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cac120Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5fficeffice" />?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comPosted:May 09, 2005 10:22 AMreply2022 PostsRegistered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PMBack to our other threads:Part 4:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=0&threadID=316067Part 3:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=0&threadID=293350Part 2, with the Episode Summaries, Links, Diary, Spoilers and Clues.http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?threadID=277771�Part 1:http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=0&threadID=241141Please note that Part 1 is likely to self-destruct on May 20.AdawhenRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5Posted:May 09, 2005 10:25 AMreply2008 PostsRegistered: Oct 17, 2004 03:14 PMA new Cac thread!YEAH!needcaffeineRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5Posted:May 09, 2005 10:27 AMreply1988 PostsRegistered: Jan 04, 2005 11:26 AMcac, part 2 is almost archived. I will start on part 3 next.BlackRock21Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5Posted:May 09, 2005 10:31 AMreply131 PostsRegistered: Feb 14, 2005 07:46 AMA - how about you start us off with a topic? sorta like when Linda Richman is vaclempt (sp?)on Coffee Talk?"I'll give you a topic... Locke is not good or evil... discuss amongst yourselves..."BlackRock21Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5Posted:May 09, 2005 10:32 AMreply131 PostsRegistered: Feb 14, 2005 07:46 AMdang it george!!cac120Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5Posted:May 09, 2005 10:33 AMreply2022 PostsRegistered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PMHi Ada, since you're around, perhaps you'd like to propose the first discussion topic for our new thread. Is there something we haven't thoroughly researched yet? Or something we've gone in the wrong direction on?I'm going to be away from the computer for a couple of days, so don't worry if you don't see me before Born to Run airs.I hope all your kids gave you a great Mother's Day yesterday!Need, thanks for archiving the threads.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5Posted:May 09, 2005 10:40 AMreply
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMMy last "big" post from the end of the Part 4 thread, posted this morning:Ada: They are volcanic ridges, since it is filmed on Hawaii, look into the geology of that island (Oahu) and you will understand what is going on on the LOST island. Since the South Pacific is also broken, basically, into two types of islands --- coral reef and volcanic islands, do a little research and you will get a clearer idea of where the castaways are!Thanks for the new clue, and homework, Ada!Well, after doing a little web research, I found out that Oahu is made up of two shield volcanoes.The island is the result of two separate shield volcanoes: Wai?anae and Ko?olau, with a broad "valley" or saddle (the central O?ahu Plain) between them. The highest point is Mt. Ka?ala in the Waianae Range, rising to 1,225 m (4019 ft) above sea level (Macdonald, Abbott, & Peterson, 1983).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oahushield volcano:A shield volcano is a wide volcano with shallowly-sloping sides. The name derives from a translation of "Skjaldbrei?ur", an Icelandic shield volcano whose name means broad shield, from its resemblance to a warrior's shield. Shield volcanoes are formed by lava flows of low viscosity?lava that flows easily. Consequently, a volcanic mountain having a broad profile is built up over time by flow after flow of relatively fluid basaltic lava issuing from vents or fissures on the surface of the volcano. Many of the largest volcanoes on Earth are shield volcanoes....Because of the fluidity of the lava, major explosive eruptions do not occur. The most severe explosions occur if water enters a vent, although expanding gases in the magma can produce spectacular fountaining of the low viscosity lavahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_volcanoIf we're talking about location of the Lost island then, if it is a shield volcano, then I'd look to the "Pacific Ring of Fire":The Ring of Fire is a zone of frequent earthquakes and volcanic eruptions that encircles the basin of the Pacific Ocean. It is associated with a nearly continuous series of oceanic trenches, island arcs, and volcanic mountain ranges and / or plate movements. It is sometimes called the circum-Pacific seismic belt.The Ring of Fire is a direct consequence of plate tectonics and the movement and collisions of crustal plates.You can read more and see a good image of what areas are part of the "ring". My guess is the Lost island is in the Kermadec Trench or Tonga Trench... first guess is the Tonga Trench. Am I right, Ada? Or is this something you can't confirm?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Ring_of_FireAlso found this interesting info about how plant and animal life end up on an island that wasn't formed by breaking off from a continent:If the island is cut off from the mainland by rising sea level, then mainland species are likely to be living on it from the start. If the island forms as a volcano or as a coral reef, there may be no plants or animals living on it to begin with, and any species that does get established there has to have come from somewhere else. Animals can reach an island by traveling on floating objects in the ocean, such as trees, floating logs, or reeds. Plants and birds can reach an island by air.http://school.discovery.com/lessonplans/programs/islandsMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 10:43 AM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMAda's responses to my geology post: Adawhen: BIG KISS! to MEandthesea!!Girl, I tell you, what a year!I actually led people to this back in December, but they couldn't figure this one out! You get one itty bitty clue, and you solve the whole enchilada. Great job.This will help you pinpoint an approximate area, and if you study the geology, you will be able to guess some of what will be coming up.You amaze me!,andAdawhen: ME, I just thought of something. In November I started writing a little adventure story for one of the regulars on the board, flysail. The thread he established for it is "Flysail/Claire". It is riddled with clues about the island, about the history, and about things that are coming up. Often, months in advance! You may want to take a look, because it will point you in certain directions.Have fun![/i/MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 10:46 AM reply
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1652 Posts fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMAnother clue Ada gave us recently:Her maps are specific to her, but NOT to you.You know several things already that she does not. Yes, you do. Think about it.Put those things down, even if at this point, they are guess work. You'll see why soon. Over the summer you can polish it up, and keep it close when the show is on.FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 10:57 AM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMFollowing Cac's research and findings regarding the position of the Island in the Pacific (thank you - brilliant!), I followed the links to volcanic 'hotspots' and discovered there are many definitions of the word 'hotspot'http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Hot_SpotFollowing the link to recombination I came across some very interesting points!!Is our Island then a hotspot of some sort or am I really clutching at straws now??Message was edited by: FoundinUKFoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 11:05 AM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMGeorge - Please !!!MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 11:29 AM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFoundinUK: Following Cac's research and findings regarding the position of the Island in the Pacific (thank you - brilliant!), I followed the links to volcanic 'hotspots' and discovered there are many definitions of the word 'hotspot'Found, just to clarify... that was MY researching and findings regarding the position of the island in the Pacific... not cac's. Forgive me, but I definitely want credit for that one - as it seems to be a biggie, and I did put the time and legwork in. thanks for the "brilliant' compliment, if it was intended for me.Did you mean to give credit to MEandthesea (me), rather than cac? Anyway, will look up what you found when I get out of work. Sounds interesting!FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 12:26 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMProfound apologies ME. So sorry, yes you deserve all the credit as I know you obviously worked hard at that one and I did mean you, just had a brief frenzy of inefficiency. I had actually noticed my error and was just about to correct when you did it for me. Big sorries once again.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 12:31 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMThanks, Found! I appreciate it. I should have been a bit more patient myself... giving you a chance to correct it on your own before I jumped in. Anyway, again... thanks so much for understanding.fedrich519Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 12:34 PM
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reply fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>2558 Posts Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PMCongrats!!I promise to make more of an effort in Part 5. I was AWOL for most of Part 4 and I hope to change that for Part 5 if I can keep up.figment_Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 12:44 PM reply 510 Posts Registered: Apr 09, 2005 11:47 AMGreat work ME! I was looking at it from a different angle and had considered Tonga a possibility...Tonga is an archipelago directly south of Western Samoa. Its 169 islands, 96 of them inhabited, are divided into three main groups - Vava'u, Ha'apai, and Tongatapu - and cover an 800-kilometer (500 mi.)-long north-south line. The largest island, Tongatapu, on which the capital city of Nuku'alofa is located, covers 257 square kilometers (99 sq. mi.). Geologically the Tongan islands are of two types: most have a limestone base formed from uplifted coral formations; others consist of limestone overlaying a volcanic base.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TongaOn a personal note, I once knew a large family from Tonga...I think they said they were all related to the king somehow...an interesting group of people with a colorful culture and personalities...Also considered the Marshall Islands and Solomon Islands groups, among others...but haven't had too much time...I really need to find myself a good atlas!Message was edited by: figment_FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 12:49 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMThanks for being so gracious ME and the fault was all mine.I had a great deal of fun perusing your geological links (I think I know everything about volcanoes now!!). I wonder if all the flora and fauna were introduced to this Island (inluding our Lostaways), and it is therefore 'man-made', for a specific reason. Maybe another volcanic eruption is due as well as/instead of a Monsoon - just to add to their troubles! Maybe.........!chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 12:59 PM reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMME --- You go, girl!!! (you are female, right?)Cac --- if you're still here (?), on A's students' map 1, I saw your note that we should look at it in reverse, and so then is north at the top? I can't see the full compass rose on this link to it. And I think you had an opinion about where our survivors camp is on that map... if you do, could you share it again? Anyone else (ME??) who has been working on the maps with Cac, feel free to jump in on this... thanks!RainnedropRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 01:06 PM reply 189 Posts Registered: Feb 20, 2005 02:54 PMBlackRock:- how about you start us off with a topic? sorta like when Linda Richman is vaclempt (sp?)on Coffee Talk?"I'll give you a topic... Locke is not good or evil... discuss amongst yourselves..."Hilarious (the chickpea is neither a chick nor a pea..discuss...)Found...very interesting info. on "hotspots" esp. DNA mutation, etc.Glad to see part 5figment_Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 01:56 PM reply
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510 Posts fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Registered: Apr 09, 2005 11:47 AMME: Also, the Kermadec Islands are uninhabited...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermadec_IslandsMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 02:30 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFound: I had a great deal of fun perusing your geological links (I think I know everything about volcanoes now!!). I wonder if all the flora and fauna were introduced to this Island (inluding our Lostaways), and it is therefore 'man-made', for a specific reason. Maybe another volcanic eruption is due as well as/instead of a Monsoon - just to add to their troubles! Thanks, Found!As far as the flora and fauna go, it's hard to say whether that's been itroduced by man, or made it's way there over time by natural means, as happens on other volcanic islands.Also, from what I read about shield volcanoes, they don't really "erupt" like other volcanoes. I think that is mention in the info I posted. So, I don't know if we'll see any big volcano eruptions, unless there's also some other type of volcano on the Lost island besides sheild volcanoes.fig, the first two guesses I gave for what area the Lost island might be were the Tonga Trench and the Kermadic Trench... so that was one of my two guess. If all the islands in the Kermadic Trench are uninhabited, then that would be a good option. However, they are south of the Tonga Trench, and further south from the equator than I imagine the Lost island to be... but, it could still be it. I imagine that some of the smaller islands in the area of the Tonga Trench might be unhabited too... but clearly the bigger islands are inhabited - or at least a number of them.By the way, nice to have you all here... fig, Found, chen, fed (yay, fed!) and all! Thanks so much for the cheers on my find. But more than that, thanks for sharing your ideas! Lovely way to start Part 5 of the Episode Titles thread.Message was edited by: MEandtheseabrainsgonebadRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 02:36 PM reply 68 Posts Registered: Apr 25, 2005 11:21 AMIf you do the math and check Qantas for a typical Sydney-LA flight path, you'll see that "six hours into the flight" of a 12,000 km flight is about 5,300 km.That puts the radio going out between Holand and Jarvis islands, RIGHT ON one of the "planetary grid system" vortices, NR 30.Then, if the pilot is correct about suddenly being 1,000 miles off course, the next closest vortex is NR 29 or NR 31.http://users.pandora.be/wouterhagens/biogeometry/detailsgrid_uk.htmlThe problem is the radio broadcast. How did Danielle's ship hear it? Is the island situated right on a vortex, able to "broadcast" out through any other vortex points?HOWEVER, I'd rather not have them vortex-jump (unless that's what has brought polar bears, Nigerian planes, etc) to the island. I'd rather it be a fictional island that the government set the experiment up on, somewhere around Howland island. Would have to be a volcanic island, since it's big -- and maybe that rock helps with electromagnetics.I'd rather the pilot's "1,000 miles off course" be a simple electronics glitch, that the display was goofed up due to the local EM broadcast.SointuitRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 02:40 PM reply 71 Posts Registered: May 04, 2005 05:35 AMI'd like to try to contribute here. My hubby just brought home a buddy that was a Geology major. Are there any questions anyone has that I can ask him?Huh, huh?Message was edited by: SointuitMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 02:49 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMSointuit, you can ask him what he knows about volcanos. It's my understanding that sheild volcanoes don't really "erupt" - spewing lava, etc... like other types of volcanoes do. Ask him if this is true.
