the world's religions serve only to strengthen attachments to false concepts such as self and other, life and death, heaven and earth, and so on. Those who become entangled in these false ideas are prevented from perceiving the Integral Oneness.
The highest virtue one can exercise is to accept the responsibility of discovering and transmitting the whole truth. Some help others in order to receive blessings and admiration. This is simply meaningless. Some cultivate themselves in part to serve others, in part to serve their own pride. They will understand, at best, half of the truth. But those who improve themselves for the sake of the world--to these, the whole truth of the universe will be revealed.
So seek this whole truth, practice it in your daily life, and humbly share it with others. You will enter the realm of the divine.
(The mention of self and other: Measuring particles vs. waves, and how the "observer" affects the experiment, as she's part of the experiment.) (Interdependence of life/death -- Buddhist thought, reincarnation, "living" in different dimensions, the Bardo plane?) (Duality of heaven and earth, Christian though of creating heaven on earth?)
TWENTY-THREE The highest truth cannot be put into words. Therefore the greatest teacher has nothing to say. He simply gives himself in service, and never worries.
(We are all limited by our language. Words describe ideas and concepts, but are they "real?" Read The Diamond Sutra: Transforming the Way we Perceive the World.) (Again service is the greatest virtue, and is a common theme in many eastern as well as Western religions)
FORTY-TWO Nothing in the realm of thoughts or ideologies is absolute. Lean on one for long, and it collapses. Because of this, there is nothing more futile and frustrating than relying on the mind.
To arrive at the unshakable, you must befriend the Tao. To do this, quiet your thinking. Stop analyzing, dividing, make distinctions between one thing and another. Simply see that you are at the center of the universe and accept all things and beings as parts of your infinite body.
When you perceive that an act done ti another is done to yourself, you have understood the great truth.
(Maybe I should stop analyzing Lost themes?)
Namaste Z
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:24:58)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 25 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>03:16 PM
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
zenmaster,
manny really wants to read the entire thing. any idea where i can go to be further enlightened? maybe one of the texts that you recommended?
wow, that was really amazing and wonderful stuff. very similar to the personal doctrine manny and i have come to through years of searching.
but i really loved your connection in terms of the "others". there's always 2 sides to every story. i think i mentioned before (but maybe not here) that it would be a great plot twist if even the others are not what we assume they are. B_G pointed out that he thinks there are several groups of others. i think this is a sound theory and the "others" we saw walking may not necessarily be the "others" who so violently killed the tailies.
i also think the concept of "one" is an underlying theme in lost. this is one of the sociological aspects i love about the show -- just like the stand. also as you noted, the interdependence of religion and science. there is a vast difference between faith and religion. lost has more to do with faith -- i think. and hope.
thanks so much for the information. really awesome how it all adds up, even if it's happenstance. i perfer to think, like locke said, everything happens for a reason.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:26:53)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 25 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>06:00 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Jenny N Manny,
Brian Walker's Hua Hu Ching, The Unknown Teachings of Lao Tzu was published by Harper San Francisco, and written in 1992. He lives in BoulderColorado! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Lao Tzu's teachings are very inspirational to me too!
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Unfortunately I have only a small window of time here to comment
I am so glad Kate per her expanded 2 cents worth in before her vacation/trip! I have a suggestion all. One way to keep the thread shorter is if you quote only the sentences you want to respond to, not the entire message from the previous person. I liked the reference to a text about Others being one of us, what a good and possible text. The boat scene of the others has alot of resemblence (I think) to the people they are facing.
Also theory of the identiy of the Other with the Teddy bear. We all speculated on who that child was. I reviewed the scenes preceding it and it was Jin letting a little boy into the hotel to go potty and losing his job for the little boy. My bet is this little guy who had to go *** might be little boy now on the island. And karma will be KIND to Jin.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:28:46)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: southerngal2870 (2 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="6" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 06, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
All I can say is HOLY CRAP!!!! Your theories, however far fetched they may be, are awesome!!! You've made me see things in a different life. I'll have to go back and rewatch the first season on DVD again, just to catch some things I missed.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:29:26)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 26 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>03:57 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Good afternoon all!
Here is a little more food for thought. A link to the synopsis of The Tao of Physics.
I especially like "Now, all the laws of atomic physics are expressed interms of probabilities. The author argues further in this direction and states that quantum theory reveals the basic oneness of the universe."
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
which one is Stay? we never get out
Here is Roger Ebert's Review of the movie Stay. Just came out here on west coast and I loved it. I thought it was eerily like our message board and some of Lost!
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Ok here is my take on of our basic premise of the hatch Swan Station. I cannot confirm seeing the lab coats in the hatch, only in the orientation movie. The hatch seems to me focused on one very old monolithic computer that scientists like mY dad used to get all excited about. The very earliest computers roughly of that time period were so expensive and exciting only a few scientists had them and would put on a lab coat just to operate it or talk about it counting and stuff. It seems to be one of the partially wonderful and partly terrifying mythic computer database. Maybe it has the database of the entire human race. Maybe it grew an artificial consciousness. Maybe it has psychic abilities. That old "Hello Hal" movie comes to mind where the computer is developing a brain.... and goes whacko taking over the world (I cannot remeber name just "Hello Hal"). An early whacko computer on the island could cause incidents and be making the monsters. Perhaps the numbers repeated are its food to keep it quiet or stabilized. Maybe you have to touch it every 108 minutes so it could tap into your brain and energy. Just keep in mind the old computer is running all this time. it might be the thing reaching out via the radio etc etc etc and bringing in the plane all on its own...
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:31:52)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 26 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>08:07 PM
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
the movie you're thinking of is 2001, funny you should mention it. the computer isn't trying to take over the world, but it does start to kill off everyone in the spaceship it runs ... because, in the end, it says it's scared and doesn't want to die
by: nz_lost (9 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="26" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 26, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
i am relatively convinced this theory has great stability and good logic...however... ABC makes television for the masses (of which great proportions are not intellectual creatures) so i struggle to accept that this is all gonna be revealed as a quantum-physics story any time soon as so many people would go "huh???" and tune out.. which is the absolute last thing the network wants...
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
the movie you're thinking of is 2001, funny you should mention it. the computer isn't trying to take over the world, but it does start to kill off everyone in the spaceship it runs ... because, in the end, it says it's scared and doesn't want to die
2001. Loved that movie! But by far the better man vs. computer AI is THE MATRIX triology!
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
2001.
Thanks Guys. 2001 was the movie I meant about the computer vibes I was getting down in that hatch plus another old movie with a more power hungry computer.
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I rewatched the Episode Adrift tonight and finally heard the significant comment that Desmond made to see if Locke was "The One." Desmond asked Locke: "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?" (This riddle was actually illustrated in episode 1 in a drawing given by Michael to Walt. Answer in episode 1 was "freeze".)
As a repeated image: 1) Note it contains the word 'other' - 'the other snowman' 2) Note use of the word 'freeze' - is usually about water as mentioned on this show - does Taoism and Quantum Theory cover 'freeze' on a higher level i.e. can the snowman "code" to us mean don't change? don't melt? stay put? stay solid? stay real?
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
i am relatively convinced this theory has great stability and good logic...however... ABC makes television for the masses (of which great proportions are not intellectual creatures) so i struggle to accept that this is all gonna be revealed as a quantum-physics story any time soon as so many people would go "huh???" and tune out.. which is the absolute last thing the network wants...
nz -- i agree that what we're discussing here is a tv show, the same box through which we watch "mom swap" and "big brother". i do think, however, that these particualr writers are of a new breed. it's entirely likely that much of our speculation will never come to light or to relevence, but 1) it never hurts to hope (and i'm an astros fan) and 2) it sure does make the show supercool, doesn't it?
here's my theory about creativity. being a writer, i picture things very visually. i am also a believer in the great unconscious -- i always picture it as a great vaporous pink cloud always floating about our heads. creative folks "funnel" from the cloud. this is just the way i picture it -- always have, since childhood. what i have found, as a writer, is that the story isn't yours. you don't own it. it owns you. that's why sometimes writers just can't tell you how something they're writing ends. they just don't know yet, and it is revealed in the course of writing the story. naturally, i'll make a stephen king reference here -- in his opus, the dark tower series, the number 19 has great significance on multiple levels. king began the story when he was very young, and the first book and the seventh book span 30 years. at some point he had an outline, but he lost it. nevertheless, the 19 is is EVERY book, even the ones he wrote before he knew about 19.
lost has a lot of really wonderful connections to archetypes and manny and i always come back to that. i was trying to find my archetype lists, actually, to more closely examine the characters. anyway, it's just cool how these theories work, even when they may not have been the intention of the writers. maybe some of it is the intention of the story.
out there, i know. but i believe it.
hope you continue to check our thread and speculate ... and also to check us if we seem off-track!