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Also, ask him if a dormant or even dead volcano might have veins in it large enough to carve out an underground research facility (considering money is no object).fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>AdawhenRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 02:48 PM reply 2008 Posts Registered: Oct 17, 2004 03:14 PMHey BlackRock!Sorry to have missed you. I was beginning to get worried about you!A subject? A subject!It looks like you guys have more than enough to discuss here! Keep going!SointuitRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 03:03 PM reply 71 Posts Registered: May 04, 2005 05:35 AMSointuit, you can ask him what he knows about volcanos. It's my understanding that sheild volcanoes don't really "erupt" - spewing lava, etc... like other types of volcanoes do. Ask him if this is true. Also, ask him if a dormant or even dead volcano might have veins in it large enough to carve out an underground research facility (considering money is no object).Sorry guysTo my shagrin he didn't know about shield volcanos.Yes to the dormant/dead volcano having the veins..."if you'd be foolish enough to chance it."And he does not watch the show at all.meredgRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 03:13 PM reply 606 Posts Registered: Apr 01, 2005 12:08 PMOH DEAR!!! I have so much reading and research to catch up on....could you all stop thinking for about a week so I can get caught up?MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 03:21 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMmere, I want to say that after one DAY at work when I come home and find a bunch of new pages of posts and thinking and information. : )About the Tonga Trench islands.... it's interesting that one is called "Late". I'm sure it's no connection to the show, but did make me think of Charlie's finger tape. : )http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Tonga/framework.htmlMessage was edited by: MEandtheseadizliz70Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 03:38 PM reply 252 Posts Registered: Dec 13, 2004 09:50 PMso the tonga trench is where the australian and pacific plates push against each other, causing earthquakes and volcanoes? but hawaii is not on a plate boundary, it's a moving hotspot (there's already a new hawaiian island forming right now)from my geography class, there are high islands, with volcanic soil good for agriculture and low islands, made up of coral and fishing is the main economy. lots of communities on low islands have died out, with migration mainly between the high islands.looks like the island is near the tropic of capricorn and the date line.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 03:43 PM reply
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1652 Posts fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMdiz: but hawaii is not on a plate boundary, it's a moving hotspot (there's already a new hawaiian island forming right now)I never said Hawaii was on a plate boundary. I was talking about the Lost island, not Hawaii. Ada told us to look up what Oahu is, so we know what the Lost island is... and that is a shield volcano. There are sheild volcanos in the islands of the Tonga Trench... whether Hawaii is on a plate boundary or not. I don't think the conditions of the Lost island are supposed to be 100% identical to the Lost Island.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 03:43 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMAlso found this:In all, Tonga comprises 170 island, 42 of them inhabited.So that leaves a lot uninhabited.Also, this was quite intriguing:Due to the position just west of the interenational date line, the Tonga Visitors Bureau uses the marketing slogan, "where time begins", but they could just as well use, "where time stands till".Remember, many of the islands are uninhabited, and are probably a remote distance from the populated islands.More interesting info, if this IS the area of our Lost island:Tonga is moving east-southeast at the rate of 20 millimeters a year and the crack in the earth's crust that originally built Tonga has shifted northwest. Thus, the active volcanoes of today are in a line 50 km west of Ha'apai-Vava'u: Fonuafo'ou, Tofua, Lateiki, Late, Fonualei, and Niuafo'ou have all erupted during the last 200 years. And possible weather they might be in for:The name Tonga means south; it's refreshingly cooler and less humid here than on islands closer to the equator (such as sultry Samoa). December to April is the hot, rainy season, with especially high humidity January to March. June to August can be cool enough to make a sweater occasionally necessary.Tonga gets an average of two tropical hurricanes a year, usually between November and April, although they can occur as late as May. The southeast trade winds prevail from May to November, and easterlies the rest of the year; in Tonga, west and northwest winds herald bad weather. In February and March north winds bring heat waves and heavy rains. Finally, I found it interesting to read that in "1616 - Schoutten and Le Maire sight the Nius of Tonga.""Le Maire" reminded me a lot of "Le Mere". Maybe just a coincidence though...http://www.southpacific.org/text/finding_tonga.htmlbrainsgonebadRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:08 PM reply 68 Posts Registered: Apr 25, 2005 11:21 AMTonga's region IS within 1,000 miles of where the radio would have cut out 6 hours into the flight (almost due south of the Baker/Howland area).The problem is the timeline of the flight. According to what the pilot says, it all happened quickly. Radio goes out, they disappear from radar, they turn around, hit turbulence and crashed 1,000 miles offcourse.Let's assume they were on-course before the radio went out. That should put them around the Baker/Howland islands area.They still HAD to have some way of tracking where they were, for the pilot to visualize he was way off course. The reason this is all a problem (without "transporting") is that the island would have had to disable the plane from 1,000 miles away and somehow draw it to itself as they were trying to head back to Fiji. Doesn't seem plausible.I still believe the plane flew close to our island, was knocked out by the EM signals, and crashed there. Unless they hit a silly vortex and "transported" to another vortex where the island is -- like a "hot" or "cold" vortex takes you to a neutral one. MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:19 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMgood points, brain.....well, we don't know if the pilot was telling the truth, for one... and we don't know that the EM is what caused the instruments to go out and set them off course in the first place. Something else may have made their instruments to malfunction. When he was reading that they were 1000 off course, how would he even know this if the planes instrument panel went haywire? Could it have been wrong?
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>I've just never been convinced that some of the numerical details of what the pilot said, or even thought, were accurate... if the flight instruments stopped working.Now, you say 6 hours into the flight - so they would have traveled a lot further to the Tonga Islands by then.... is that what you're saying?Maybe I'm not quite clear of your point. Sorry about that... so much info spinning around in my head today!SointuitRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:17 PM reply 71 Posts Registered: May 04, 2005 05:35 AMIf they blow the hatch then it could possibly trigger an erruption. And then...?MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:22 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMA post from Ada on the musings thread - I know it's a response to a question cac originally asked, so posting this here for her, and others who may be interested.Figment: What are the distinctions between Science, Pseudo Science, Science Fiction and Fantasy?Adawhen: Science is both a process of gaining knowledge, and the organized body of knowledge gained by this process. That's it. Why so broad? Can you touch an atom? Then how do you know it exists? Science is the study of the world around us as a whole, natural and man-made. Some of it tangible, some of it empirical. All of it based on recorded or formulative theory. Examples? String-theory, Relativity, Time Travel, Water on Mars.Science fiction?Fiction based on elements of scientific discovery and prediction. Examples? Time Travel that has been successfully carried out, Black Holes, Women who can have it all. Psuedo-Science?Science that is fake or unsubstantiated. Examples? Bigfoot, UFO's, the Loch Ness Monster, Locke's hair.Fantasy?Unicorns, flying horses, Gnomes, Brownies, and Fairies. The Clinton years (oh, don't get mad! I'm just as mean to the other side, if you read me!).Hope this helps!MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:39 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFor some reason, I feel like the Lost island is close to the equator (closer to the Equator, rather than the Tropic of Capricorn), and close to the International Date line. If you look at the map image on this page, you'll see there are a LOT of tiny islands all over that area.... north of Tonga and Figi, and west of Kirbalti.http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/dateline.htmbrainsgonebadRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:47 PM reply 68 Posts Registered: Apr 25, 2005 11:21 AMME:I'm saying I believe the pilot's reading to be in error. However, if this all happened quickly by being in the proximity of the island, air traffic controllers WOULD know 815's last known location and could send out search patrols.So somehow it would make sense for the show that the plane IS 1,000 miles off course. Radar and GPS positioning equipment can still possibly function if the radio goes out. And their transponder went out as well, because others weren't able to see the plane.So did the 1,000 miles happen immediately, as in some vortex-transportation, or was it them flying blind for a while trying to get back to Fiji? I'm pretty sure passengers would know if the plane turned around, based on it banking and the position of the sun changing.I'd venture that they NEED to be 1,000 miles off course to not be "findable", and that it NEEDED to happen almost instantly for the passengers not to notice.
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The only way this could happen, then, is for them to have hit some EM vortex from the earth's planetary grid (i.e. Bermuda Triangle forces) which knocked their radio and transponder out, created the initial turbulence, and transported them to another vortex where the island is. Their GPS or radar shows them 1,000 miles off, and then they crash.fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>If this network is active, then perhaps that's what brought polar bears (from an alaskan vortex), a Nigerian plane (several African vortices), and others. But I think the french ship would have come there naturally, by hearing the numbers transmission. I don't think that transmission can be heard throughout the vortex network, otherwise people would have heard the distress call after she changed it.Too much typing! apologies.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:52 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMbrain: . Their GPS or radar shows them 1,000 miles off, and then they crash.If this network is active, then perhaps that's what brought polar bears (from an alaskan vortex), a Nigerian plane (several African vortices), and others.Thanks for explaining, brain. I have to warn you that I absolutely crindge at the vortex idea (it's like chewing on tin foil to me), but cac will probably love it. ; ) That's one area that she and I differ. But ah, we co exist as dear pals here on the Episode Titles thread... in peace and harmony. Hmmmmm... suddenly I imagine myself in a 70's Coke commerial... IheartlockeRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:58 PM reply 243 Posts Registered: Mar 31, 2005 12:03 PMThis is great, and it falls quite near the International Date line, that was being discussed, before.Here's a link, as well.http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/au.htmSointuitRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:55 PM reply 71 Posts Registered: May 04, 2005 05:35 AMhttp://www.mapquest.co.uk/cgi-bin/ia_find?link=school/worldatlas_index&uid=u18ey7raubncw7ua:250fyldwbw&atlas=tongaTry this ME. Has a lot of detail.pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 04:58 PM reply 94 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMMeandthesea, you asked a couple of pages back about shield volcanos and underground tunnels. Yep, they make them. They are called lava tubes, and are formed by swift moving lava cooling enough on the outside to solidify, while the rest of the lava flows out. I've been in one.Perfect for an evil genious hide-a-way, or a quick way to get around.brainsgonebadRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 05:17 PM reply 68 Posts Registered: Apr 25, 2005 11:21 AMME! I agree with the No Vortices Initiative. Too much for me. Why can't it be a bit more simple? There's plenty of mystery to an old military experimental island, unfolding over several seasons. Mental awakenings both good and bad, crazy people that have been there way too long, and much more.Just trying to make sense of the 1,000 miles off. Because I contend that everything happened when they passed close enough to the island to be hit with the EM signal. Maybe the signal has a range of a couple hundred of miles (which isn't very far, looking at a map of the Pacific). So that would be a large area to search. Plus, maybe their final vector/location was scrambled from the EM, greatly widening the possible search zone.I think the 1,000 mile off reading was just equipment failure.Maybe they had taken a slightly different route for some unknown reason (avoiding a storm, catching tailwinds, someone paying off air traffic control (OH NO!))
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Maybe someone DOES know they are there... BWA HA HAAA...MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 05:45 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMpau: Perfect for an evil genious hide-a-way, or a quick way to get around.pau, fascinating! thanks so much for the info!brain: However, if this all happened quickly by being in the proximity of the island, air traffic controllers WOULD know 815's last known location and could send out search patrols.So somehow it would make sense for the show that the plane IS 1,000 miles off course. Radar and GPS positioning equipment can still possibly function if the radio goes out.Well, this is what the pilot said:"Six hours in, our radio went out. No one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji. By the time we hit turbulence, we were a thousand miles off course. They're looking for us in the wrong place."So, the air traffic controlers would know where they were at 6 hours in, but not after that. When air traffic controll lost track of them, they turned back to land in Figi. Then, by the time they hit turbulance, they were 1,000 miles off course. So, I guess if he can tell they were 1,000 miles off course, then their GPS must have still been working. So, they must be 1,000 miles off the course of their route from wherever they were between "6 hours in" and Figi.Message was edited by: MEandtheseaMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 06:02 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMIheartlocke and soinuit, thanks for the links, and the maps! Yes, very detailed indeed!Iheartlocke, if you look at the image on this link I provided earlier, it gives an even closer detail to where the IDL falls around the Tonga Islands:http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/dateline.htmbrain: Just trying to make sense of the 1,000 miles off. Because I contend that everything happened when they passed close enough to the island to be hit with the EM signal. Brain, I hear ya! I think the EM had a lot to do with it too... though I'm not convinced it had to do with their radio going out. I'm torn between whether I think the EM is why they went off course or not - makes sense, but I'm just not sure. I do think it's why they hit turbulance though. We may need to try and find out how far a large EM wave or field can reach. I read something about speculation the Pine Gap underground antennea is large enough to create an EM sheild over the entire continent of Australia. 1000 miles isn't that far when you think about it. Pine Gap, where Lenny and Sam were stationed, is just over 1,000 miles from Kilgorlee, were Sam lived.Message was edited by: MEandtheseaRainnedropRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 06:09 PM reply 189 Posts Registered: Feb 20, 2005 02:54 PMFound some info. re: length of EM wavesRadio waves have the longest wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum. These waves can be longer than a football field or as short as a football. Radio waves do more than just bring music to your radio. They also carry signals for your television and cellular phones. The Very Large Array (VLA) is one of the world's premier astronomical radio observatories. The VLA consists of 27 antennas arranged in a huge "Y" pattern up to 36 km (22 miles) across -- roughly one and a half times the size of Washington, DC. Hope it helpshttp://imagers.gsfc.nasa.gov/ems/radio.htmlMessage was edited by: RainnedropFoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 06:22 PM reply 30 Posts
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Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Are we looking at the IDL, Tropic of Capricorn and the Lost Island all crossing at the same point? MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 06:45 PM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFound: Are we looking at the IDL, Tropic of Capricorn and the Lost Island all crossing at the same point? Well, actually... no. WWhat I'm thinking ios that the location of the Lost island near the ILD and the Equator... not Tropic of Capricorn. Dizliz brought up the Tropic of Capricorn earlier, but that's been the only reference to it I've heard... and I'm not sure how she came up with that idea - what led her to that location.As I mentioned in my reply to her, and I've said on other posts, I think the location we're looking for is close to the equator. I think the Tropic of Capricorn is too far south.Sayid has even made mention to being "this close to the equator"... though I'm not sure how he'd know. However, I really do think it's the equator they're near, not the Tropic of Cancer.FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 07:06 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMSorry ME - got confused. You were talking about the Tonga region and that is around the Tropic of Capricorn (23 and a bit degrees south of Equator). FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 09, 2005 07:19 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMThe Phoenix Islands and Karibati (whose flag includes wavey lines!)are near the equator and IDL.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 05:38 AM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFound, I thought the Tropic of Capricorn was a lot further below the Equator... midway between the Equator and the South Pole. I thought the Tonga Trench region looked close to the Equator than the Tropic of Capricorn, but might just be how it looks on the maps I've been looking at.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 05:41 AM reply 1652 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMHere's something Ada posted at the end of the Part 4 thread.... I think it will help those working on the maps. Sounds like we should be using the sceenshot maps from the show, not the maps Ada's students created:Hey guys, When we did those maps and a board regular posted them for us, no one was doing screen caps.It was back when I was anonymous!The maps were my way of getting viewers to look at everything for clues. Back then, a LOT of the background clues were going right by posters eyes unseen.Long story short, there are screen caps now of the professional maps used in the show. You are probably going to find them better than ours, which were only done to get people to go "WOW! There are clues in the background!".Hope that helps.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 06:11 AM reply
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1652 Posts fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFound: The Phoenix Islands and Karibati (whose flag includes wavey lines!)are near the equator and IDL.Found, I too noticed that Karibati is very close to both the ILD and the equator. And what is VERY interesting, as well, is that I finally read the fist chapter of Ada's Flysail/Claire story last night... and in it she has Flysail looking for his beloved Claire whose Oceanic flight 815 went missing. He decided to look where the search party wasn't. He decided to head for the Line Islands... which Karibati is part of! And that area is where his plane ran out of gas, went down, and he eventually sailed his way to the Lost island (using the wing of the plane and his parachute as a sailboat)Now, I doubt the Lost island IS Karabati, because I believe it is a fictitious island... but I'm betting now that it's in the Line Islands, or that general area.I think we can now look into the weather, climate and overall geology of that area to find out what's in store for our Lost friends!http://www.janeresture.com/kiribati_line/Question though... from what i'm reading, sounds like they're coral islands. Haven't looked deeply though... needs to be volcanic...Message was edited by: MEandtheseaMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 07:56 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMI finally found something that said the Line Islands are indeed volcanic... The last type of volcanic island are those formed over volcanic hot spots. A hot spot is more or less stationary relative to the moving tectonic plate above it, so a chain of islands results as the plate drifts. Over long periods of time, this type of island is eventually eroded down and "drowned" by isostatic adjustment, becoming a seamount.Plate movement across a hot-spot produces a line of islands oriented in the direction of the plate movement. An example is the Hawaiian Islands from Hawaii to Kure, which then extends beneath the sea surface in a more northerly direction as the Emperor Seamounts. Another chain with similar orientation is the Tuamotu Archipelago; its older, northerly trend is the Line Islandshttp://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/i/is/island.htmWhat's also interesting is that the time of day is exactly the same as Hawaii, just one day ahead. This would make it an ideal setting if filming on Oahu.... times of day would be true to life (might be of the few things that are true to life on Lost!).annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 08:29 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMgood morning everyone! congrats on part 5!!! how exciting. thank you to all of you who keep this going, it's the BEST spot on the boards for reliable, great LOST discussion...so, i spent yesterday reading Ada's Flysail/Claire story. when she says she left clues, she wasn't lying.ME you beat me to the Line Islands this morning...i was too slow in posting. but i do have some information that i found interesting..."All of them except Vostok bear scars of phosphate mining. Stone faced platforms and graves on Malden and Caroline indicate both islands were once inhabited by Polynesians, and British servicemen were stationed on Malden in the 50s and 60s during the British nuclear testing."http://www.pacificislandtravel.com/kiribati/about_destin/lineislands.htmlMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 09:16 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AManni: so, i spent yesterday reading Ada's Flysail/Claire story. when she says she left clues, she wasn't lying.
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Wow! That's a lot of reading for one day! Very impressive!fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>ME you beat me to the Line Islands this morning...i was too slow in posting. but i do have some information that i found interesting...Well, anni my dear, you've been quite absent around here of late. Have you been quitely lurking and reading up on all the clues and researching them all so you can swoop in an aswer them all? Humph!!!Ok, you KNOW I'm just teasing you! I was about to post an S.O.S. on the thread if we didn't hear from you soon! Glad you're back! "All of them except Vostok bear scars of phosphate mining. Stone faced platforms and graves on Malden and Caroline indicate both islands were once inhabited by Polynesians, and British servicemen were stationed on Malden in the 50s and 60s during the British nuclear testing."VERY interestiing! I read that stuff about the mining too, but the significance didn't really click in until now - which is funny since I had mentioned the idea of mine shafts long ago, but was, as the more melodramatic posters say, "shot down".I also read the stuff about the nucluar testing, but just hadn't gotten around to posting it yet - so I'm glad you did! All great stuff!FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 09:19 AM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMI wonder if our Island is a Seamount which is a relatively new volcano.http://geology.wcedu.pima.edu/~nkieren/web2.htmlHotspots have been mentioned as well -http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/vents/nemo/explorer/concepts/seamount.htmlThere is a Seamount (called Mellish) north of Hawaii and practically on the IDL and about 35 degrees north of the equator.I might be wandering further from our actual position but its worth chucking a few more ideas in!annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 09:33 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMso i'm reading up on the line islands. the only American owned one in the southern line islands, is Jarvis. it is uninhabited and has an interesting history. now, i agree with ME that our 'lost' island is fictional...but this is interesting info nonetheless..."The U.S. occupied and reclaimed the island in 1935.The Millersville Settlement on the western side of island was occasionally used as a weather station from 1935 until World War II, when it was abandoned; it was reoccupied in 1957 during the International Geophysical Year by scientists but again abandoned in 1958."i was interested to know what scientists would be doing there, and what the Geophysical Year was..."The International Geophysical Year or IGY was an international scientific effort that lasted from July 1, 1957 to December 1958. The IGY was chosen to occur during a solar maximum, to notice unusual effects of the sun on the Earth. There had been two preceding International Polar Years, from 1882 to 1883 and from 1932-33.The IGY encompassed eleven Earth sciences: aurora and airglow, cosmic rays, geomagnetism, glaciology, gravity, ionospheric physics, longitude and altitude determinations (precision mapping), meteorology, oceanography, eismology and solar activity.Both the U.S. and the Soviet Union launched early satellites for this event. Significant achievements included the discovery of the Van Allen Belts and the discovery of mid-ocean submarine ridges, an important confirmation of plate tectonics.""The polar areas have many unique phenomena. Circulatory systems for air and water reach the surface, as do the majority of the Earth's magnetic field lines. Thick glaciers have entrapped air and water from ancient times. It is easiest to observe these phenomena near the poles.Unfortunately, the poles are expensive places to visit, because they are distant, cold and deserted. International cooperative programs share the costs, and maximize the amount of coordinated scientific observations. The IGY is the most famous example""Seven years were required to organize the collaboration. There were twelve expeditions to the Arctic, and three to the Antarctic. Twelve countries participated: the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Sweden, the United Kingdom, Canada and the United States. They operated fourteen meteorological stations around the North Pole. Observations included meteorology, geomagnetism, auroral phenomena, ocean currents, tides, structure and motion of ice and atmospheric electricity. More than forty meteorological observatories around the world expanded their programs of observations for this period.Shortly after World War I, mysterious, often defective behaviour in telegraph, radio and electric power and telephone lines began to persuade engineers and scientists that the electrical geophysics of the Earth needed more study."[/i]there is a lot more info that seems to fit nicely with our island, what it was used for and Danielle's group as well. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/J/Ja/Jarvis_Island.htmhttp://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/I/In/International_Geophysical_Year.htmeven more interesting info regarding our gvt. and their wanting to cover up why they wanted to incorporate these islands... i will post in a 2nd post as to not make this one any longer!
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 09:35 AM reply 180 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMI didn't realise that we had already moved to Part 5. Are you all hiding from me?So, I'll bore you again with this post seeing as I worked hard on it.1- Three words were used over and over again in this episode: Hero. Fate. Brother. Why?It may ultimately be fate that put everyone on the island but we all make choices everyday of our lives. If Sayid hadn't chosen to accept his friend's body he wouldn't have been on the plane. If Boone hadn't gone to help Shannon, yet again; if Jack hadn't been the ?good little boy' and gone to collect his father etc. they wouldn't have been on the plane. They all made a choice. Haddad thought it was fate that Sayid and Essam met but we know otherwise. Is there such a thing as fate? Another thought on Sayid claiming Essam's body, what did he do with it? Would he have had time to make arrangements for a Muslim burial in one day? Did he take it with him on the plane, as Jack did with his dad?2- You should be drawing up a map by now to follow the action. You have been given a great deal of information in the last three shows on that. It will become helpful soon.Chen, you're doing an awesome job, collecting information for this project. The only thing I had a thought about was that I think the beach camp probably faces west. We have seen them sit on the beach and watch the sunset.3- Who is currently the leader of this group of survivors?I think that at the moment this is a very reluctant Jack. And with the very precarious state of mind that he is in right now, I'm sure he is not up to the job. I've said this all along, and Sayid now seems to be seeing it also, Locke is the only one (apart maybe from Walt) who is really in tune with what is going on, on the island. He is the one to follow, if the other losties can only realize this.4- What is Sayid doing when Shannon approaches him to ask him to do something about Locke?I'm not completely sure but as others have already said I think he's probably working on the transceiver for the raft.5- What is the Greater Good? And who is acting for it on behalf of the survivors?I think that the Greater Good is when one acts in the best interest of the group as opposed to themselves as an individual. Sayid convinced Essam to give his own life for the ?greater good of the cause.' The cause was more important than his life. I don't think it always has to involve a sacrifice though. I think that Locke believes he is acting for the greater good of the losties, by stopping Sayid from locating the transmission, allowing Boone to go into the plane, opening the hatch etc. 6- Do you think Shannon is done seeking revenge?No. She is not seeing things clearly at all. She is very selfish and egocentric at the best of times and is looking for someway to heal the pain that she is feeling. It will be a long time, if ever, that she will come to terms with Boones death. We haven't seen a Shannon FB yet. We have a lot more to learn about her.7- If Locke understands that someone on this island is dangerous, as he implies to Sayid, who do you think he should talk to?Danielle. She has been there longer than the losties. Maybe she is a few nuts short of a bushel but she has survived, alone, on the island for 16 years (debatable but a long time in any case). She knows what the dangers are and how to protect herself, who better to quiz about the island. I'm surprised that Locke hasn't talked to her already.8- How do you think they will open the hatch? And should they?The census of opinion seems to be, with the heroine. I can go along with this. Should they? Absolutely not!!! I have always had a very bad feeling about the hatch. If it were supposed to be open, it wouldn't be locked in the first place.9- Where was Boone Carlisle from?Apart from CA, don't know.10- Who killed Boone?Fate or choice? Choice, he went into the plane of his own free will.annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 10:03 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMto continue with info on Jarvis (and other American owned Line Islands)..."Probably the most interesting period in the history of Jarvis Island is the period of near continuous occupation, or "colonization" from 1935 to early 1942.""The publicly stated reasons for the colonization were to firm up U.S. territorial claims to the islands which were considered valuable for their locations as refueling stops for trans-Pacific air travel in the mid-1930s. Actually, there was much more going on behind the scenes" "Randall Brink, in his investigative book Lost Star: The Search for Amelia Earhart (1994), was able to obtain recently de-classified documents relating to the equatorial islands, including Jarvis Island. He found a series of confidential memorandum between President Roosevelt, Secretary of State Cordell Hull and Director of Air Commerce Rex Martin which laid out the benefits of claiming the three equatorial islands (Howland, Baker and Jarvis Islands) to be used for air bases in the likely event of hostilities with the Japanese in the Pacific. In particular, The Martin Memo of 8 April 1935 discusses the possible cover story to be used in the event of public and newspaper inquiry. "cut/paste the "Martin Memo""Memorandum from Rex L. Martin, director of air commerce for the Department of Commerce, to President Roosevelt, April 8, 1935Presidential Papers, FDR Library, Hyde Park, New York
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>To date there is no public knowledge concerning the proposed plan for sovereignty over the islands of Jarvis, Howland and Baker. Should anything become public in con-nection therewith, it is advisable that all concerned make the same public statements.Newspaper correspondents will obviously demand an ex-planation from the Department of Commerce as to why these islands are being colonized. To say that it is for the purpose of installing air navigation facilities to aid ocean fly-ing would obviously require a tentative projection of an air-mail service in the Pacific. The Second Assistant Postmaster General [Harlee Branch], in charge of Air Mail Service, has informally agreed to make such an announcement at the proper time. To aid in the appearance of fact, the attached charts [have been prepared], and will remain confidential until such time as a public explanation is demanded.The claim for sovereignty by the United States is being handled by the State Department, and no agency other than the State Department will discuss this phase without prior consultation with the State Department...."The end result was that Roosevelt agreed to issue an executive order to claim the islands and move jurisdiction of them from the Department of Commerce to the Department of the Interior.http://home.att.net/~higley.family/sub1.htmwe've discussed that our island is very likely a 'secret government experiment island'...this info does suggest that this type of thing was done...annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 10:20 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMi continue..."After Roosevelt's executive order effectively claimed the three islands, including Jarvis Island, for the United States. The colonists that were already there were removed and replaced later that summer. Once again the colony was people by four to six young men from the Kamehmeha Boys School as well as one or two enlisted military personnel." New York Times July 8, 1936U. S. Prepares to Dig In On Tiny Pacific IslandsHONOLULU, July 8 - Details of the manner in which the bUnited States will "perpetuate its sovereignty" over Howland, Jarvis and Baker Islands were revealed today with the arrival of two officials of the Department of Interior...The cargo will include complete equipment for two aerological stations. Such posts will give the army and navy a line of observations that would be invaluable in the event of hostilities."New York Times July 25, 1936U.S. COLONISTS START FOR TROPICAL ISLANDSCoast Guard Cutter Is Taking Group From Honolulu - Isle to Be Prepared for PlanesHONOLULU, Hawaii July 25 - Heavily laden with building materials and carrying a group of new colonists chosen from personnel of the Kamehameha Boys School, the Coast Guard cutter Itasca departed yesterday for Baker, Howland and Jarvis Islands. Permanent development of these tiny specks of land along the equator will be started.Aboard the Itasca with the group of boys were W. T. Miller of the Department of Commerce and R. B. Black of the Department of Interior, who are supervising the work of colonization and establishment of permanent stations from which weather observations can be made.The colonists took with them large quantities of seedlings and cuttings for planting ironwood, cashew, mango, breadfruit, Hawaiian oranges, passion fruit and sea grapes.is this "man made"? did 'man' bring all of the vegetation to the island?Preparation of the islands for use by aircraft will start in about three months, when the Itasca makes another voyage carrying tractors and plows, which will be used to remove bumps from the natural runways. On her present trip the Itasca is returning in one month. She is sailing again in September.New York Times August 17, 1936RADIOS FOR PACIFIC ISLESStations on Baker, Howland and Jarvis to Give Aerological DataHONOLULU, Aug 17. - Radio stations on Baker, Howland and Jarvis Islands, 1,000 miles south of Honolulu, will be sending reports to the outside world within three months, it was reported today when the Coast Guard cutter Itasca returned from the South with a group of eight boy colonists.When the Itasca sails out again in October or November, radio equipment will be taken along. Aerological stations on Jarvis and Howland Islands are now gathering upper-air data, which will be the chief subject matter transmitted when radio operation is begun.Jarvis island was never used during World War II...Howalnd was never again occpied nor was Jarvis island which sat out the rest of the war.so, work was done by the gvt. on these islands and then they were abandoned. heavy machinery was brought in, work on 'natural' airstips was done, some radio equipment and some weather observation equipment were brought in...annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 10:26 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMin reference to the scientists that visited during the International Geophysical Year studies...