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:33:29)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
(This riddle was actually illustrated in episode 1 in a drawing given by Michael to Walt. Answer in episode 1 was "freeze".)
One of the things that delights and amazes me most is how we each pick up on such a wide variety of clues from the show.
On another note, I've finally located a concisely worded essay that describes the Santiago Theory of Consciousness. (Hooray! I don't have to go dig through boxes in the basement for my notes.) Not only does it describe the Santiago Theory, but it provides an excellent (and miraculously brief) gloss of problematic Western scientific theories of consciousness.
I think Santiago theory provides an intersection of several strands of thought emerging in this thread. My thinking has not been informed by a deep study of the Tao as has many of yours, I'm still on the School-house rock of Tao pages, but Santiago Theory provides a way to express similar, yet not identical, concepts.
If anyone has time, would you please take a look? Even if you're not interested in Santiago theory, the gloss of western scientific thinking seems very dead-on.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
here's my theory about creativity. being a writer, i picture things very visually. i am also a believer in the great unconscious -- i always picture it as a great vaporous pink cloud always floating about our heads. creative folks "funnel" from the cloud
Agreed. Writing a story is more like being some sort of cosmic conduit than anything else. It's as if the story is already written somewhere out in the ether and you just sit there, shut out all the noise from the conscious brain , and let the story come out through your fingers. There is a more precise name for the place stories come from, but I can't think of it. It's a place that is not waking, not sleeping, more like alternate meditative plane, but it is very very real.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Agreed. Writing a story is more like being some sort of cosmic conduit than anything else. It's as if the story is already written somewhere out in the ether and you just sit there, shut out all the noise from the conscious brain , and let the story come out through your fingers. There is a more precise name for the place stories come from, but I can't think of it. It's a place that is not waking, not sleeping, more like alternate meditative plane, but it is very very real.
well put ... you must be a writer " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
soon as my son is asleep i'm gonna check out the site you mentioned (have i told ya'll that my son's name is locke? yup, but he's 3, so no one cane say i named him for the show -- but he is named for the "original" john locke, who is manny's hero)
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
well put ... you must be a writer " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
but he is named for the "original" john locke, who is manny's hero)
Don't write much fiction anymore...but it sure paid a lot of my grad school expenses in the form of awards, scholarships, and the like. Later, I grew frustrated writing stories that were applauded by literary critics, but didn't generate enough money to pay the mortage. And I never had the ability to write a best seller type of novel, ie genre fiction, detective thrillers, murder mysteries, that sort of thing.
A couple of my friends moved from writing literary stuff to sucessfully writing noir novels, and that genre sort of intrigues me. Maybe it's all the slipping around in seedy motels, the dead bodies that turn up in the alleys behind the nightclubs, and the detectives that alway notice the runs in a woman's stockings ...nah... what I really like is there's always an ashtray full of unfiltered cigarette butts stained with crimson lipstick...
your son's name is Locke - how cool is that!
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:36:03)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
the basis of my honors thesis is critics and popular writers.
it breaks my heart to hear you don't get to write much anymore. i understand the attraction to noir -- king just did his own "noir" novel. i have a fascination with lipstick on a still smoking cig, too. great visual. instant mystery.
if you ever got anything out there, i'd love to check it out (unless you'd rather not disclose).
people told me all last season, "jenn, you have to watch this show lost, you would love it!" but it came on at 7, wednesday, and i had class until 6 and then my boy to deal with. towards the end of the season i caught wind of one of the names of the main characters: locke. manny and i did a major double take. then we heard his whole name was john locke, and that was the end of that. we started watching reruns when they began and then bought the season as soon as it came out.
since i'm a "jennifer" and manny's a "manuel" we wanted a meaningful and unique name for our son. guess my son will probably have some company now though.
more info than you needed. sorry." onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
the basis of my honors thesis is critics and popular writers.
OT Sounds really interesting, Jenny n. Have you narrowed down your focus to a thesis statement yet, or are you still mulling things over?
I don't think any of my stuff is up on the web, I mostly published in literary magazines before everything went digital. Don't know if that's good or bad. Some stuff I was really proud of. Other stuff - eeeuww stinky. LOL.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:38:02)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 27 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>05:17 PM
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
OT Sounds really interesting, Jenny n. Have you narrowed down your focus to a thesis statement yet, or are you still mulling things over?
also OT:
no i haven't narrowed it down, and it's a major source of stress (good stress, you know?). i am just fascinated about the effect critics have on the "success" of writers, and who winds up "canon" anyway. i think a lot about dickens, whom the critics hated. and what college student doesn't take semester after semester of dickens' novels? or under the volcano by malcolm lowry. his editors and "advance" critics freaked out about that book until lowry himself wrote what amounted to a novella explaining how awesome his book was. they changed thier minds real quick-like, and the NYT praised his book as "one of the towering novels of all time". of course, it all goes back to king; the critics hate him, the people love him, and time will tell. time will make him the only author we'll remember in this century a hundred years from now (i'm generalaizing, but you get my drift).
anyway, narrowing my topic and how to begin are 2 things i agonize over. i have yet to speak to my 2 fav profs at school, and i hope they can help. i'm excited to start writing it; grad school is so very close.
i think it's truly awesome you had stuff out there, especially stuff you were happy with. i run a writer's workshop, and rule one is "finish what you start". we're so often unhappy with what we create -- our own worst critics.
not trying to hijack my fav thread, but i'm always happy to talk to other writers! lit in many forms is my passion (after manny and locke) and it's why i'm attracted to lost.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:40:11)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 27 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>05:19 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
G Xer,
Good catch on "freeze." Just makes you think about the states of water--solid, liquid and gas. Basically I am going down the path of transformation on this "code," and how we are to transform ourselves and reunite with the "One." Didn't Desmond ask Locke "Are you the One?"
Regarding spiritual transformation, Asmit Goswami, Ph.D. in the Physics of the Soul writes "I call this journey inner creativity because consciousness moves inward to discover that the ego has no self nature apart from Being, a deep unity. A branch of psychology, transpersonal psychology, is involved with this spiritual dimension of ourselves and how to facilitate it. Here we talk about self realization, the realization that we are actually the universal quantum self, the atman, that we have the real freedom of the Holy Spirit to which we occasionally surrender our limited free will."
Everyone has the innate capacity to create. Creativity empowers us to make choices. Our power to make choices enables us to shape our lives, our communities and ultimately, our world.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Everyone has the innate capacity to create. Creativity empowers us to make choices. Our power to make choices enables us to shape our lives, our communities and ultimately, our world.
you STAND on that soapbox, man. there should be more people who do.
self-realization makes me think back to carl rodgers, the man credited with the creation of client-centered therapy; he rebelled against his freudian training to develop CCT and developed the self-actualization theory: "the directional trend which is evident in all organic and human life -- the urge to expand, extend, develop, mature -- the tendency to express and activate all the capacities of the organism".
robert johnson's 5 steps to becoming your true self: 1. recognize your call, or unique destiny 2. align your life with this call by following the mystery and asking tough questions about the meaning of your life 3. seek to become a person of value, not just success 4. dare to be unmasked and authentic before the world 5. risk becoming a co-creator in the healing of the world
all very archetypical; the lost characters are all very archetypical, too.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:41:10)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 27 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>05:52 PM
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
This is just so funny! After posting here about transformation, I just got lectured about string theory transformation on the I Work for For the Dharma Project Thread! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
This is just so funny! After posting here about transformation, I just got lectured about string theory transformation on the I Work for For the Dharma Project Thread! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Namaste, Z
That is funny, Zenmaster. That whole thread is a hoot. LOL
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hey Jenny and all -- I agree that this show is best as if it comes from the unconsious
I can't take credit for remembering the snowman saying freeze in episode I. I thought Desmond talking to the person he thought "The One" was important to our thread so researched the snowmen on other bulletin boards then brought it here. Zenmaster, I am totally with you, the code answer might be "there is no other snowman, we are all one snowman" or "I seek a self nature apart from being the other Snowman" / as long as they are frozen they are separate but when they mel the water will merge and they will be one / water has so many connotations " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Oh yeah, I was also fascinate by the eleaborate star/sun image on the bag that contained the stuffed polar bear that Michael gave Walt as a child.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
someone in one of the SK topic threads had a great idea -- betcha the stations (swan, etc) are arranged in a circle. betcha whatever is in the middle is the ... well, to reference SK, the "clearing at the end of the path". i think it would have to be the others.
wouldn't a circular formation fit into what we've discussed here?
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
someone in one of the SK topic threads had a great idea -- betcha the stations (swan, etc) are arranged in a circle. betcha whatever is in the middle is the ... well, to reference SK, the "clearing at the end of the path". i think it would have to be the others.
wouldn't a circular formation fit into what we've discussed here?
Hi Jenny n manny, I think that idea might have some merit. However, wasn't there a circle picture such as that in the questionable video that surfaced? I'm still a little skeptical of anything that might have arisen as a result of the video. Still, you never know. BTW, what is an SK topic thread?
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:41:46)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 28 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>11:01 AM
by: SocialLeviathan (27 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="27" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 27, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Whew, I just spent a LOT of time reading about a quarter of this thread. Very good stuff. I'd like to add a few things.
1.) Nanotechnology. I have read Prey by Crichton and that would explain the "security system," would it not? Invisible, or just some black smoke. Very good idea.
2.) Electromagnetism. If there were nanorobots, how could they be controlled?---Magnetism. While magnets could not pull Locke into the hole, invisible nanorobots controlled by magnets could.
3.) Parapsychology. I like the Zen and other such research done. I imagine that you all are correct that some of the "supernatural" stuff will be explained through the use of chaos theory, etc. In the mean time, I think it is obvious that Walt was desired because he has parapsychology abilities. I think this has been proposed already, but if the Others are the original scientists, they would want Walt to study him. Or, they may have known he could control certain things and be an aid to them somehow.
4.) Illuminati. I disagree with Kate when she said that the director's references to the Illuminati are actually references to the story and plot of the RAW book. I think the directors and writers took a cue from RAW and are using the notion that numbers and symbols carry inherent meaning and significance to create the Lost TV series. Indeed, isn't that what this thread is all about, the meanings of the numbers and symbols in Lost. For some people (Lost writers, perhaps), the fact that others are so interested in symbols and numbers is more interesting than the symbols and numbers themselves. I think everyone agrees there is no basis that the researchers were part of any group that RAW had involved in the illuminati. No nazi connections here.
5.) Arrow. Whoever said that the Apollo bars may be cures for the sickness may have been on to something. The cinematographic shots seemed to place a large emphasis on who ate the candy bars. Also, remember Kate stuffed a ton of them in her pants when she first went down the hatch. I guarantee they will come up later.
6.) Phoenix. I have seen another version of the myth of Apollo and am quoting it here:
Cygnus, the swan, is one of the the two birds (Aquila, the eagle, is the second), which are hunted by Hercules. Yet it seems that the two birds were lucky and have escaped. It is assumed that these birds (together with a third one, the Vulture - nowadays the constellation Lyra) represent the Stymphalian Birds - one of the tasks of Hercules. (See: Peterson Field Guide to the Stars)
I think the swan may represent Jack. Here is why:
Cygnus, the swan, was not always a swan. Greek legend tells a tragic story of Apollo's son, Phaeton, who tried to drive Apollo's chariot across the sky. Apollo warned him not to drive too close to the Earth lest he set it on fire. Phaeton lost control of the wild horses, and to spare the Earth a fiery destruction, Zeus threw a lightning bolt at the young boy, killing him instantly. The horses climbed higher into the sky, scorching a path that became the Milky Way. Phaeton fell into the river Eridanus. Cygnus dove repeatedly into the river to try to retrieve the body of his friend but failed. Zeus was so impressed with Cygnus' devotion to his Phaeton that he turned him into a swan, enabling him to dive more easily. Cygnus was eventually rewarded for his gallantry by a prominent place in the summer skies within the cloudy path of the Milky Way.
Remember Jack dove repeatedly for Boone. (Would that make Boone's father Zeus?) Anyway, it would make sense if Desmond were Jack's counterpart, the Phoenix. He did have a phoenix on his shirt. . . I have no idea what that might mean, it is just a thought.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:43:39)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 28 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>11:31 AM
by: SocialLeviathan (27 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="27" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 27, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
What was I smoking? That (Desmond=Phoenix) makes no sense.
Anyway, after reading some more posts (and spending a lot more time on this than I meant to) I also wanted to point out anyone can make any numbers do anything if you are allowed to add, multiply, divide, cut, paste, convert to letters, etc. you can come up with a gazillion connections to a gazillion irrelevant things. The question is what have the numbers specifically meant something to somebody or some group in the past, not what other numbers could you create with the numbers that are given.
"IMO, the most interesting "signs" are the books, because they are researchable and can provide distinct and definite clues. The numbers could mean something, or nothing at all. And other references to myths are probably helpful if they can be figured out.
"I think the numbers only provide clues where people have given them meaning in the past. For example, the number 42 is now significant because it was referred to in the Douglas Adams' book, Life, the Universe and Everything and was the answer to the meaning of life--as you all have probably already discussed, the irony was, that no one knew what the question was any more. Prior to Adams, no one would have given 42 any more meaning than 49 or 41, but because of his humor, people associate 42 with the meaning of life.
"That reminds me, that was Umberto Eco's ultimate theme or point in Foucault's Pendulum, where the narrator was searching out meaning in numbers, was convinced they had occultic forces in them, then realized that they had no meaning except that which humans attributed to them as signs."
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi SocialLeviathon, welcome to the thread! Our wonderful thread-master, Kateq468 is going to be away from the boards for a short bit, so on her behalf I'm here to welcome newcomers. In case you missed it, (yikes! this thread is getting long and there's a lot to read) I'd like to point you to a "state of the thread" post Kate q468 made a couple of days ago shortly before she left.
We come from varied academic backgrounds on the thread so I think you'll find a lot of respectful and serious discussions here. Don't get discouraged if you don't get immediate feedback for a post. As you've probably noted, we all tend toward rather long and thoughtful posts, and sometimes we (me!) have to think and chew on new stuff before we reply. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hmm, rather than point, I'll just cut and paste Kate's message below.
Hi Everyone
I've really enjoyed reading the new posts since I was last online, some making me really think and some making me chuckle (threadmaster, Lol). Thank you especially Back_gammon for taking over for me in welcoming people and responding -- jenny_n_manny as well. Unfortunately I have only a small window of time here to comment, so here're a coupla (sometimes it feels so liberating to butcher English) basic thread-maintenance things I've been wanting to say
(1) Anyone who is new to this thread or viewing it for the first time -- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go back to the beginning and review everything discussed thus far. -- It is essential to understanding what I (we) mean when I say "quantum theory" and "illuminati" and "alchemical goals", etc. -- It is important to look and see what has already been discussed first before posting something that may be repetitive. There is a lot of information to digest and a lot of research has been done by everyone to add to the discussion -- please respect that and take a look at it first. -- It's also important (to me) for people to note that, essentially, the current theory of this thread is unchanged from what is stated in my very first post and the following few pages. It can be amended now perhaps and made more specific in areas following new info in the last few episodes, but basically it's the same. -- Everything that has followed has been hypothetical exploration and a delving into the myriad possibilities by the posters on the thread, and that is all. We've been trying to narrow down likely scenarios and look at the plot from as many angles as seem logically reasonable, but as of yet I think (other than having fun) we have not progressed the actual theory much. Because the show's progression is so slow, the attitude here is that the more we learn about all of these different areas the quicker we'll be able to identify possible direction with each new episode. We're all having a great time looking at things from each of our unique perspectives, and respectfully discussing the things that interest us about Lost with open minds to what everyone else has to say.