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:28:46)
"The IGY scientists' house, a few sheds, trash, an old light-house, and a tramway are the only signs of human habitation remaining. The settlers brought cats with them, and these now feed on seabirds. Rats formerly occurred on Jarvis, but were probably extirpated by cats. POBSP personnel killed over 200 cats in 1964 and 1965, and in later visits in 1967 and 1968 eight or nine were seen in a day or two."fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>a tramway..."tram·way ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trmw)n. A track or way for trams, as in a mine. Chiefly British. A streetcar line. A cable or system of cables for a cable car. n 1: a conveyance that transports passengers or freight in carriers suspended from cables and supported by a series of towers [syn: tram, aerial tramway, cable tramway, ropeway] 2: the track on which trams or streetcars run [syn: tramline, streetcar track]"FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 10:39 AM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMBrilliant anni...! Love where you are going with this one. Jarvis' longitude is 0 deg 23 mins (23!!) Didn't A say this was a very important number?I liked our island being somewhere in the Line Island chain and this definately fits.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 10:54 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMGREAT finds, anni! Lots of great info - all the experiment stuff!! I read some of that stuff, but hadn't read all of it yet. It really supports the idea that our Lost Island is part of the Line Islands, even if fictitious. It all fits so nicely, and we can imagine that the Lost island was part of the governent experiments that went on within the Line Islands.I had read about that info. regarding the rats and cats and all, but didn't think it was significant enough to post (not knocking your decision to post it). There's just so much info I read about the islands...Found, the coordinates of Jarvis is interesting, but I do think the Lost island is fictional, don't you? You're not thinking the Lost island is actally Jarvis, are you?davis: I didn't realise that we had already moved to Part 5. Are you all hiding from me?davis, cac mentioned in Part 4 that she was starting Part 5, and then I left a note and link for you at the end of Part 4 today when I noticed you had posted there after Part 5 was started.Message was edited by: MEandtheseaannipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 10:59 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMTHANKS! found...and 'hello'! i don't think we've 'met' yet...i am reading so much about this island that just seems to fit. however, i do think that our writers most probably used a ficitonal island. IF they did choose to use a real one....this one would be a great choice, because it has been unoccupied for so long and has such a secretive mysteriousness about it.in all of my readings, no one seems to know how it got it's name. that is interesting in an of itself...another mystery!Ada always asks..."are we having fun yet?" YES! This is a blast! daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 11:27 AM reply 180 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMdavis, cac mentioned in Part 4 that she was starting Part 5, and then I left a note and link for you at the end of Part 4 today when I noticed you had posted there after Part 5 was started.ME, thanks for the link, that's how I found you all. I just love the enthusiasm and intellect of the people in this thread. Makes for some wonderful reading material. Thanks to all for allowing me to be part of it. MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 11:47 AM reply
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1653 Posts fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AManni: i am reading so much about this island that just seems to fit. however, i do think that our writers most probably used a ficitonal island. IF they did choose to use a real one....this one would be a great choice, because it has been unoccupied for so long and has such a secretive mysteriousness about it.anni, i agree! maybe the Lost island was modeled after Jarvis. I'm pretty sure Ada said that the Lost island is indeed fictional, but perhaps we can just ask her so we all know for sure and can stop trying to find the exact island...Ada - this is an official question: IS the Lost island fictional?davis, thank YOU for joining in! You have a lot of great ideas - i'm very happy you found the thread!FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 01:11 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMYes, anni and ME I still believe the Island is fictional ('tho I do need reminding of that fact occassionally) but as the Jarvis info seems very pertinent I wondered if it was used as a model for our Island and the co-ordinates are just a clue for us to find that out. Just a thought as the 23 thing just happened to be there. Maybe just pure co-incidence after all. Great work going on here all the same.FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 01:12 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMSorry anni, very rude of me.......hello to you too.AdawhenRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 01:19 PM reply 2008 Posts Registered: Oct 17, 2004 03:14 PMI didn't even know you all were looking for an exact location!UK is right, the island is fictional, that's why I said look at the Oahu. That's the closest thing that you have to a reality, because that is where the series is filmed.The island is not real.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 02:34 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMAda: I didn't even know you all were looking for an exact location!No, Ada... I definitely wasn't looking for an exact location! LOL! I have just been looking for general area where the island might be located... so we can get an idea of what they're in for on the island, in terms of weather, etc. I think that's what we were all doing here (I hoped!). However,I couldn't tell from some people's posts if they were thinking certain islands were "the" actualy location (as in, "the" island that the Lost island is supposed to be), or not... which is why I thought I'd put the question out to you directly so you could state it clearly. I just didn't want people knocking themselves out trying to find "the" exact island if it's a fictional island, which I assumed it was (fictional). I thought your confirmation of this might settle it for everyone.Found, I do agree, as I said earlier, that maybe Javis was used as a model for the Lost island.. perhaps was an inspiration for the Lost island.Anyway, thanks, Ada! : ) FoundinUKRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 02:27 PM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMAawwww - maybe we are trying to be too clever here and losing track of what we should be looking at, whatever that is ! Maybe it is not quite as complicated as we are making it. I don't know why, but I got the
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:29:50)
impression we had been directed to look at the Island's location. I think I am losing track of the important things by going off at tangents. Take stock girl and start again !! Need another new episode I think, to get me back on track.fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>brainsgonebadRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 02:40 PM reply 68 Posts Registered: Apr 25, 2005 11:21 AMSorry to burst the Jarvis bubble, but no chance. It's way too small and not volcanic. It has hardly any jungle.The island they are on is quite large. You can see miles and miles down the coastline. Wasn't it a mile from the beach to the cave?Fictional island completely. But I believe it's based somewhere in the vicinity of Jarvis -- but on a volcanic larger island. That's the area where the radio would have cut out 6 hours into the flight.Jarvis info, from http://www.janeresture.com/jarvis/It is a low, basin-shaped, coral island, measuring 1.3/4 miles east and west by a mile greatest width. The highest point on the rim is 23 feet (at Millersville) and portions of the east rim are less than 12 feet. The rim is quite narrow, enclosing an extensive basin, one point being at sea level, although there is no permanent lagoon.LOSTintheTREESRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 02:53 PM reply 7 Posts Registered: Feb 24, 2005 12:27 PMHi MEandthesea...Thanks for clueing me in! There is such great information on this board and it's hard to keep up!MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 03:09 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMbrain: Sorry to burst the Jarvis bubble, but no chance. It's way too small and not volcanic. It has hardly any jungle.brain, now worries! I don't think you're bursting any bubble. As I have been saying, and as Ada JUST confirmed... the Lost island is FICTIONAL. There is no way that Jarvis could be the Lost island anyway! However, I don't think you can rule out that MAYBE the creators heard of Jarvis and were some of the happenings there.And I also learned that some of the Line Islands are volcanic. So, all that I am saying is that it wouldn't be unreasonable that the Lost island might be some fictional, unknown island in the area of the Line Islands. And yes, a large island.Found, we haven't been looking for the exact island, as the island is fictional... but only the area where the (fictional) Lost island might be located. The reason it would be helpful to know this, as well as to know what kind of island Oahu us (which is a sheild volcano - two, to be exact), as Ada said, is that it will tells us what our Lost friends might be facing in the months ahead... in terms of weather conditions, and geological happenings.So, narrowing the general area where the (fictional) Lost island might be located is indeed useful to us. I think we've probably narrowed it as close as we possibly could those. Somewhere in the area of the Line Islands... close to the equator and IDL.Found, I think we should now look into weather conditions for this area... the Line Island area... and then we can maybe make some guesses as to what's coming up on Lost... as well as what occurrances might come up on a shield island volcano.Message was edited by: MEandtheseaMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 10, 2005 06:14 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMOff the current Lost topic, but has anyone else wondered why they don't boil the water before drinking it or filling their water bottles with it?
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Is that going to be an issue for the castaways, or are the writers not bothering to have them boil the water because it would simply be too tedious and time consumer to keep the storyline moving along week to week, and even during each episode? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>FoundinUKRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 01:11 AM reply 30 Posts Registered: May 01, 2005 02:32 AMME: Found, I think we should now look into weather conditions for this area... the Line Island area... and then we can maybe make some guesses as to what's coming up on Lost... as well as what occurrances might come up on a shield island volcano.I know we have already covered this (here or on another thread, I can't remember) when A said to look at Kelvin Waves.Just a reminder. Is this what caused the unusual tidal surge that made the survivors move from their original camp? Kelvin waves start around Indonesia and move East towards The Americas (confirming that the camp is probably on the west coast of the Island). Kelvin waves usually (but not always) occur prior to an El Nino. With everything else they have to contend with, surely the writers wouldn't be so cruel as to throw nasty bad ikky weather at them too.Or are Kelvin waves and the Coriolis effect more to do with the past of the Island than the future?MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 05:26 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFound: I know we have already covered this (here or on another thread, I can't remember) when A said to look at Kelvin Waves.Well, I do know that it was indeed covered on other threads, as well as in this thread - quite a bit. However, I felt like what was "covered" was simply the definitions of those terms that Ada gave... and yes, quite a bit of general info was posted about them. But I know that some of those weather events act differentlly along the equator. Now that we know that's definitely where they are, we might be able to see what's coming up for them. They are on an island near the equator in the So. Pacific - I would think the writers would definitely throw whatever nasty weather at them that occcurrs in taht area. Why not? Another obstacle, and one that is actually true to life, would only add more drama and intrigue to the show.I guess what I've seen posted is - what a Kelvin Wave is, what the coriolis effect is, etc.. . but I haven't really seen anyone state or predict what the Lostites are in for. I think you're right about that tide surge though....Also, we should be thinking about what the island being a shield volcano might mean for them. Also, it seems likely the island is surrounded by reefs, which might be what some of the objects are sticking out of the water that we see on the maps. Maybe.chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:07 AM reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMHi! I haven't been around as much lately because a nasty spring cold is making its way through our household, making it harder for me to think and post... I did want to say that I'm afraid that the "rafiot" discussion near the end of thread 4 may have been heading in the wrong direction with "rafiot" equals whirlpool, Charybdis... If you're interested, you can see what Ada says in this rafiot thread (look for consensi's posts and Ada's response):http://forums.go.com/abc/thread?start=84&threadID=358684I'm think I'm the one who first introduced Charybdis into the discussion in ET4, so if that's been a wild goose chase, I'm sorry...Also, I've been thinking about Born to Run, the previews say that the survivors will find out about Kate's past... We also know from Ada that the diary writer's situation in Louisiana is soon coming into play... I had been thinking that the LA thing might involve Sawyer since he's from that part of the world, but maybe it has to do with Kate (a crime, a trial, etc.). Kate does get around, she could have been in LA, and while I don't think she perpetrated something horrible against the diary writer, maybe she is connected to whomever did...And Jack... the more I think about it the more I have to wonder if losing Sarah somehow (not necessarily her death) and not being able to let go is what precipitated his breakdown, instead of the situation with telling the truth about his father...annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:11 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMok. in my defense. i thought i made it clear when i stated that my belief was that the island is fictional.