(2) I can only speak for myself here, but I'm approaching this the way I tend to approach most things. There are basic assumptions I'm making,with full knowledge that even they could be questionable, and then from that framework looking at the clues and "evidence" and attempting to identify logical possibilities while simultaneously discarding ones that seem the most unlikely. I'm a big fan of Ockham's Razor, meaning that I will generally always think in terms of the simplest single explanation for something before moving on to more complicated and involved ones. This doesn't mean that I don't entertain and explore even far-out possibilities (obviously -- that's part of the fun), but that when it comes to the actual theory I'm hesitant to make any additional amendments until the evidence seems sufficiently strong. So my assumptions include (FYI):
-- there was indeed a plane crash -- there is no supernatural involvement in the classic sense -- until the simplest explanations are ruled out, they are the most likely direction to look for answers (eg. until it is an absolute certainty that time travel must be involved, it is most reasonable to assume it is not. It would make more sense to conclude there is a yet-to-be-revealed linear explanation for the presence of the front-loading washer/dryer rather than for that one clue alone to lead to a positive assumption that there must be time traveling) -- the character's perceptions and statements are not to be unquestioningly trusted -- the information gleaned from writers'interview comments, etc., is essentially trustworthy and should be given weight (although acknowledging though that they are not necessarily above red herrings). Also to be considered are their personal areas of interest in terms of literature and other media. -- UNTIL time-travel conclusively enters the pic it seems reasonable that the technology or pseudo-science involved likely is restricted to what was possible given the time frames indicated in the show. So if the technology for certain things was years and years in the future from the time when Hanso built the island compound (like human cloning and self-replicating nano-bots which we still don't have the tech for even in 2005), then they're in the highly unlikely category for plot explanation (though still possibilities). If time travel becomes a certainty, then that of course will change. -- no "spoiler" information from the rest of the board should be trusted until the source is independently verified (but it can/should be discussed of course). It's a pain in the arse, but I always track down the actual source interviews, etc. before full-on believing statements like, "the writers have said..." or "This is a picture of...". -- okay, I know there are some others but I can't think of'em right now. Does anyone have any suggested basic assumptions that we seem to have in this thread?
Okay that's about it for now.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:44:33)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 28 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>12:05 PM
by: SocialLeviathan (27 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="27" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 27, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I'm here to welcome newcomers.
We come from varied academic backgrounds on the thread so I think you'll find a lot of respectful and serious discussions here. Don't get discouraged if you don't get immediate feedback for a post. As you've probably noted, we all tend toward rather long and thoughtful posts, and sometimes we (me!) have to think and chew on new stuff before we reply. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Thanks for the welcome. I honestly tried to read the entire thread and probably spent an hour getting through the first 1/3. I will diligently read the rest later.
I like the thoughfulness of those involved in this board. I hope that I will be able to contribute to the discussion.
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I think the swan may represent Jack.
Hey, Thanks for more research on Apollo & Cygnus.... I did not see strong connection between Jack & Cygnus simply for the diving incident though. I'd be looking more like for 2 people who are best friends, one who messed up the quantum nature. I thought it was messed up in the past as the Swan station is named after it. I would think the "best friend" would be an old man by now. But hey.
On the station circle theory, I have read an interview or article that said the producers will never let the survivors make it around the island or find out how big it is, supposing thats what it is, ever, so that may discount the theories of the stations being in a circle. (you can't develop a circle if you do not disclose or know the diameter). all these stations are sort of overload on the brain, possible red herrings.
THmm, does that mean the island might be a chimera then.... the boundaries ever changing ? That Reminds me of Homer's Odessey -- clashing rocks and moving islands, Sirens, (red herrings), kidnappings, and such. hey that is good description of chaos too.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
On the station circle theory, I have read an interview or article that said the producers will never let the survivors make it around the island or find out how big it is, supposing thats what it is, ever, so that may discount the theories of the stations being in a circle.
darn, you're right, i read that too. but i am still convinced that the others are not what we assume they are. we were saying on some other post that the Black Rock can't have crashed before 1866 (the invention of dynamite). is it so impossible to imagine that the others are surviving ancestors of those who crashed the first time, all those years ago? it would explain why they know the island and don't leave tracks, etc. and i don't think it was a slave ship, more likely a ship transporting prisoners to australia ...
i miss you all! every other post has become a cycle of decent idea, idea shot down by really rude people, rude people versus original posters, any real discussion lost in the sounds of intolerence ... sometimes they are even good ideas.
hope you are all well!
-------------------------------------------------------------- What does my right eye see?
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:45:13)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 30 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>12:16 AM
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I guess we are the Tao types, we would wish everyone well! Namaste ! you guys are always the best/ you give me some good laughs too Jenny and others. when is Kate gettting back?
by: dylan_1200 (206 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Nice job all. Ive been looking into synchronicity for months now but only recently been able to put the theory of it into perspective with the show. I havent had the gusto to post a thread because of its many facets that have to be re-interpreted into the programme.
Anyways...some things that will help.
Damon quoted on Eonline as saying 23 was always an important number they had in terms of the scheme of the show and if you had ever read anything by Robert Anton Wilson you can basically extrapolate from there.
RAW writes about the '23 Enigma' and its re-emerging pattern in todays society based on his belief, to do with the illuminati. He also goes on to say his theory needed more research into Carl Jungs idea on 'Synchronicity'.
Now only recently did Javi post on the fuselage that the REAL question is whether we look at coincedence or....synchronicity. I was really happy when I found that little doozy. A confirmation if you will...straight from the horses mouth. Basically Synchronicity means 'Everything happens for a reason'...hmmm sounds familiar. A couple of examples in life:
- When you get your last paycheck after leaving your job...and another opportunity pops up
- Thinking about an old friend at breakfast..and they call out of the blue that afternoon
I wont go into every aspect of it...that would be like trying to wrap the story of The Matrix up in one post but.....suffice to say there are a gazillion things happening on the show related to this idea.
- Rose 'knowing' Bernard is still alive - Walt reading about polar bears than...presto - Michael saying he'd look for Vincent when the rain stopped....and it stops - Hurley making the flight against all odds - Charlies guitar.... the heroin...etc etc
The list goes on. But heres one more thing for you on this school of thought. Synchronicity traverses everything from alchemy & astrology to quantum physics & religion. The psychiatry side of it talks about the 'shadows, beasts or demons' we try to repress, the things that have happened in our past. These 'demons' cannot be contained or suppresed and have thier own cosmic energies that need to be released and need to be faced if we want to become whole.
I theorised then that the 'demons' the survivors have in their lives is what terrorises them from the jungle. While ousted for the closeness this has with purgatory...wasnt it funny that Boones dream showed the 'beast' kill Shannon and yet it was her death that gave him relief. His letting go was allowed to happen through his demons fulfilling the desire to destroy that which caused him pain.
And yes, Shannons loss of Boone has probably allowed her to face hers. It might be time for her to go.
Its a great school of pseudoscience to explore. So for the lesser quantum academics of us, here is an introductory link for the lehmans. And lastly check out stings lyrics to the song 'Synchronicity'. He is a big follower of Carl Jung. Happy hunting.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:46:06)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 30 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>02:48 AM
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Suggested Homework Assignment - everyone go see the new movie out called Stay. It has a whole lot of basic Quantumizing.
G Xer, Went to see Stay. Awesome movie. Thanks for the recommendation! Really liked the Bob Hoskins scenes and the bridge scene. I don't want to give away any of the plot for the other (LOL) posters until they've had a chance to see it. But you were definitely on track with the quantumizing. I guess its a matter of the possibilities and then collapsing on the "one."
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Now only recently did Javi post on the fuselage that the REAL question is whether we look at coincedence or....synchronicity. I was really happy when I found that little doozy. A confirmation if you will...straight from the horses mouth. Basically Synchronicity means 'Everything happens for a reason'...hmmm sounds familiar.
Hi Dylan, thanks for your insights and input. I was particularly intrigued to read the quote from Javi about coincidence and synchronicity. To me, his statement seems deliberately ambiguous and designed to keep the discussions going. LOL. I'll have to go check it out.
At the moment, I am working on a couple of tangent projects. Lately I've become obsessed with Montand/Montaigne and why he lost his arm. I've created a preliminary backstory hypothesis for his character. I can't believe I'm creating hypotheses for a character that has only been mentioned in one sentence. Is this obsession or what? LOL
Another tangent project that will perhaps be more useful to the thread than my obsession with Montand/Montaigne is the construction of a "man behind the curtain" thingie. This thingie will detail some real world entertainment business considerations that we should perhaps keep in mind as we formulate theories. Also to be included in the thingie, since there are several narrative writers on this thread, it might be useful to pool resources and devise a list of likely plot and character requirements and strategies. (Example: keep the character conflicts going as long as possible.)
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
it might be useful to pool resources and devise a list of likely plot and character requirements and strategies
ZenMaster, glad you liked Stay!
Back_Gammon, We may as well write the whole show, LOL! hah ha ha don't worry if your thoughts seem out there at first. I thought mine was way out there researching Cygnus based on the definition of "swan" in the dictionairy at first, until the name Apollo popped up with his name. I usually have a thought, then wait and sleep on it to see if there is any syncronicity.
Dylan, Great find on that there is a Syncronicity theory!!
-------------------------------------------------------------- What does my right eye see?
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:47:17)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 30 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>09:24 AM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Back_Gammon, We may as well write the whole show, LOL!