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:31:03)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>i in no way was trying to convince anyone that Jarvis WAS our island. what we've been pointed to in clues both from the show and from Ada, had me looking into the history and the geography of that area. i do believe that at the heart of fiction lies reality to some extent. we are all influenced by what we see, read, hear, experience. the writers have to get their ideas from somewhere.my only motive in bringing to light the island of Jarvis was to show how in REALITY things are very similar to our FICTIONAL 'lost' island. i thought it might give us a better grasp for the 'real' and 'scientific' answers to what the island is and what might be going on there.i hope i didn't lead anyone astray, but i will stick to a few points that i think are pertinant...1. governments DO secretly obtain islands for scientific/secret missions and/or experiments.2. volcanic islands HAVE successfully had native area plants and wildlife brought to them to grow and prosper.3. there WERE scientific explorations and experiments performed on Artic/Antartic air in and around the Line Islands for purposes similar to things we've seen on 'our' lost island.4. volcanic islands DO have natural 'airstrips', tunnel systems both natural and man made (from mining).5. these islands DO lay close to the equator and the IDL.6. these islands ARE in the feasible flight path that Oceanic 815 took.7. there ARE uninhabited, but montiored, islands in the same vicinity of 'our' lost island.8. in the 30's and 40's when mining was done on these islands, the workers instituted tramway systems as ways to get around.9. during the 30's this island (Jarvis) was used for weather experiments and observation10. radio antennae equipment was taken and installed for communcation purposes during the WW2 years.so, because LOST is NOT a fantasy show, it IS based in the realities of the real world around us. both modern and historical. so there IS a historical basis for the things that we all look into. is our island the home of Montauk? no. but we think there are comparisons. Is our island Jarvis? no. but i think there are comparisons.hope that helps explain why i shared the info!!!! annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:24 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMregarding the info that chen just shared...i am going to copy and paste the links and the comments here, just to have in them convenient to us...it is a good catch, and Ada is giving her blessing!consensi..."Hey, Dad of 4, I do not want to appear critical of yourthread, it is a good one. I do have some questions concerningthe rafoit. It may be possible that there is another.I visited lost links.com and they have a link to "the tub of death". If you click it you see it along witha poem. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.insondable.net/rafiot_mort.htm&prev=/search?q=Rafiot&num=20&hl=en&lr=What struck me is that the pic at the link looks somewhatlike the drawing on map 6. A partially sunken vessel nearthe knife handle.http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/maps/map6.jpgI apologize if this has already been discussed, I did asearch and could find nothing about it."Lost links has it:http://www.insondable.net/rafiot_mort.htmAda..."Bless you, Consensi!Odysseus, Dad, that's all I can say, but follow Consensi. It's a good lead."annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:27 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMhere are the words in french and in english...Le rafiot de la mortLe rafiot de la mort Te nargue près du vieux port Tu devras t'embarquer Mais d'abord faut payer Sans savoir où aller Sans pouvoir discuter Faut subir l'agonie
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:31:13)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>i in no way was trying to convince anyone that Jarvis WAS our island. what we've been pointed to in clues both from the show and from Ada, had me looking into the history and the geography of that area. i do believe that at the heart of fiction lies reality to some extent. we are all influenced by what we see, read, hear, experience. the writers have to get their ideas from somewhere.my only motive in bringing to light the island of Jarvis was to show how in REALITY things are very similar to our FICTIONAL 'lost' island. i thought it might give us a better grasp for the 'real' and 'scientific' answers to what the island is and what might be going on there.i hope i didn't lead anyone astray, but i will stick to a few points that i think are pertinant...1. governments DO secretly obtain islands for scientific/secret missions and/or experiments.2. volcanic islands HAVE successfully had native area plants and wildlife brought to them to grow and prosper.3. there WERE scientific explorations and experiments performed on Artic/Antartic air in and around the Line Islands for purposes similar to things we've seen on 'our' lost island.4. volcanic islands DO have natural 'airstrips', tunnel systems both natural and man made (from mining).5. these islands DO lay close to the equator and the IDL.6. these islands ARE in the feasible flight path that Oceanic 815 took.7. there ARE uninhabited, but montiored, islands in the same vicinity of 'our' lost island.8. in the 30's and 40's when mining was done on these islands, the workers instituted tramway systems as ways to get around.9. during the 30's this island (Jarvis) was used for weather experiments and observation10. radio antennae equipment was taken and installed for communcation purposes during the WW2 years.so, because LOST is NOT a fantasy show, it IS based in the realities of the real world around us. both modern and historical. so there IS a historical basis for the things that we all look into. is our island the home of Montauk? no. but we think there are comparisons. Is our island Jarvis? no. but i think there are comparisons.hope that helps explain why i shared the info!!!! annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:24 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMregarding the info that chen just shared...i am going to copy and paste the links and the comments here, just to have in them convenient to us...it is a good catch, and Ada is giving her blessing!consensi..."Hey, Dad of 4, I do not want to appear critical of yourthread, it is a good one. I do have some questions concerningthe rafoit. It may be possible that there is another.I visited lost links.com and they have a link to "the tub of death". If you click it you see it along witha poem. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.insondable.net/rafiot_mort.htm&prev=/search?q=Rafiot&num=20&hl=en&lr=What struck me is that the pic at the link looks somewhatlike the drawing on map 6. A partially sunken vessel nearthe knife handle.http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/maps/map6.jpgI apologize if this has already been discussed, I did asearch and could find nothing about it."Lost links has it:http://www.insondable.net/rafiot_mort.htmAda..."Bless you, Consensi!Odysseus, Dad, that's all I can say, but follow Consensi. It's a good lead."annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:27 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMhere are the words in french and in english...Le rafiot de la mortLe rafiot de la mort Te nargue près du vieux port Tu devras t'embarquer Mais d'abord faut payer Sans savoir où aller Sans pouvoir discuter Faut subir l'agonie
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:32:51)
The hero's journey was described by the mythologist Joseph Campbell in his ground breaking book, The Hero's Journey. He argued that the hero's journey was a 'monomyth' that could be found in all societies. The monomyth was that the hero would go through different stages of a journey of self-empowerment and self-discovery that would forever change both the hero and the society in which he lived. fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>The first stage of the hero's journey, the 'call to adventure', begins with the hero feeling discontent with the dominant values of his society. The hero then sets out to find a new set of values by which to live. In the process, the hero detaches himself from the practices and beliefs of his former life. In the second stage, the hero undergoes an arduous series of challenges to prove his self-worth. This is the heart of the hero's journey since it is here that the hero discovers himself. Two challenges are central in this stage. One is to overcome a fragmented sense of self that breeds self-doubt. The other is to discover one's 'life mission'. The sense of deja vu that is often experienced here makes this more of a recovery of something lost than a discovery of something completely new. This stage of the hero's journey can therefore be described as the 'great remembering'. In the third stage, the 'return to society', the hero returns to his society with the charismatic energy and moral vision to reform it. The hero becomes a great moral teacher, enlightened political leader, or visionary prophet. The critical component in the return to society is that the hero has achieved a synthesis of moral vision and worldly power that forever alters the society in which he lives. This really reminds me of both Jack and Locke. I think they are both entering the third stage of a Heros Journey? Someone who knows more about this could enlighten me please!annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 09:06 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMthis is from Dad_of_4's thread...Took this from Ypls thread Not sure who was asking the questions in Bold but A's responses follow:I can't wait to find out more about Jack. What makes this guy tick?What makes Jack tick? The belief that all people are important, here for a reason, worth the fight. Jack is a hero. Heroes believe in mankind, that's why they make the journeyWho does Jack currently love? I mean I know he and Kate will end up together no matter how hard he tries not to let that happen, but does he love her madly? I havent seen it yet.It's not Kate! Will he and Kate end up together? They might, but not any time soon! As you are going to learn, neither one is in a place in their lives where that could be an outcome. They have some things that they need to address before "you and me" becomes a "we". What does Jack love?Good question! Spend some time on this one.Lastly, someone in the group will be the Shadow, or the seemingly good person who slowly reveals their nature to be evil.Sun? She is about the only one that we have seen with out some sort of skeleton in the closet. She is earning Jacks trust and everyone elses. I'll be keeping an eye out for her.Sun. Not saying a word on her true nature here, but you haven't heard her story yet. You know that she had concerns about the man she loves. You know that she had been controlled as a child by her father (yes you do, watch her responses in the FBs). You know that here on the island, for the first time in her life, she is now making her own choices. But who was Sun? She seems very erudite on certain subjects, doesn't she?Locke. Was helping his dad with a kidney a Hero's Journey? It didn't turn out so good for him in the end. Does this Journey keep repeating?Locke's character was supposed to die. The first thought was for him to be the one found in the tree (Changed to Charlie), but public reaction to Walkabout made everyone stop and go "HUH?". It happened on several things this year, and at times, the plot shited just a couple of weeks before airing.So, Locke was not framed or bibled as a hero. He is the only character who is a wild card in all of this. What is going to happen with him? You're going to have wait and find out. He has heroic tendancies, but is he the shadow? There are certainly some moments coming up when you will wonder!How about a leave him at that for now! Have fun.chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 09:52 AM reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMAnni --- when I was reading along the past few days, I understood where you were going with the Jarvis stuff --- looking for interesting, maybe insightful parallels to our island, right?I think that Slpy's "The Hero's Journey" thread is worth a read all the way through (some of the Ada that Anni just posted came from that thread). I'm guessing that who Jack loves and has to let go is Sarah because of the Heart and Soul clue (I've also seen some good speculation that it is his dad --- he hasn't had the opportunity to grieve him yet)Some more thoughts on "rafiot" (I'm trying to start over from the beginning on this), several possibilities:A tub is a container, it is used for holding things. Maybe the "rafiot" is an island used to hold or contain someone, the way Odysseus was held on Calypso's island for 7 years. In this possibility, did Danielle write the name of the "prisoner" on the island?
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:33:12)
Another possible direction, "The Tub of Death" poem makes me think about Odysseus's journey to the underworld... I'm leaning away from this because I'm guessing that the good thing about the poem is its use of the word rafiot, not the overall meaning of the poem itself (just a guess)...fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>And yet another possibility, a tub as a vessel, although I thought the pointers in ET 4 were away from the rafiot being a shipwrecked boat... a crashed plane maybe?Just trying to get some more possibilities out there since I'm questioning the whirlpool thing right now...MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:04 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMWell, I was looking into Kelvin waves a bit more and came across something that made me think of "rafiot" as "tub"... Kelvin wave?A type of low-frequency gravity wave trapped to a vertical boundary, or the equator, which propagates anticlockwise (in the Northern Hemisphere) around a basin.http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/search?id=kelvin-wave1Then looked up "basin":A watershed or catchment basin is the region of land whose water drains into a specified body of water, such as a river, lake, sea, or ocean. Rain that falls anywhere within a given body of water's watershed will eventually drain into that body of water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basinand...An oceanic basin is a large, low-lying underwater area in an ocean. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_basinThough, I'm not sure if or how this would fit Danielle's Rafiot notation... unless that is indeed the location of some sort of water basin.... where the "dangerous rivers" flow into?chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 10:48 AM reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMJust saw this reply from Ada on another thread:Dad, you are a glutton for punishment! Hey, in your rafiot search? We used a lesser known French term for action of a tub. Where did Odysseus meet one?Charybdis. Not saying it's pertinent this season, but you want to see something turn a guy into little crushed pieces? So I guess maybe all of my self-doubt on the Charybdis thing was unneccessary... jademiraxRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:01 AM reply 26 Posts Registered: Jan 20, 2005 03:39 AMHello!! Ive been reading these posts for forever, but cant get caught up to you guys. On the first page someone said the info has been archived. Where can I find that? I really want to know whats been figured out and see if I can contribute. Thanks!!!jademiraxRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:05 AM reply 26 Posts Registered: Jan 20, 2005 03:39 AMdraging my post back from george.....MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:08 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMjade, on the first post of this thread you'll find links to the previous parts of this thread. The "archive" reference was, I think, in reference to cac and need maybe saving hardcopies, or file copies, of the first part of the thread before it is eliminated by the great board overseers.... since it is getting to be quite old. There is not easy access to those parts, and I imagine they must be huge files.
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:33:29)
click on those links on the first post though and you'll be taken to all our previous thread parts, and all our previous brilliance (or our mumblings in the corner.fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:09 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMchen, i'm glad you were redeemed!To be honest, I don't remember your original Charybdis post. My apologies. : ( Would you mind posting it again here? I'd love to hear it.crazylostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:12 AM reply 16 Posts Registered: Oct 25, 2004 08:03 AMHey everyone, (I don't want to try and name names because I woudn't want to leave anyone out)Just wanted to let you know I think you all are great!! I love reading all your theories and ideas. I'm not sure what theory I subscribe to yet, I just love lost because it is a great show.. You guys have great minds and I have learned alot about things I would never have known about if I hadn't been reading on all of your research. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more!! You guys Rock!!!!! chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:13 AM reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMME --- It really wasn't a big deal, just a short post about the action of a tub could be draining, and that could fit with the Odysseus clue being Charybdis, the whirlpool... it gained momentum and we drew conclusions from there. By the way, I've seen other people post the same thing in response to the "rafiot" clues Ada gave, so it's not like it was a brilliant, unique thought!annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:14 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMME, good connections there. maybe the monsoon will fill this 'basin'...chen... oh, man! can you help me out here? i read all of that in high school....years ago. i don't know the story well enough to make any connections. can you give some kind of summary and how you see it tying in for me?jade, i think that need is archiving for cac. cac isn't expected to be on until after tonights episode, so you may not get a reply until then, but i am sure she will help you out!jademiraxRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:16 AM reply 26 Posts Registered: Jan 20, 2005 03:39 AMthanks mefedrich519Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:20 AM reply 2558 Posts Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PMHey everyone! Just wanted to pop in and wish everyone a Happy Lost Day!brain, you are right that the island is quite large. Thnk of the mileage references we have gotten this season. Two miles east of here, and yes the beach and caves are a mile apart, and the biggest I remember 4 miles south of here. FOUR miles? That is one big freakin island if two points are four miles apart. Also, roll back some of the episodes and look how big the mountains are.chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:27 AM
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMcrazylost --- welcome!Anni --- When Odysseus is on his journey home he reaches a point where he has two alternatives, either sail past Charybdis, who swallows up the sea up in a whirlpool and then spits it back out, or sail past Scylla, a six-headed monster. He chooses to sail past Scylla and loses a man to each of the monster's six mouths...So what sucks up the sea in a whirlpool??? Some kind of water intake, maybe? A water version of a vacuum cleaner??? I'm not sure...annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:31 AM reply 347 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMthanks chen! so this could be the culprit for joanna's drowning, scott's (or was it steve?)broken bones, and the 'whale's blowhole' that our diary writer sees...right?chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:35 AM reply 124 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMAnni --- I'm guessing it must account for AT LEAST one of those things... We need some explanations/answers for some of what's gone on so far, right?Do you have any thoughts about the figure drawn on the map above "rafiot"? About what is written on it?MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 02:04 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMFYI - Oahu is 386,500 acres, or 604 square miles.http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/soilsurvey/5is/Htm/howmade.htmneedcaffeineRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 02:39 PM reply 1988 Posts Registered: Jan 04, 2005 11:26 AMHi everyone. Just stopping by to say "Cac check your email."And by the way I'm the 100th post on this new thread!OneisLostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 06:31 PM reply 478 Posts Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AMWe're getting LOST in the mix tonight. I was right about the poison. cac120Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 06:37 PM | reply 2022 Posts Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PMI'm back and just checked my email. Thanks, Need. I was back in time to watch the early airing of the new episode, too!I see you've all been very talkative while I've been gone. Hopefully I'll be able to catch up in the morning.I was wrong about the poison, but I was right about Walt having a vision about the hatch. It thought it might be in a dream, but this was more akin to Claire's psychic.