OT That would be way cool, except I don't have the talent and I don't think people would like the direction I'd take the show. I don't think most folks are as intrigued as I am by the Danielle character and all of her science team's shenanigans when they ran aground on the island 16 years ago. LOL
Say, here's a thought. I could draft a spinoff about Danielle, the science team, and that pesky one-armed Montand/Montaigne guy. And let's see...maybe cast Johnny Depp (yeah right like he's got nothing else to do) as Montand/Montaigne...
Wheeee! Gotta quit dippin into the Halloween candy. I am too silly to be on the thread today.
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
some new info for you all:
Episode 2.08: "COLLISION" - WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 23 (9:00-10:00 p.m., ET) -- Violence erupts when Ana-Lucia and her group stumble upon the other castaways. (Ana-Lucia- centric)
Episode 2.09: "WHAT KATE DID" - WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 30 (9:00-10:00 p.m., ET) - As Kate's backstory continues, her original crime is revealed. Locke and Eko make an interesting discovery about the film, and Michael has a mysterious encounter with the computer. (Kate-centric)
thought it might be appreciated! be back on later because i really want to respond to some of the great stuff ya'll posted!
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
george
Hi all!
I'm not familar with George. Please explain.
Also, GXer, check out the PBS link below regarding String Theory. Go to the third column, The Wild West of Physics and click on Chapter 3 and Chapter 6. Images of the steps make me think of many of the scenes in Stay.
If you go further into Chapter 7, the shape of Cern's atom smasher is the same shape as the Dharma logo. Interesting....
Also, Jenny I found another Lao Tzu book of mine. The Wen Tzu. Here is the message from text 4
"Lao-tzu said:
Sagehood has nothing to do with governing others but is a matter of ordering oneself. Nobility has nothing to do with power and rank but is a matter of self realization; attain self realization, and the whole world is found in the self...."
Namaste, Z
-------------------------------------------------------------- What does my right eye see?
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:49:45)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 31 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>07:19 AM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I'm not familar with George. Please explain.
Mornin' Zen,
"George is the post eating monster. Sometimes you just have to tickle his throat by replying to a post that disappeared (you can find them in a Flat View) and he will give them back... In all seriousness, sometimes your post doesn't show up in the thread that you posted it in. If that happens, go to the main page, select Flat View, find your post, select it, hit reply and type a nasty message to George in the body of the post - post it, and your post will magically reappear."
I got this explanation from a wonderful and helpful website that is a must for all Lost fans.
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I'm not familar with George. Please explain.
Mornin' Zen,
"George is the post eating monster. Sometimes you just have to tickle his throat by replying to a post that disappeared (you can find them in a Flat View) and he will give them back... In all seriousness, sometimes your post doesn't show up in the thread that you posted it in. If that happens, go to the main page, select Flat View, find your post, select it, hit reply and type a nasty message to George in the body of the post - post it, and your post will magically reappear."
I got this explanation from a wonderful and helpful website that is a must for all Lost fans.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Lost Narrative Logic Essentials (In Progress)
I'm just noting a few real world facts and extrapolating a few essential story requirements that might be useful when postulating hypotheses and theories about Lost. Most of this stuff we already know, but it's often good to keep restating the obvious. (At least it is for me. It's easy for me to get lost in the minute details. Ex: Montand/Montaigne's missing arm. LOL " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>)
Show business (emphasis on business.)
1. Lost is aired on mainstream major television networks and is owned by Disney Company. 2. Lost is viewed around the globe by viewers from many different countries - thus, I don't think we'll ever see anything that would offend or alienate a very broad and diverse audience base. Shock, perhaps, but not offend. Further, the show will not come down definitively in support of one religion, faith, culture, etc.to the exclusion or derision of another. 3. Lost is intended to run for 4 or more years. The writers and producers may continue to try to keep fans actively seeking to solve the puzzles off balance as long as possible. That may well include releasing confusing or ambiguous statements about the show. 4. The Lost producers have stated that they've already filmed (during first season) an ending for the show that will answer the main questions - just in case the show gets cancelled abruptly - they didn't want to leave viewers hanging. However, since we don't know if they will periodically film other "emergency" endings as the show progresses, this fact might not have any bearing upon our theories. 5. ????
Story/Plot Requirements (Things the story must have if it is to comply with the items mentioned in the business requirements above, and assuming viewers continue to watch because the characters and story are interesting.)
1. The central mystery, what is the island and perhaps what does it all mean, will not be revealed until the last episode, perhaps. As small mysteries are revealed, others must replace them. Better yet, the seeds of the next mystery must already have been planted. Otherwise the show cannot run its intended four or more years. 2. Characters emotional lives may follow traditional trajectory arcs, or their emotional lives may resemble pendulum swings. However their emotional lives manifest, they will remain in a dynamic state of tension, evolvement or de-evolvement, perhaps until the show's ultimate conclusion 3. Some of the show's central themes (ie science v faith) may continue and/or must be supplemented/replaced with additional deep issues that will allow for further plot develoments and character conflicts. 4. Whatever is happening on the island, it must have some basis in science or pseudo science. The science may be complex, and be glossed for a general audience with a simplified, perhaps even inaccurate depiction, but it must be real world science or pseudo-science. 5. Some or all of the characters will continue to lie through their teeth, be evasive, follow their own agendas, etc, until the story's conclusion. Often the character's words will be in conflict with their actions. This is a narrative device that develops tension. Actions are often the most honest. 6. ???
Jenny n Manny, anyone else, please chime in and I'll edit or amend the list.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:50:32)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Oct 31 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>12:03 PM
by: jenny_n_manny (154 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="15" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 15, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
hey ya'll and happy halloween (we neopagans say "merry meet and blessed be", which pretty much means "hope everyone is spiffy".) today is a pretty big day for crazy heathen like me (she says, tongue firmly held in cheek) so i have a bunch to do -- also this is my son's first real trick-or-treat. BUT BUT BUT i love your synopsis B_G and i really think that constant remineders of what we DO know is going to be the key to unlocking mysteries. i want to reply, but i'll have to get back on later. until then ..! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: SocialLeviathan (27 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="27" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 27, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I have read the posts and I am weary....
May I present a more lighthearted argument for the proposition that somehow we are dealing with parallel worlds? (sounds funny to say it, but that is what we are discussing here, right?)
In the pbs quote about wormholes there is discussion about the use of "exotic matter" which is negative energy to keep a wormhole open.
The wormhole theory would fit the proposition that either the Losties are in a parallel universe, or are at or near some sort of "crossroads" of universes, which would fit some of the major themes of light and dark, making choices that affect your future path, etc. Perhaps the chaos numbers that are entered into the computer are a sort of key that allows for the electromagnetic transmission of "exotic matter" according to the pattern of the pattern of the key so that the wormhole stays open....
Other evidence of parallel worlds: Dark Tower by Stephen King - In the book the Dark Tower is a nexus for multiple universes; Three Policeman by Flann O'Brien - The narrator traverses a weird parrallel world; Turn of the Screw by Henry James - Only the protaganist can see certain things that exist, but others do not see; Watership Down by Richard Adams - Plot is told from the point of view of rabbits who often cannot see or comprehend those things that to us are the most basic or obvious; Wrinkle In Time by Madeline L'Engle - Witches travel through time and space in a way similar to that proposed by wormholes; Hominids by Robert Sawyer - Plot revolves around the clash between the world as we know it and an alternate world where neanderthals survived. The best I can do with Robert Anton Wilson's Cosmic Trigger sereis is to say that clearly, Robert Anton Wilson was describing a weird and alternate reality (sort of like the Third Policeman).
One final point/rant/question: Where did the idea that there are "six constellations in Apollo" come from? It seems baseless except that it is repeated so many times. Apollo was the sun god. There are 88 constellations in the sky. Mythologically speaking, there are stories where Apollo, the Arrow, and the Swan are connected. But these are the only constellations referenced specifically by the show. Where did these other constellations supposedly come from? There are more than just four other constellations referenced in stories related to Apollo. These are the ones I found (besides the crater and corvus): Hydra, http://www.coldwater.k12.mi.us/lms/planetarium/myth/Hydra.html Eridanus, http://www.coldwater.k12.mi.us/lms/planetarium/myth/Eridanus.html Delphinus, http://www.coldwater.k12.mi.us/lms/planetarium/myth/Delphinus.html
Let's use the aforementioned Occam's razor to rule out Corvus, Crater, Orion, and Orphucus until we actually see Dharma symbols of those constellations.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:51:37)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Oct 31 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>05:01 PM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Social Lev, You've been doing your homework! Actually, I think peyote or some sort of hallucinogenic plant growing on the island would be a tidy way to explain a lot of the weirdness. It could be growing near their water source and tainting it without anyone actually knowing it - well, maybe Charlie might catch on, that little druggie. I'll have to watch and see if he's slurping back more water than necessary to quench normal thirst. But I do think that viewers would feel a little cheated if the weirdness had a cause so seemingly mundane. LOL
As for parallel universes and multiverses - over my head and out of my league. I'm just the friendly door attendant, after all. (We miss Kateq468, our brilliant threadmaster!)
Still, like most good door attendants, I always keep my ears wide open - I just live for juicy gossip - and I can comment on the six constellations of Apollo origination. My best take on where and how it originated was that the hive mind on the ABC boards (and perhaps other boards as well) got going on Apollo candy bars a couple weeks back, and then next thing you know, voila, the six constellations of Apollo.
When I did some digging on my own, I could not come up with a clear association between the six chosen constellations and Apollo. It seemed more or less arbitrary to me. Nevertheless, I've only been on the boards a month or so, and perhaps the hive mind has archival knowledge that made those particular constellations click in place. So, who knows? Time will tell.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:53:59)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
by: zenmaster5280 (58 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="23" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 23, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Good morning all,
Really enjoyed the Synchronicity Theory. All things happen for a purpose. Also interesting to think about the Celestine Prophecies tangent along those lines. All the losties in their bardos plane with their respective angelic groups....
Social, I'm with you on the other dimension thought. However I'm not from a scientific background at all. See my limited knowledge on the I Work For the Dharma Project. LOL!!! I want to answer KentaroWashio and tell him I received the brochure (not!) and am having Ed Witten do the math! LOL!!
My other dimension isn't so literal as another dimension described by Kentaro. IMO the other dimension is consciousness and each character's relationship with it, whether it be spiritual or scientific. Obviously I like to see character development, i.e., transformation.
Assuming for a moment that synchronicity actually exists, all the things on Lost that appear coincidental can instead be viewed as the great cogs of cosmos clicking together and making the appropriate thing happen to people exactly when they need it, and to put them in the places they need to be at a certain time.
Locke is obviously the one in touch with the universal powers of synchronicity, though not entirely, which is why he keeps saying stuff like "this isn't what was supposed to happen!" and "this is my destiny!". He is almost "individuated", as Carl Jung would have put it. Conversely, Jack is the one completely out of touch. source.pitchblank
As I put it its a school of thought on a scheme of the show not a magical answer to everything. Any thoughts on application to the show would be appreciated. Carl Jungs ideas does have many links to the symbolism of astrology and the sun.
Interesting to then note that Apollo(sun god) was a twin(theres that twin word again) and born on the island of Delos (a mythical floating island) protected by circling swans. The story is a little long but worth the read.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:55:26)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Nov 01 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>08:55 AM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Good morning Social Lev, something tells me you've got a wicked mad sense of humor just dying to burst forth, and that sometimes you struggle to contain it. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
...and....
Good morning Zenmaster and Dylan, Thanks for including that link to Javi's quote, Dylan. Whaddya think about the 'lage? Some pretty good posts over there sometimes.
Here's my thoughts on synchronicity/coincidence. I'm not agreeing with synchronicity, nor am I disagreeing. I'm just throwing out my humble thoughts for consideration.
1. It may be true that everything in the universe happens for a reason. But we as humans are limited to what we can know and see. Our perception is very "human-centric" so we may not always know or see the logic of why something is happening. Ex: Locke when he gets frustrated.
2. It may also be equally true that coincidence just happens and there is no reason for anything. Again, we are limited by our very perceptions and our human need for things to make sense. Most people like for the world to make sense. Many want to feel that they are part of something larger than themselves. And most of all, people like pattern. Our brains almost seem hardwired to look for and find it. We will find pattern in almost anything. Extreme Example: people who see the face of jesus on a piece of toast.
My best guess, and it's just my humble opinion, is that the producers and writers will keep the synchronicity/coincidence dialectic open and ongoing for as long as they possibly can. Just like they'll keep the science v faith opposition going.
OT Shout out to Jenny n Manny: did you have fun tricky treating?
OT I probably won't be on the boards much until later today. I'm going to head downtown to pay my last respects to Rosa Parks, that is if they don't have all the roads blocked off and I can find a place to park within a mile. Otherwise, I'll be standing along Woodward Ave tomorrow as the funeral procession passes.
by: SocialLeviathan (27 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="27" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 27, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Good morning Social Lev, something tells me you've got a wicked mad sense of humor just dying to burst forth, and that sometimes you struggle to contain it.
Thanks for noticing! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:56:31)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Nov 02 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>11:46 AM
by: goofball_Lt_G (35 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="11" Day="2" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Nov 02, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Wow Oh Wow!!! I Have to say I am thoroughly impressed by all the information provided by (dz8egc),(Kateg468) and many others in regards to I-Ching, Quantum Physics/mechanics, Taoism, Chaos theory, Numerology, DNA sequencing, parapsychology etc.
Until now I thought it was just a TV show. Now I see the massive amounts of intellegence that may be going into the show and I am so grateful. No wonder I like the show, I like when things are backed by smarts and not by stupidity (like most other shows).
I'd like to add one more detail that got my brain going after watching "The Orientaion" episode. In the film it also mentioned Magnetic fields and the Islands unique qualities. I learned by watching Nova's 'Magnetic Storm' on PBS that the Earths magnetic field is currently in a phase of decline in preperation for a massive magnetic 'Flip'. It has resulted in long occuring magnetic fluctuations located in the south pacific region. Where is the Island located? How many planes and ships have crashed there because of navigation problems?
So let's do some math here, fluctuations in the Earths magnetic field + Quantum physics/parallel universes + parapsychology + Tao/ I-Ching = one heck of an interesting Island to crash land on.
A show with this kind of intellegent background + great charactors and charactor development = The best prime time drama on TV.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Goofball, welcome to the message boards. We really appreciate your kind words and compliments.
I really enjoyed reading your post. It shows that you've given LOST a lot of thought. I think the magnetism you mentioned might be a big feature in the story's unfolding.
In case you missed it in an earlier post, our brilliant threadmaster, Kateq468, is going to be away from the boards for a short time, but on her behalf let me welcome you to the thread. Kate has asked me to point newcomers to a post she made just before her trip. Read and enjoy and enjoy LOST! We look forward to hearing from you again soon. Here's Kate's post:
Hi Everyone
I've really enjoyed reading the new posts since I was last online, some making me really think and some making me chuckle (threadmaster, Lol). Thank you especially Back_gammon for taking over for me in welcoming people and responding -- jenny_n_manny as well. Unfortunately I have only a small window of time here to comment, so here're a coupla (sometimes it feels so liberating to butcher English) basic thread-maintenance things I've been wanting to say
(1) Anyone who is new to this thread or viewing it for the first time -- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go back to the beginning and review everything discussed thus far. -- It is essential to understanding what I (we) mean when I say "quantum theory" and "illuminati" and "alchemical goals", etc. -- It is important to look and see what has already been discussed first before posting something that may be repetitive. There is a lot of information to digest and a lot of research has been done by everyone to add to the discussion -- please respect that and take a look at it first. -- It's also important (to me) for people to note that, essentially, the current theory of this thread is unchanged from what is stated in my very first post and the following few pages. It can be amended now perhaps and made more specific in areas following new info in the last few episodes, but basically it's the same. -- Everything that has followed has been hypothetical exploration and a delving into the myriad possibilities by the posters on the thread, and that is all. We've been trying to narrow down likely scenarios and look at the plot from as many angles as seem logically reasonable, but as of yet I think (other than having fun) we have not progressed the actual theory much. Because the show's progression is so slow, the attitude here is that the more we learn about all of these different areas the quicker we'll be able to identify possible direction with each new episode. We're all having a great time looking at things from each of our unique perspectives, and respectfully discussing the things that interest us about Lost with open minds to what everyone else has to say.