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:34:10)
MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Posted: May 11, 2005 07:33 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMOne, what did you say about the poison? What was your theory? I don't remember.My theory was always that it was Sun, but I don't remember who I thought she was poisoning - but I don't think I said Michael. VERY interesting that it as all Kate's idea though. Man, is SHE sneaky or what?MaetrenaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 07:30 PM reply 74 Posts Registered: Feb 26, 2005 10:02 PMOkay... Here's some questions that I had when I was watching tonight's episode- What's up with the Jack/ Locke relationship? Why did they at least pretend to kiss and make up? - Is there anything important about Cedar Rapids or Iowa in general that might tie back to the California trifecta... Tustin, Irvine, and Malibu?- We got some numbers in tonight's episode... 8 and 15. Which is the same numbers that we heard about in Deux and they correspond with the Feast of the Assumption.- Why was Kate's mother screaming in the MRI room? MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 07:40 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMMae: - Is there anything important about Cedar Rapids or Iowa in general that might tie back to the California trifecta... Tustin, Irvine, and Malibu?Mae... why do you ask? Did they mention Cedar Rapids or Iowa tonight? I guess I missed that.. Maybe that's where they started - is that where the liscense plate was from that she was removing from the car?Mae: - We got some numbers in tonight's episode... 8 and 15. Which is the same numbers that we heard about in Deux and they correspond with the Feast of the Assumption.The date that was given on the tape of Kate and Tom when they were kids was August 15, 1989. August 15 = 815Mae: - Why was Kate's mother screaming in the MRI room? My take on it is, she started screaming after she seemed to grasp who was standing next to her. At first she seemed amazed - it was her daughter. And then after it sank in, she started to scream "HELP!"... and looking at Kate in terror... as if terrified of Kate. Now, my first thought was that Kate had done something terrible to her - but Kate's affect and reaction didn't reflect this. Kate's affect and reaction reflected great sadness and pain. So, my thought is that Kate's mum might have paranoid schizophrenia.Hmmmmmm... think Kate's mum was part of some mind control experiment at some point in her life - with the cancer and all?And, remember Sawyer's uncle who had a brain tumor that killed him? Hmmmmmm...cac: I was wrong about the poison, but I was right about Walt having a vision about the hatch. It thought it might be in a dream, but this was more akin to Claire's psychic.cac, wasn't Walt having a vision about the hatch a spoiler for the past week or two, and also the promo this past week? didn't we already know he had a vision? Or at least I figured he had some sort of premonition or vision or something...Message was edited by: MEandtheseaHugoBoppRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 07:37 PM reply 95 Posts Registered: Oct 22, 2004 01:49 PMAm I the only person who is frustrated here? You guys are all caught up on minute details that are getting you LOST.None of this matters. The Others are coming.The island was set up as a modern Leper Colony - the Hatch is a quarantine. What ever disease The Others have will turn the 2nd season into a game of cat and mouse with people struggling not to become infected and wondering who has been infected.
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:34:29)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 07:46 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMNope, I'm not frustrated, HugoBopp... I'm having fun! Enjoying the show. Oh, and I'm also having SUCH delight getting Lost by getting caught up on minute details with all these wonderful people here. If you have it all figured out, then I guess you can just call it a year and hang tight until fall. Meanwhile, we're all having a blast! Or at least I am!MaetrenaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:09 PM reply 74 Posts Registered: Feb 26, 2005 10:02 PMME... If your paranoid schizophernia theory is right, then Kate's mom isn't the only one who has it. Emily Annabeth Locke also has schizophrenia; Locke's mom is also the one associated with the 8/15 numbers.osolostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:29 PM reply 17 Posts Registered: Mar 09, 2005 10:25 PMHello all of you....Long time no Lost Forum for me...I have a huge favor to ask... I am trying to watch tonights episode and either my cable company or the ABC feed is broken up... HELP!!! What was in the envelope that Kate collected from the motel? The feed cut at that point...What happened in the hospital? Feed cut there too! ARGHHHHHHHH!Also, what happened once Sayid brough Jack to the hatch and Locke!GOD! I AM FREAKING OUT HERE!Please someone tell me!!!*Tears and cussing*osolostMEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 08:35 PM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMMae, your're right about Emily having paranoid schizophrenia too - I definitely remembered that - which is one reason I thought maybe that is what might be up with Kate's mum too, in addition to the cancer.But here's another thought....maybe Kate's family thought she was dead. Maybe Kate was in/ is in witness protection. Mum has been led to believe Kate is dead (reason Kate is apologizing)... but then, when she sees Kate, while on her own death bed, mum freaks out and yells "help!"... having just seen a ghost?What I find a bit odd though is - she told Tom "Diane Jeson has cancer." Why wouldn't she just say "my mom has cancer", if that's her mom? Was it a step mom? Foster mom? Is that why here last name was different than Kate's?Message was edited by: MEandtheseaosolostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 11, 2005 09:47 PM reply 17 Posts Registered: Mar 09, 2005 10:25 PMAw shucks... I give!No more lost for me!osolostfigment_Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 01:00 AM
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:34:47)
Posted: May 12, 2005 01:00 AM fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>reply 510 Posts Registered: Apr 09, 2005 11:47 AMBumping...daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:20 AM reply 180 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMME, or maybe at least one of them is Kate's, which Tom and his wife are raising, since Kate is "dead"? Is one of them Tom and Kate's child?I think the child is Tom and his wife's because when Kate commented that it was beautiful, Tom said, "It's all Rachael really." Or something like that. Implying that it got its good looks from its mum.Walt knew about the hatch when Locke touched his arm. He read it through Locke. He also knows, now, that they must leave the island. He wanted to stay originally but when Michael told him that they could stay, he said, "No we need to leave." That's because he knows that they are going to open the hatch and shouldn't. What confuses me about this is that Locke seems to really understand the island, why would he not know that opening the hatch is wrong? Maybe the two forces (black/white, good/evil) are both working on the losties. The good have gotten hold of Walt and the bad has gotten hold of Locke. And that's where the split will be. A good group and a bad group. I don't mean that the people in the groups are either good or bad but that they believe things that will either help or harm the losties even if they aren't maliciously making decisions.Did that make sense?OneisLostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 06:00 AM reply 478 Posts Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AMME, I said poison was a woman's weapon and also speculated Sun was doing it. Reasons were different.Kate-suspect she was being abused re: the message on the tape from the time capsule. Things may have escalated after they made the tape and she did something to her father or torched the house, etc. If she's in protective custody, she might have turned state's evidence against him in a court martial/trial over something she learned.Wasn't August 15th one of the dates the portals were opened? Thought that was brought up several incarnations ago...Don't think the children were her's. Got the impression she was mourning what she "lost" because of other circumstances.How did the plane get from the car to the envelop at the bank? Is Tom not dead afterall? Who else would have known what it would mean to Kate?ARGH! I hate not being able to tape these so I can watch again.pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 06:46 AM reply 94 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMMe: Cedar rapids was where Tom's wife Rachel was visiting her parents.I love your Kate's mom has schizophrenia theory. Good catch on her last name. I didn't catch it either time I watched. So she may not be Kate's biological mother, eh? Hmmm.Did anyone else catch the fact that all the major suspects had a hand in Michaels poisoning? We know about Sun and Kate, but Walt inadvertantly had a hand in it to. When Michael was working on the raft and Walt approached him, Michael asked Walt to hand him his water. It was walt who got the bottles mixed up and handed him Jin's instead. I guess he's only psycic when it comes to touching living tissue, not inanimate objects. MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 07:04 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMok, i don't think that the any of the kids in the photos are Kate's. I amended that idea from my earlier post - was only something I tossed out there in Brainstorming... but doesn't seem likely to me. As I said in other post, I think she was looking at the photos longingly, even a bit jealous, wishing she was the one married to Tom with children... a real family.SmidgeInNHRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 07:01 AM reply
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:35:04)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>740 Posts Registered: Mar 29, 2005 06:42 AMOneIsLost:Kate-suspect she was being abused re: the message on the tape from the time capsule. Things may have escalated after they made the tape and she did something to her father or torched the house, etc. If she's in protective custody, she might have turned state's evidence against him in a court martial/trial over something she learned.This caught my eye - could it be that the reason Kate was on the run, and wanted, was because she didn't show up in court? Maybe to testify against her stepfather?MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 07:21 AM reply 1653 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMOne: ME, I said poison was a woman's weapon and also speculated Sun was doing it. Reasons were different.Are we sure though that this is the "poisoning" that we have been hearing about? It seemed like Sun put poison in the water just that one time - as Jack said, it worked very quickly. I thought we heard that the poisoning (the spoiler we were trying to figure out) had been happening for a while.Ada, can you tell us if the poisoning in Born to Run (i.e., Sun accidentally poisoning Michael while trying to poison Jin) was the poisoning in the spoiler... the one that furphy referred to at one point - someone was being poisoned, and it had been going on for quite a while?One: Kate-suspect she was being abused re: the message on the tape from the time capsule. One, I thought this too... the minute I heard it!fedrich519Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 09:34 AM reply 2599 Posts Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PMMorning everyone!Great episode! Have a few thoughts. Of course we have more questions than answers coming away from this one.Thinking about Kate's mom. What motivated her reaction? Are we seeing it? At first I thought Diane was terrified for her life, like Kate would actually do her harm. But nothing about Kate's weeping and apologizing seemed very threatening to me. What if Diane thought she was hallucinating and loosing her mind? What if Kate had faked her death or was in some witness protection of sorts and Diane thought she was dead? What if Diane was terrified because she thought she was looking at a ghost?daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 09:35 AM reply 182 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMThe impression I got was that Kate had been abused by her stepdad. (That would account for her having a different name to her mum.) And that as a result of the abuse, she killed him. (That would account for her being wanted by the law.) I think her mum was shouting for help because, as some mothers do, she sided with her husband and didn't believe Kate about the abuse and thinks that Kate murdered her husband for no apparent reason.OK, now I'm going to watch it again, so I'll be back later with anything else I notice, second time around.annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 10:11 AM reply 349 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMME...Are we sure though that this is the "poisoning" that we have been hearing about?i have also wondered the same thing. i found myself going...'this is what the big poisoning thing has been all about?' i really don't think so. i still wonder if Jack isn't the one. something is wrong with him (although, he was acting better in this episode). about the abuse...i said it aloud the second we heard the tape. i also thought than since she asked for Diane Jenson that Diane was a foster mom. that would be one more to add to our raised by another...if it turns out to be. and if the abuse was 'daddy', well then, daddy issues again as well.i always tought kate was an innocent, as she might really be (when you get the heart of what exactly she's done), but she has certainaly adapted to her lifestyle of running. by the way, the 1st license plate was nebraska, and the second one was ohio. they are in iowa. the name on the letter she picked up was Joan Heart. there was money in it. someone is sending her letters and money. who?
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:35:20)
i also wondered about the airplane (the small one). how did she end up with it? and then i thought about it. she got it from the 'marshals' case. did the marshal have it all along? or did he take it off of kate when he arrested her? the plane was inside the envelope she got out of the safe deposit box, right? so who put it in there for her? who would have known how much those belongings meant to her? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>also, i will admit when i am wrong and you all are right...Dr. Artz was not Bernard after all!kate said she spent 2 summers crewing J-boats. tom's car was locked. as we walked up to it, he hit the auto unlock....so kate knows how to break into cars as well.notice jin still has one of the handcuffs around his wrist! what? no one can pick a lock?regarding the hatch, jack just automatically assumes that it is a shelter/capsule of some sort. he says best case it has supplies, worst case they use it as a shelter. intersting too, that kate and tom burried a time capsule...just seems interesting...their very own little hatch, holding secrets/info from the past.why was the name on Joanna's passport Barbara Miller? was joanna a middle name? strange.sides. sayid wants to bury the hatch. wanted jack on his side. locke wants it open (we knew this)...which side will jack choose?i enjoyed jack and lockes cat and mouse game. the two of them together could accomplish great things...but their strong personalities just seem to keep fighting. if they could lay down their egos, it might be amazing to see what becomes of them!i thought a couple of times of "we always hurt the ones we love" in this episode...sun/jin (but was actually Micheal...hmmmm)kate/jack (when he heard she wanted on the raft...he kind of winced a little, like he didn't know, and it hurt him)jack/kate (when he asked her if she poisoned micheal and she asked if he thought she was capable of that...he said, 'i don't know what you're capable of')walt/micheal (when he admited to burning the raft)kate/diane 'mom' (don't know how, but she said she was sorry for it)kate/tom (got him killed)sawyer/kate (when he told her that there wasn't anything on the island worth staying for)jin/sun (by leaving)walt didn't seem to know anything until locke touched him. walt went to locke to say that he didn't hurt his dad. and it was only when locke touched his arm that he reeled back and got freaked out...that is when he jerked his arm away and told him not to open the 'thing'.annipadanniRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 10:17 AM reply 349 Posts Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AMi have a question. have any of you noticed the continuing use of the month August? i am working on going back and seeing how many references we've had, but i noticed it a couple of weeks ago, and thought "hmmm". but i forgot again until last night with the 'August 15, 1989" referrence.....any ideas?OneisLostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 10:48 AM reply 481 Posts Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AMi enjoyed jack and lockes cat and mouse game. the two of them together could accomplish great things...but their strong personalities just seem to keep fighting. if they could lay down their egos, it might be amazing to see what becomes of them!My take on this is that Jack sees something in Locke that reminds him of his father. Jack was yelling at this father when he went after Locke last episode, not at Locke alone. He equated Lockes actions with his dad's on the pregnant lady. In a way, this lets Jack off the hook with himself for not saving those two patients but, he still can't let them go.Another thing, thought Sayid's comment about it being "obvious" was a clue. The way he said it. I can't relate it to anything though. Was he just talking about opening the hatch or something else as well? Pics on fridge: some of them look like they were taken in Hawaii. Were Tom/Rachel there at the same time Jack was getting married? Was Kate lurking around too? Think Rachel might be her sister and could even be her twin. Not identical. Maybe they don't know they are related. Maybe they were split up in foster homes very young. Just a thought.daviscblsRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 10:57 AM reply 182 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMSecond time around viewing. Wow what a brilliant epi! Observations and more questions:Can anyone make out the date on any of the number plates? The one on Kate's car, any of them in her car, the one on Tom's car as they drive out of the car park. I still have a VCR and the quality isn't good enough. It would help to date the FB.ME, I just realised that there are two children on Tom's fridge but neither him nor Kate mention the older one. Did it die? Or, was it a child that Tom and Kate had together? If it was I can't imagine Kate not asking about it.Tom mentioned flying to Dallas.
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:35:41)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>I think Kate's parents were her foster parents.Locke has feeling in his legs again. He told Walt that his ?accident' hurt.Kate's mum starts to cry when she first sees her, it's only after a few seconds that she acts frightened and starts to yell for help.How did the plane get into the safety deposit box? Kate left it in the car. Remind me please someone. Which country was Kate in when they held up the bank?Ok, as usual I have to include something way out there... When Tom wheels Diane out of the MRI room there is an announcement. I have listened over and over again and just can't make it out. Could it be ?Paging Dr. Shepherd to coronary care' or am I just clutching at straws?Message was edited by: daviscblsOneisLostRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 01:37 PM reply 481 Posts Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AMKate's mum starts to cry when she first sees her, it's only after a few seconds that she acts frightened and starts to yell for help.I can't watch it again, did the mother only start yelling for help after she realized Kate was touching her? This could be forshadowing for Walt or it could also mean Kate is psychic or has other abilities. MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 02:07 PM reply 1655 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMfed: Thinking about Kate's mom. What motivated her reaction? Are we seeing it? At first I thought Diane was terrified for her life, like Kate would actually do her harm. But nothing about Kate's weeping and apologizing seemed very threatening to me. What if Diane thought she was hallucinating and loosing her mind? What if Kate had faked her death or was in some witness protection of sorts and Diane thought she was dead? What if Diane was terrified because she thought she was looking at a ghost?Fed, I posted the exact same thing already - on page 8 of this thread... third post up from the bottom. Great minds!anni: why was the name on Joanna's passport Barbara Miller? was joanna a middle name? strange.anni, I assumed they were two different passports. She may have scavenged several passports to use once she gets off the island. Sawyer simply picked up Joanne's.anni: i also wondered about the airplane (the small one). how did she end up with it? and then i thought about it. she got it from the 'marshals' case. did the marshal have it all along? or did he take it off of kate when he arrested her? the plane was inside the envelope she got out of the safe deposit box, right? so who put it in there for her? who would have known how much those belongings meant to her? Well, the airplane was in marshal's hailburton case... in the small green envelope that was in the safety deposit box, and then in a manilla envelope marked "personal effects", I believe. So, maybe he took the stuff off of Kate when he caught her.daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 03:58 PM reply 185 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMMy husband and I both think the date on the number plate could be 1994, what do you think?http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=450&pos=55pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:18 PM reply 95 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMDaviscbls, re:the hospital page,I think it said "Dr. Chaplin to neuro ICU". I listened closely the second time around for the same reason.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:27 PM reply 1663 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
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davis, the only problem with using the liscense plate registration sticker to date the FB is, it looks like those are all old plates that Kate stole... so might the inspection stickers be old too? The most we can say right now i think is that the FB must not be earlier than those dates...fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>I'll take a look at that plate and see if i can see if I'm seeing the same date...daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:24 PM reply 185 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMIt definately says coronary care, unless there was more than one page. It was the doctor's name that I couldn't hear.daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:32 PM reply 185 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMME, the only problem with using the liscense plate registration sticker to date the FB is, it looks like those are all old plates that Kate stole... so might the inspection stickers be old too?If Kate were running from the law, wouldn't she be sure to use a current plate so as not to be pulled over?MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:41 PM reply 1663 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMdavis, if she uses an old plate for a state different from the one she's in, then the police would be less likely to notice the sticker is old. The stickers in each state are usually a certain color for each given year, but I don't think it's consistent state to state. So, the police in Iowa can probably easily notice if an Iowa sticker isn't current by the color (when driving by, etc)... but wouldn't be as easy to pick up on an out of state plate. Otherwise, how on earth do you think she'd be able to collect such a large supply of current plates? I guess she could just steal them off cars, I suppose...MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 04:46 PM reply 1663 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMI just noticed this... if you look at the large version of the screen cap on this page... you'll see that the showbox says "Brown Shoe" on it:http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=450&pos=52Do you think this is a clue? The Brown Shoe company originated as Buster Brown in St. Louis, Missouri. However, stepping away (harhar) from the literal "shoe" connection... thinking of it as a slang term as a clue... i found this under a list of military slang:brown shoe (US Air Force) Things and people related to the time that the Air Corps was a subsidiary unit of the US Army. When the Air Force became an independent unit black shoes replaced the brown shoes worn by the Army at that time.(US Navy) Things and people related to the naval aviation community. From the time when brown shoes were only authorized for aviation ratings and officers.http://www.answers.com/topic/military-slangI was actually looking up "brown shoe" as a slang term because I thought it was slang for a PI. Is that right, or am I thinking of something else? Anyway, I thought the possibility of a military clue is quite interesting!! Ada, am I right, or on to something? Is "Brown Shoe" on the shoebox a clue?cac120Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 05:09 PM | reply 2026 Posts Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PMI see that I have much catching up to do here.
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I see that I have much catching up to do here.fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Chen (May 09, 2005 12:59 PM):on A's students' map 1, I saw your note that we should look at it in reverse, and so then is north at the top? I can't see the full compass rose on this link to it. And I think you had an opinion about where our survivors camp is on that map... if you do, could you share it again?If you hold a map so that the crater is at the bottom (I like the composite one for this purpose), then I think the beach camp is to the left of the crater while the cave camp is above it to the right on the river.brain (May 09, 2005 04:08 PM):Unless they hit a silly vortex and "transported" to another vortex where the island is -- like a "hot" or "cold" vortex takes you to a neutral one. That's basically what I think happened, so I don't think the island necessarily has to be exactly where the plane and Danielle's ship disappeared. I do think they fell into the same portal, though, so they probably disappeared in the same place. I disagree with the portals being on a grid; I think the numbers are used to locate them.Good work on locating the island ME and Anni! Even though the Lost Island is fictional, I think we know a lot more about it's history now.ME (May 09, 2005 05:45 PM}:Well, this is what the pilot said:"Six hours in, our radio went out. No one could see us. We turned back to land in Fiji. By the time we hit turbulence, we were a thousand miles off course. They're looking for us in the wrong place."So, the air traffic controlers would know where they were at 6 hours in, but not after that. When air traffic controll lost track of them, they turned back to land in Figi. Then, by the time they hit turbulance, they were 1,000 miles off course. So, I guess if he can tell they were 1,000 miles off course, then their GPS must have still been working. So, they must be 1,000 miles off the course of their route from wherever they were between "6 hours in" and Figi.He'd know they were 1000 miles off course by the fact that they'd turned back, the speed the plane was flying and the length of time before they hit turbulence. GPS doesn't have to be working.Thanks Ada (and ME) for the answer to the Science question.Davis(May 10, 2005 09:35 AM):Another thought on Sayid claiming Essam's body, what did he do with it? Would he have had time to make arrangements for a Muslim burial in one day? Did he take it with him on the plane, as Jack did with his dad?I think that Muslims HAVE to be buried within 24 hours of dying, so funeral homes and Mosques would be accomodating and Essam would be burried in Australia.I think the beach camp probably faces west. We have seen them sit on the beach and watch the sunset.That's what I thought too, but last night Artz pointed north and south, indicating the beach is on the eastern shore of the island. Now I'm confused.That reminds me. I still haven't answered these questions. MEandthesea (May 10, 2005 06:14 PM):Off the current Lost topic, but has anyone else wondered why they don't boil the water before drinking it or filling their water bottles with it?I thought about this when they first found water, but decided they found a pure source and it's not necessary.Rafiot came up again, but I'm going to stick with what I was already thinking: It's the spot where Alex went down the drain of a whirlpool of EM waves. It's one of three places on the island that will be used to triangulate a fourth location.Charybdis also reminds me of the water being sucked up from the island's rivers and spit out at sea, as the diary writer described.Jade asked about the archiving of this thread. I have the first one saved in an AppleWorks document and Need saved the second in MSWord. They are still available here as well, but as I said, the first will not be here for long.ME (May 11, 2005 07:40 PM):cac, wasn't Walt having a vision about the hatch a spoiler for the past week or two, and also the promo this past week? didn't we already know he had a vision? Or at least I figured he had some sort of premonition or vision or something...The spoiler only said that Walt warns Locke not to open the hatch. I said this was because he probably had a prophetic dream about it.ME, are you thinking of 'gum shoe' for a PI? I noticed Brown Shoe when I was watching and wondered if it was a clue. Maybe the person who sent the letter is in the military?And one more observation before I go attempt to catch up on another thread:Sun hurt Jin the same way Jin hurt the man he was sent to kill -- hurting just enough to save his life.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 05:13 PM reply 1667 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMcac: He'd know they were 1000 miles off course by the fact that they'd turned back, the speed the plane was flying and the length of time before they hit turbulence. GPS doesn't have to be working.cac, do you really think he had time to do the math and figure this all out in his head while the plane was being torn apart, or while knocked unconscious? LOL!MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Posted: May 12, 2005 05:21 PM reply 1667 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMcac: That's what I thought too, but last night Artz pointed north and south, indicating the beach is on the eastern shore of the island. Now I'm confused.cac, I thought that when Artz was using his windsock showing which direction the tradewinds were blowing now.... he was pointed inland - indicating the winds were blowing north, and pointed in the opposite direction - to the beach and ocean... for south. So, from that, I thought indicated that the beach is on the south side.Hmmmmm....Oh, and yes, cac... I was thinking of "gum shoe" - thanks!! I'm glad i looked up slang for Brown Shoe though - because that military connection is interesting. I'm not sure if it really relates who sent Kate the letter, or is maybe about Kate's story... could be about her father... or yes, maybe whomever sent the letter. MaetrenaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 06:05 PM reply 78 Posts Registered: Feb 26, 2005 10:02 PMi enjoyed jack and lockes cat and mouse game. the two of them together could accomplish great things...but their strong personalities just seem to keep fighting. if they could lay down their egos, it might be amazing to see what becomes of them!The "Lock"e and the key (as in Jack's)... you need both of them to open the island's mysteries now don't you, which means that Jack and Locke are going to be sniping at each other for a long time. However, since their conflicts are so interesting, that's fine with me. Here's another round of questions that I've come up with after rewatching Born to Run...- Someone knew where Kate was and was providing her with money, and it wasn't Tom or her mother. Who was it? I'm thinking a younger sibling, sympathetic relative, etc.