(2) I can only speak for myself here, but I'm approaching this the way I tend to approach most things. There are basic assumptions I'm making,with full knowledge that even they could be questionable, and then from that framework looking at the clues and "evidence" and attempting to identify logical possibilities while simultaneously discarding ones that seem the most unlikely. I'm a big fan of Ockham's Razor, meaning that I will generally always think in terms of the simplest single explanation for something before moving on to more complicated and involved ones. This doesn't mean that I don't entertain and explore even far-out possibilities (obviously -- that's part of the fun), but that when it comes to the actual theory I'm hesitant to make any additional amendments until the evidence seems sufficiently strong. So my assumptions include (FYI):
-- there was indeed a plane crash -- there is no supernatural involvement in the classic sense -- until the simplest explanations are ruled out, they are the most likely direction to look for answers (eg. until it is an absolute certainty that time travel must be involved, it is most reasonable to assume it is not. It would make more sense to conclude there is a yet-to-be-revealed linear explanation for the presence of the front-loading washer/dryer rather than for that one clue alone to lead to a positive assumption that there must be time traveling) -- the character's perceptions and statements are not to be unquestioningly trusted -- the information gleaned from writers'interview comments, etc., is essentially trustworthy and should be given weight (although acknowledging though that they are not necessarily above red herrings). Also to be considered are their personal areas of interest in terms of literature and other media. -- UNTIL time-travel conclusively enters the pic it seems reasonable that the technology or pseudo-science involved likely is restricted to what was possible given the time frames indicated in the show. So if the technology for certain things was years and years in the future from the time when Hanso built the island compound (like human cloning and self-replicating nano-bots which we still don't have the tech for even in 2005), then they're in the highly unlikely category for plot explanation (though still possibilities). If time travel becomes a certainty, then that of course will change. -- no "spoiler" information from the rest of the board should be trusted until the source is independently verified (but it can/should be discussed of course). It's a pain in the arse, but I always track down the actual source interviews, etc. before full-on believing statements like, "the writers have said..." or "This is a picture of...". -- okay, I know there are some others but I can't think of'em right now. Does anyone have any suggested basic assumptions that we seem to have in this thread?
Okay that's about it for now. Wish I had more time to individually respond to everyone's posts but hopefully I will before I go out of town (plus I have a couple of ideas I want to bounce off everyone). There's some good stuff there And I hope this post doesn't sound preachy or anal -- not my intention -- I just wanted to try to add some structure into the thread since it's getting super long now and I know there are going to be people who don't know the "back info" or who don't look at the full thread.
Okay well, thank you everyone again for being so awesome! It's going to be tough not being able to add to the thread while I'm gone...
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:57:28)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Nov 02 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>07:51 PM
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Perhaps the chaos numbers that are entered into the computer are a sort of key that allows for the electromagnetic transmission of "exotic matter" according to the pattern of the pattern of the key so that the wormhole stays open....
Bingo --- exactly my thoughts the open portal theory. he he he.
Zen Master thanks for the links to steps in string theory.
I am fascinated to hear Apollo has a twin and born on an island associated with Swans. Got to read that one.
I am back from my own 2 day vacation. Glad to see all the work going on Kate's going to be so proud.
by: dylan_1200 (206 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Heres a link to the story of Apollo and Artemis, God of the sun - Goddess of the moon: If you scroll to the sub heading of his birth you will find the story.
Also an interesting link on the alchemical symbols of gold. Notice there is one with the exact oceanic logo symbol with the 16 circles around a centre circle. I would assume the oceanic logo bears the symbolism of the sun and the perfection of all matter.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Dylan, thanks for those great links. I especially liked the links to the alchemical symbols. I'm still obsessed with Montand/Montaigne's missing arm - and I'm looking for a symbol that sort of looks like an anchor thingy, but not quite.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Hi Corvus, I had noticed that about the Hanso logo. And I, too, been wondering if Marvin and Montaigne are one and the same. The biggest problem to resolve if they are to be one and the same is with the timeline, If Montaigne arrived 16 years ago with Danielle's team, that would be much later than the Dharma Initiative video which was copyrighted in 1980. However, this timeline problem could be resolved fairly easily if the copyright frames in the video were just part of an older video, along with some of the other older footage. That video was sliced and spliced, so it's very likely in my opinion that the copyright date of 1980 has no relation to when the Dr. Candle portion was made. And with the blacked out windows in the background, and with the cheesy props Dr. Candle has, the Dr. Candle portion could have very well been filmed on the island. Thus, Candle = Montaigne, at least right this second.
On the other hand, Danielle claiming to have killed everyone on her team could be somewhat problematic, if Montaigne were part of the team. But we don't know whether he was on the team or not. If Montaigne wasn't part of her team, he could then have been on the island for any length of time, and the timeline isn't a problem.
So unti we get more information, I'm tentatively secure in stating that Montaigne and Dr Candle are the same person.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:58:16)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Nov 03 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>09:34 AM
by: Corvus23 (19 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="21" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 21, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
The biggest problem to resolve if they are to be one and the same is with the timeline, If Montaigne arrived 16 years ago with Danielle's team, that would be much later than the Dharma Initiative video which was copyrighted in 1980. However, this timeline problem could be resolved fairly easily if the copyright frames in the video were just part of an older video, along with some of the other older footage. That video was sliced and spliced, so it's very likely in my opinion that the copyright date of 1980 has no relation to when the Dr. Candle portion was made. And with the blacked out windows in the background, and with the cheesy props Dr. Candle has, the Dr. Candle portion could have very well been filmed on the island. Thus, Candle = Montaigne, at least right this second.
Those are my thoughts exactly. He splices the video with new footage once he gets a hold of it after 1980. That grid like pattern in the background when he is speaking looks similar to the geodesic-type dome that is in station 3.
This opens up the possibility that "the incident" happened much later than the late 1970's.
As far as Danielle is concerned, her character seems to play with another tension that is apparent in the show - truth/decption. She is seemingly deceptive to distract them to take Aaron, yet the duality of all of the characters make me think that it would be too hasty to quickly dismiss her as a "liar".
I am still puzzled by her affiliation with Ethan. They were seemingly working together to swipe Claire and Charlie since she had the scratches on her arm. How did she know Ethan? Or more accurately, after Ethan took Claire, how did she come in contact with Danielle?
by: oldpolitico (240 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="6" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 06, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
So unti we get more information, I'm tentatively secure in stating that Montaigne and Dr Candle are the same person.
I'm in the other camp. I don't think there's much to indicate that Montainge and Candle are the same person. It's more likely that the connection is simply body parts. Three lost arms in the past and recently, Locke's kidney. For some reason, an unusually large number of people involved in the affairs of the island have missing parts, and the writers have made a point of emphasizing it.
This, combined with the "sickness", hints at one of the odd dangers of the island. Montaigne lost his arm in the DarkTerritory on the way back from the Blackrock, and someone else got sick, according to Danielle. While much of Danielle's story can be hard to believe, I don't see what ulterior motive she could have in blurting out that piece of information. We're only examining it because the writers made of point of having her say it. They also mentioned Candle's arm in interviews, so I tend to think it's significant. I watched it again last night and it did seem like a prothsesis.
But I'm going to look for something on the island that is a danger to arms, rather than try to figure out how Candle and Montaigne can be the same person.
Unless ... hm ... syncronicity. Could Candle have lost his arm because Montaigne lost his? Could Candle have been Viewing Montaigne when it happened?
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:58:55)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
by: oldpolitico (240 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="6" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 06, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Yes, the timeline is a problem, but as back_gammon pointed out, there are hints that the Candle portion of the film may have been added after 1980, and the writers have brought up the fact that the tape has lost portions from Desmond's splicings.
Does anyone know who might have put together a detailed timeline? I found one once, but it wasn't detailed enough. The writers have also said that the timeline is VERY important.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Old Politico, But I'm going to look for something on the island that is a danger to arms, rather than try to figure out how Candle and Montaigne can be the same person.
Wise move! I'm thinking Montaigne may have lost his arm while messing with that dynamite stashed in the Black Rock and that is now just sitting outside. What are your thoughts on this?
I admit that the assumption that Dr. Candle = Montaigne is based on pretty slim support. I'm totally laughing at myself because I've become obsessed with a character, Montaigne, who has only been mentioned in one sentence in the show. One sentence. LOL Still, for now, it's fun to speculate because the Montaigne character is pretty much wide open to imagination. He (or she!!) has not been complicated with too many paramenters and that's sort of refreshing - a bit of a break from Danielle, my other obsession.
Danielle's a real challenge. Have you been following the discussion over on the general board called "Danielle's timeline"? I've been posting on that thread quite a bit this past week or so, and Danielle's dialogue poses one logical conundrum after another.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi Corvus, This opens up the possibility that "the incident" happened much later than the late 1970's.
Indeed it does. Lots of speculation back and forth about whether Danielle was somehow part of the incident. I'm thinking yes, at the moment.