- Why does Sawyer want off the island so bad? I'm assuming that he's figured something out.RainnedropRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 06:19 PM reply 192 Posts Registered: Feb 20, 2005 02:54 PMA question...on one version of this thread there had been much speculation that Kate was actually working with the marshall and not the prisoner. Any changes to that theory after last night's episode? I seem to now think that she was in fact the prisoner. Unless I missed something.MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 06:35 PM reply 1667 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMRain: A question...on one version of this thread there had been much speculation that Kate was actually working with the marshall and not the prisoner. Any changes to that theory after last night's episode? I seem to now think that she was in fact the prisoner. Unless I missed something.For me, this doesn't really change much. I think Kate might have loved that everyone thought the guy was a sky marshal. She knew they suspected this all along. I think it only supporter her "cover" even more... so she went with it. Just because Kate said he was indeed a sky marshal doesn't mean it's true. She's lied about almost everything - except i think it's safe to say her name really is Kate... and she does think the killed the man she loves. And as we all suspected, it was indirect.RainnedropRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 06:40 PM reply 192 Posts Registered: Feb 20, 2005 02:54 PMI think it only supporter her "cover" even more... so she went with itME..that's true. She did give up that info. fairly easily. I was reading A's thread (Questions) and there was speculation about Tom's age and really being a doctor. If it helps my cousin is a doc. at 29. Additionally, Diane possibly being a stepmom etc. confirming "raised by another" has anyone ever mentioned that jean-jaques rousseau was raised by another?chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Posted: May 12, 2005 06:51 PM reply 125 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMAbout the wind direction and camp location:ME said,cac, I thought that when Artz was using his windsock showing which direction the tradewinds were blowing now.... he was pointed inland - indicating the winds were blowing north, and pointed in the opposite direction - to the beach and ocean... for south. So, from that, I thought indicated that the beach is on the south side.That's what I thought Artz was saying, too, but then toward the end of the episode, it seemed like you could see the glow of the setting sun toward the east end of the beach (if Artz's directions were correct) and that's just not possible! After last night, I'm much more confused about where they are...Oh, by the way, Cac, while you were gone, I did some work on my own trying to figure out where to place the beach camp on Danielle's map and my guess was the same as yours, but like I just said, after last night, I think I have to look at all of that again...Unless Artz.'s "north" was actually more like northeast and his "south" was more like southwest...Message was edited by: chenmeinaMaetrenaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 07:23 PM reply 81 Posts Registered: Feb 26, 2005 10:02 PMArtz's seems like a pompous know-it-all who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about, but that doesn't keep him from believing that he does. As for the directions, we already know that they're off (the broken compass).cac120Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 07:30 PM | reply 2031 Posts Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PMME, I think 1000 miles is a round enough number that the pilot was probably guessing.Mae:- Someone knew where Kate was and was providing her with money, and it wasn't Tom or her mother. Who was it? I'm thinking a younger sibling, sympathetic relative, etc.Someone posted a transcript of the letter and said that it looked like an older woman's writing. Maybe her grandmother?- Why does Sawyer want off the island so bad? I'm assuming that he's figured something out.He told Kate that he had no reason to stay. More importantly, her concession confirmed that he's right about her not being a reason for him to stay and that she does have a reason to stay in Jack.Rain:A question...on one version of this thread there had been much speculation that Kate was actually working with the marshall and not the prisoner. Any changes to that theory after last night's episode? I seem to now think that she was in fact the prisoner.I'd like to hear Fed's answer to this. It's possible that she WAS a prisoner at the time of the flight, but that she was an agent before this, but I still think it was a cover she's still maintaining. possibly to catch Sun, to whom Kate is getting even closer.chen:Unless Artz.'s "north" was actually more like northeast and his "south" was more like southwest...What if Artz is using a compass? Inland would be North (toward the Black Rock). I doubt he'd have a compass, though, and even if he did, he'd have noticed where the sun sets by now. He does seem to be right about the approaching monsoon, so he probably knows which way North is.I'm glad you were able to come to the same conclusion independently about where the camp is.chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 07:34 PM reply 126 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMOne other thing I thought I'd share... in her Questions thread Ada said something about discretion, the better part of valor?... so I looked at the passage in Shakespeare where "The better part of valor is discretion" comes from... Falstaff sees an enemy approaching on the battlefield and lays down and plays dead, not very brave, but it saves his life...Locke and Jack are the ones who were bantering back and forth about discretion... it seems like they are the ones who want to go ahead and open the hatch... not exercising much of that discretion they keep talking about (in my opinion), especially if they are going to create an explosive to do so...What the dictionary says:Main Entry: dis·cre·tion 1 : the quality of being discreet : CIRCUMSPECTION; especially : cautious reserve in speech2 : ability to make responsible decisions3 a : individual choice or judgment <left the decision to his discretion> b : power of free decision or latitude of choice within certain legal bounds <reached the age of discretion>4 : the result of separating or distinguishing It seems like making choices has come into play a lot in the last several episodes...
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:37:11)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 08:04 PM reply 1668 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMmae: Artz's seems like a pompous know-it-all who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about, but that doesn't keep him from believing that he does. As for the directions, we already know that they're off (the broken compass).Mae, I don't think Artz was using a compass to determine direction. He is a science teacher, so I'm sure he at least knows how to determine "north" from the stars. Also, he's aware of which way the trade winds blow in that area, and then using his makeshift windsock, was able to determine the general direction of north.Just because he's pompus, it doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about. Frankly, I think he knew exactly what he was talking about - as all the reseach I've been doing for the last week is pretty much in synch with what he was saying. Unfortunately, it's because he IS pompus that people might not listen to him. Then again, Michael and crew moved up their travel plans severely when Artz said they should leave yesterday or else end up in Antarctica.atbchdiRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 08:14 PM reply 11 Posts Registered: May 11, 2005 09:52 AMI went to read about that quote regarding descretion and saw the part about playing dead. For some odd reason it made me think of Jack when French chick said die and then they cut to Jack. Anyway, may brain is crazy. Nothing to see here. Please continue.fedrich519Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 12, 2005 09:37 PM reply 2614 Posts Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PMSomeone ask for little ole me?Despite last night's ep, I still hold firm to the fact that a lot more is going on. The way Kate said "with...{thinking pause} Marshal" and how it seemed selective just felt odd. It was like she was going along with what Sawyer and everyone was already thinking.How long has Kate been on the run? We really don't know for sure, we are made to assume things, but what we are made to assume is often the wrong track completely.That being said, I can subscribe to Kate being undercover on the plane to carry out some undercover operation. I can also buy into Kate being a former agent of some sort that went rogue and she is being brought back to answer for herself. Sheesh, how many times has Jack Bauer gone rogue on 24? It would explain her familiarity with the "Marshal", possible colleague? It would also explain her chilling proficiency with firearms.On a sidenote, I love how Kate played Sun like a deck of cards to open up a seat on the raft. She really is a master manipulator.cac120Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 08:55 AM | reply 2035 Posts Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PMKate might even have been manipulating Sawyer so that he would reveal her secret.She know how quickly things escalated when they played "I Never" and she knows that he has a few things he can use against her if she raises the stakes to something he really wants, which she did by saying she wanted to go on the raft.If she really wanted to remain anonymous, wouldn't it be better to remain on the island and be one of 40 survivors who were picked up later than to be one of the first four? Wouldn't those four receive the most attention from the press?daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 11:42 AM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMI have a question. Is Kate naturally a blonde or a brunette? I would say that she is a brunette. If not, after a month on the island her blonde roots would be growing back by now. This is what's confusing me then. In the FB she started off as a blonde, then died her hair brown. But she obviously shouldn't have been visiting her mum in the hospital. There was an officer sat outside her door who Kate didn't want to see her and the police tried to stop her from leaving so she was obviously wanted by the law before her mum was taken ill. If she didn't want to be recognised while trying to visit her mum, why would she change her blonde hair back to her normal brown hair? Making it much easier for people in her home town to
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recognise her. Wouldn't it have made more sense for her to visit as a blonde or red head or even bald, anything but her normal hair color?fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>MEandtheseaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 12:23 PM reply 1671 Posts Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AMThere was an officer sat outside her door who Kate didn't want to see her and the police tried to stop her from leaving so she was obviously wanted by the law before her mum was taken ill.Do we know for sure that the officer was outside Diane's door? And even if he was, we don't know he was guarding the door against Kate. I mean, the woman was in the hospital for cancer, not because someone tried to kill her. Unless the woman has a police or security officer guarding her 24/7 on an ongoing basis, I don't know why she'd need one outside her door when she's been admitted for chemo. I get the impression that it's been a while since Kate's been home too... so it doesn't seem like everyone would still be that vigelant. I could tell Kate didn't want to be "seen" by the police, so her face must be "known"... but I'm not convinced the officer was outside Diane's room, or that he was there to guard her against Kate.daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 12:29 PM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMDo we know for sure that the officer was outside Diane's door?No, I guess we don't, but if Diane's room had not had an officer outside, wouldn't Kate have just gone in and seen her there and then? Another thing that makes me think she wasn't supposed to be visiting. If she was allowed to visit, she would have just asked which room her mother was in, not pretended to be a flower deliverer.pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 12:09 PM reply 118 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMUnless there's an APB out with a desription of a long haired blonde.However, the dye job was a little too close to natural. She could have picked something else if she wanted to visit where she might be easily recognised. daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 12:17 PM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMUnless there's an APB out with a desription of a long haired blonde.That's possible but it seemed to me that Kate had been running from the law for quite some time not just from her most recent adventure.pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 12:36 PM reply 118 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMTrue. But don't you want to know aboutt her most recent adventure(s)?I know I'll be looking for long haired blondes in everybodies fb's next season. Heck, I'll be checking out the background of this season's older fb's during repeats. This episode was a wealth of info. daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 12:43 PM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMI know I'll be looking for long haired blondes in everybodies fb's next season. Heck, I'll be checking out the background of this season's older fb's during repeats. Yes, I never thought of that, but it still doesn't explain why she went somewhere she didn't want to be recognised looking like herself, without a disguise.
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(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:37:48)
daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Posted: May 13, 2005 02:04 PM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMAnother question for the best minds on the board. Do we know for sure that the plane was in the safety deposit box? Do we actually see Kate take it out? I don't have it on tape and it doesn't show you on the screen caps.Thanks.Dad_of_4Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:07 PM reply 2359 Posts Registered: Oct 21, 2004 02:42 PMCAC - SEA - Sharper Knives et all -I started a thread on this and would love your sharp knife analysis:Ok the Mousetrap thing had to be something in Locke's ep.Now I know that it's a metaphor for all the machiations that have occured to get all the losties in one place and thus spring the trap.Nice ......I can even imagine all the writers sitting around the table and thinking just how complex all the little pieces had to be and then someone said, "Hey, like Mousetrap! When we were kids!" Then all the 20' somethings in the room went, "Huh" One of the old guys like Becker told some intern to run over to Toys R us and buy the game so they see it in action.Then someone said "OOO - That'd be cool if we could use that! But How?"They scratched their heads and someone was actually stupid enough to say, "Hey maybe Walt was bringing it home and had it on the plane."Yeah right.But there it is folks - The mousetrap game was foreshadowing how all the little complex parts had to be put in place to get all of our losties on the island.Fate + Choices = Lost.That's my story - Proof is in the pudding. Odds are long but I love the long shots.Thanks all - Popspau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:19 PM reply 118 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMNo, we don't know for sure that the plane was in the safety deposit box. Everyone seems to take it for granted though.chenmeinaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:25 PM reply 128 Posts Registered: Apr 08, 2005 07:49 AMDavis, about the little plane,I thought that I read an Ada post in the past few days that posed the question of how did the plane get from the back seat of the car into a bank safe deposit box... I've been searching for about 20 minutes to try to find that post, but I haven't had any luck so far... if I find it, I'll copy it here...Found it right after I posted...If you want something to work on, this FB is also out of order. This is the oldest FB that you have had on Kate. The license plate will give you a date. How did the plane end up in vault box in another state?Have fun!So I read this to mean that the plane was in the safe deposit box...Message was edited by: chenmeinadaviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:29 PM reply 198 Posts
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Registered:05/28/2005
Time spent: 13864 hours
(Date Posted:11/15/2005 10:38:04)
Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMfficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Thanks, chen, because I thought it was but I guess I was just assuming it was like everyone else. Maybe she wanted something else out of the safety deposit box and already had the plane with her when the Marshall picked her up.OK, just read the addition to your post. Does look as though it was in there then, thanks.Message was edited by: daviscblspau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:40 PM reply 118 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMHi, again!!! Kate retrieved an envelope from the safety deposit box. We wre never shown her opening said envelope. Once the haliburton was opened, Kate retrieved an envelope from the case. She opened it and voila! The plane. Were we lead to believe the envelopes were one and the same? Yes. Are they? They could be, but I've learned not to trust anything we are not actually shown.daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:40 PM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMThe only way I can think that it got there is the Tom's widow moved to New Mexico after he died and she put it there. Kate found out about it through the person who writes to her.daviscblsRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:42 PM reply 198 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 11:35 AMI've learned not to trust anything we are not actually shown.I agree but I don't think Ada would mislead us. Maybe if she pops in later she can put us straight on this one.pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:47 PM reply 118 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMThat would be helpful. I've missed Ada today. The threads are fast and furious, I havn't got a stitch of housework done. There are afew places that could use some purple wisdom.godWhackerRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 02:49 PM reply 547 Posts Registered: Apr 30, 2005 11:13 PMRe: A, question Posted: May 12, 2005 08:28 AM reply 2013 Posts Registered: Oct 17, 2004 03:14 PM Hey Lost,If you want something to work on, this FB is also out of order. This is the oldest FB that you have had on Kate. The liscense plate will give you a date. How did the plane end up in vault box in another state?Have fun!It's way back there now... so I pasted the question for you. Thread is A task from A.pau_hanaRe:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 5 Posted: May 13, 2005 03:58 PM reply 118 Posts Registered: Mar 28, 2005 08:21 PMProof!!! O.K. Cheezee just posted screen shots of the envelope in the safety deposit box. One can make out the bulges of the airplane. My doubts have been thusly removed! On with the figuring out of the trip of the plane!!!
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