If you're interested in Danielle, check out the Danielle's timeline thread over on general board.
Also, there's a couple of island timelines/Danielle type timelines floating around over on general board - I have a problem with all of them, but can't yet put my finger on what's bothering me. I think some of them are in the titles thread.
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 13:59:46)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Nov 03 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>01:27 PM
by: JisLost (15 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="30" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 30, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Just a couple of things I've noticed doing a little research today after reading *most* of this thread.
On the HANSO site, under each "active project" there is an explanation that access is denied. The closing of each is "Thank you. Namaste. Good Luck." I looked up Namaste and got this definition:
For Hindu(s), the greeting of choice is "Namaste," the two hands pressed together and held near the heart with the head gently bowed as one says, "Namaste". Thus it is both a spoken greeting and a gesture, a Mantr(a) and a Mudr(a). The prayerful hand position is a Mudr(a) called Anjali, from the root Anj, "to adorn, honor, celebrate or anoint." The hands held in union signify the oneness of an apparently dual cosmos, the bringing together of spirit and matter, or the self meeting the Self. It has been said that the right hand represents the higher nature or that which is divine in us, while the left hand represents the lower, worldly nature.
It's not very "official" of a site but I looked at several and got similar definitions. This one was easier to understand.
Second, On the Dharma video, the Dr. mentions they are located at #3"the swan" and goes on to explain the electromagnetic properties of "that area of the island" or something like that. Makes me think there are "other" possible stations they haven't uncovered yet, hence the slightly different logo on Ana Lucia's clothes? I think that's her.
Third, I just looked at the Oceanic-Air site. And on the home page where there is a message saying the airline has closed, I have text over text that says this: "I survived a horrific plane crash and am stranded on an island somewhere Northeast of Australia and Southwest of Hawaii. In the event that I am never found, please forward word of my fate to my parents." Has anyone else seen that? I haven't seen it mentioned yet on the board, but I am pretty new so...
There is other text under there, but I haven't been able to see what it is.
And what is the deal with the traveler count at the bottom of the page for the flight? It isn't accurate because we know there were many more adults on there than what are listed. And the huge number of children?
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi and welcome, Jislost. You should find some good discussion on this thread about Hindu philosophy.
As for the Dharma video, it seems to be the consensus of the boards that possibly 6 stations exist on the island. The two that you mentioned, and four more, perhaps including one underwater.
Regarding Oceanic-Air website, that is a fun page, and has been up for a very long time, a year maybe, and was probably discussed in detail when it was new. Unfortunately, the boards only keep threads alive for 90 days, so a lot of the older discussion vanishes.
by: Corvus23 (19 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="21" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 21, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Quick thought on the orientation film:
Its presence inside the Swan Station indicates that those who are manning the station will need an introduction to Dharma, the project, etc. If you were actively sending replacements they would already know all of this information and not need an orientation video.
This may suggest that the button pushing really is a mind game for the first group, or that replacements will simply arrive to the island.
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Ok I am dying to know Back Gammon what was the sentence that has you going bananas? I only started watching second season.
I was fascinated watching the rerun last night by the mention of the scientists who had the vision, it was a man and his wife, according to the video, Hanso only came later to sponsor their idea/ what were their names? Have we already talked about them yet.
Also picked up one of their research projects was going to be a utopian model society, the word Utopian was spliced like crazy, meaning it is important, with the splices you have to fill in some of the word yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------------- What does my right eye see?
Rank:none
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Registered:10/02/2005
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(Date Posted:01/27/2006 14:00:38)
Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a directionfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Nov 03 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>06:15 PM
by: amyc111975 (59 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="5" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Oct 05, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
yeah, okay, so -- i don't think i'm going to read any other threads.
although i can see where everyone here is getting very very deep into some rather mindblowing scientific theories, you shouldn't discredit yourselves as being way off base from wherever the writers are taking us. after all, popular fiction writers like michael crighton introduced the general public to all sorts of scientific theory in reagrds to cryogenics, DNA replacement, etc. carl sagan did the same thing reagarding SETI and other projects. and stephen king will give you a mouthful of literary history and sci-fi theory if you know where to look. the Xfiles brought in all sorts of sci theory to the mainstream. most of all, movies these days SUCK. tv has found a door, wide open. they have discovered a new breed of watchers, a more intellctual and devoted group, who expect more than zombies or "it was all a dream" to be the answer to everything. even if you guys are beyond the truth, that doesn't mean you haven't brushed by it many times. if nothing else, we have all become enlightened -- and what's better than that?
this thread rocks. you guys are all out of my league -- we english majors stay away from the science building -- but i check this thread religiously.
Hear, hear, fellow English majors & minors! I totally agree with you. There are SO many interesting, plausible theories out there. Any of them COULD be a possible future direction for the show.
BTW, I am SO glad to find a popular intellectual thread out here for a change! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
What sentence is Back Gamm going bananas with? I know just enough French to look up a French concept or two.
What was the name of the Scientist couple man and wife who had the idea of the scientific research community? Listening last night Hanso was only the sponsor, Have we discussed the scientist couple yet ? if not we missed something.
scientific couple = had ideas of a scientific community including the heavily spliced word "Utopian" society.
Hanso = sponsor of above couple. Sponsors are usually not creative and usually have ulterior motives. In business world sponsors can be called angels but in TV they are usually bad buys.
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Okay, everybody, here's the sentence about Montaigne. (Danielle is the character that really has me going crazy - the Montaigne obsession is just for when I take a break from my obsession with Danielle. LOL
This is from Exodus, Part 1, Season 1 - the finale shows. Danielle is leading Jack, Locke, Hurley, Kate, and Arzt to the Black Rock so they can get some dynamite and blow the hatch open. Here it is:
Danielle: The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began - where my team got infected - where Montand/Montaigne [sp?] lost his arm. We must move quickly.
That's it. Only time he's ever been mentioned.
-------------------------------------------------------------- What does my right eye see?
by: Corvus23 (19 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="10" Day="21" Year="2005">Oct 21, 2005ate>
That's it. Only time he's ever been mentioned.
And yet on the other thread about Danielle (thanks for the referral by the way), you are able to pull together some amazing research about this character.
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005">Sep 22, 2005ate>
Okay, everybody, here's the sentence about Montaigne.
Thanks Curiousity is satisdied. Being self-professed dabbler in French, Consonents in French are often swallowed, it could end Montagne/Montonde/etc to our ears. Other boards note how Danielle botches her French accent a lot. Possible 2 Words: Mon means "my" My __ lost his arm Mon Tante would mean "My Aunt" - the wrong sex.
(Arse thinks "Montand" lost his arm, but he's an Arse - Arse is a very Shakespearean clown / Isnt there a Montague in Shakespear?)
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005">Sep 22, 2005ate>
Isnt there a Montague in Shakespear?
Wait I answer my own question. In Romeo and Juliet notice this passage.... very, very interesting....Arse led me to it.
JULIET 'Tis but thy name that is my enemy; Thou art thyself, though not a Montague. What's Montague? It is nor hand nor foot, Nor arm nor face, nor any other part Belonging to a man. O, be some other name! What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet; So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd, Retain that dear perfection which he owes Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name, And for that name, which is no part of thee, Take all myself.
Rank:none
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(Date Posted:02/04/2006 00:10:24)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: The Symbol -->Taoism --> Quantum Theory as a direction
Posted: Nov 04 @ ffice:smarttags" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>05:53 AM
by: back_gammon (1631 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="24" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 24, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Hi AmyC, English majors rule!
Hi pqato888, Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for the two quotes. I'm going to tape the Sherlock Holmes to my monitor.
Hi GenX, It is nor hand nor foot, Nor arm nor face, nor any other part Belonging to a man. O, be some other name
Walk away, GenX, Run while you still can! " type="#_x0000_t75" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Don't become addicted/obsessed by this Montand/Montaigne/Montague cypher as I have! LOL
by: GenerationXer (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: ate Month="9" Day="22" Year="2005" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Sep 22, 2005ate onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet;
Ok run I shall but note that in Romeo and Juliet, the Montagues were one of 2 clans, sound familiar, clans going bezerk killing eachother off and trying to escape their destiny. The "sickness" in Romeo & Juliet is clan insanity and destiny entrapment. Note in the passage, Juliet seemed to disembody the name Montague here into body parts. She was also way ahead of her time thinking of another quantum reality where Romeo was another name or a rose by any other name.... Oh and the mention of Rose by any other name... there is a Rose in the group. This was the top choice from Google search for "Montague Arse"
ffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>