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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:03:47)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 08:40 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Hey daviscbls! Thanks for agreeing with me, I feel much better! Not so alone with my wonky-feeling brain fog.
Do you think, as I do, that them having seen or experienced it before coming to the island ties into what makes them "special"? Ada said they were all special, didn't she?
And the more I think about Journey, I can't shake that little bit of time post-cockpit, where Jack just seems to be missing (with IT) for a while. Kate and Charlie hook back up, the rain clears, the sun comes out, and JUST as they're noticing the pilot in the tree Jack steps into the frame NOT acting glad to have survived or happy to see them! He just confirms that it's the pilot in the tree!
WHAAAAA?
Their reactions are not conducive to the fear we THINK they should be experiencing. Again, the pilot was not of the same mind as the Losties.
Something happened to Jack during that time after he supposedly helped Charlie to his feet, or he knows more than he's letting on.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 08:59 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Do you think, as I do, that them having seen or experienced it before coming to the island ties into what makes them "special"? Ada said they were all special, didn't she?
Yes, I'm not sure how as yet though. They just weren't frightened enough when they first experienced it on the beach. Jack and Kate even move forward for a closer look. As if they thought they knew what it was but couldn't be sure. Rose even said that it sounded familiar. And it did seem strange how they were separated when it was chasing them from the cockpit. If Locke is keeping it from them that he has seen the ?monster' then maybe Jack is also.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 08:59 AM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
chen, thank you! and you're welcome! i've enjoyed seeing your posts and your thoughts over the last couple of weeks.
this is SO off topic...but i just have to post it because it is WEIRD...today, May 2...we are having a snow storm here! those of you up north might say, 'so what?' but...I live in TEXAS. what is up with that?????
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:09 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
chelle, I posted this a few days ago. As we seem to be of a similar belief I thought I'd post it again for you.
Why would the survivors not be scared of the monster?
1) They know what it is. I've said this before. If you re-watch the scene where Jack and Kate are in the cockpit and the monster is outside. She is scared but in a strange way, as if she knows what is outside.
2) I don't have the first epi on tape so I can't re-watch it but from anni's description of it swinging from side to side, maybe it's like a pendulum and it hypnotizes them in some way.
3) Whatever connects them in the past, subconsciously they have seen/experienced the monster before.
4) Charlie is English and his use of the word ?Terrific' is typical of a situation where something happens that you are familiar with. E.g. you have a very special day planned and it starts to rain. "Terrific." You're disappointed but not scared.
Even though they don't know what the monster is, I think in their subconscious, they do.
Why kill the pilot?
anni, because he saw the whole island from an aerial vantage?
because he crashed them there?
because he tried to get out some last minute distress call?
because he would have knowledge of how to get them off, if they could repair the plane? (loooong shot)
because he might KNOW where they are?
Also, he wasn't supposed to be there so hasn't experienced the monster before so he's not ?immune' to it. Locke on the other hand, is.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:04:23)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:16 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Chen:In general, I'm thinking that the "creature" noises that accompany the monster (animal/bird sounds) could be the island's wildlife fleeing the path of the oncoming monster...
I agree
So maybe he is aware of the EMF, and aware that the EMF gave him his miracle, and so an EM disturbance would be beautiful and god-like to him...
He is aware of it because he asked Boone if he could feel IT, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Locke knows what IT is. He didn't seem to notice when IT was turned off, but I don't think he was thinking completely rationally at that time.
Locke looked up to see the monster, so I'm not so sure that it's underground. At least not all of it.
How is it a tangible thing, as Ada said, without leaving a trail of knocked down trees? Is this trail really not there, or are we just not seeing it because the losties are afraid to go into the parts of the jungle where the monster has appeared?
Does the monster always appear in the same place or does it move around the island?
Mme in Brax' Rational thread:Brax, the rational explanation is simple. The composition of the island is important to the rational solution. Once you get that, ask yourself who has the money, the power, and the means to adapt such a natural resource into a functioning creation.
When mme spoke of the composition of the island, do you think she was referring to a natural network of caverns and tunnels? This would make is easy for the government to construct a military base completely underground.
If another monsoon is coming, and the Break Phase is 40 days, they've been on the island for about 40 days. Could a monsoon have contributed to the plane crashing?
I Love, I've observed before that 'Island Locke' owes much of who he is to Cooper. The confident hunter is a completely different person to 'Walmart Locke' and this began during his time with Cooper.
This goes along with the historical reference to the philosopher and his mentor. Many of Locke's ideas were formed while he was under the patronage of Sir Anthony Cooper.
ME, about the throwing of the knife. When this is done in sports, is it normal, or even possible, for the person to thrown the knife VERY badly the first time, then, using the mind's eye technique, to throw it PERFECTLY the second time?
chelle:Do you think, as I do, that them having seen or experienced it before coming to the island ties into what makes them "special"? Ada said they were all special, didn't she?
Everything seems to be pointing at 'Special' being psychic ability, and I think this is where the recognition of the monster comes from. Maybe because they haven't actually seen it, they are imagining it to be the worst thing they have witnessed in the past. Since he obviously didn't think much about his own mortality, the Shannon-disfiguring beast was the worst thing Boone could imagine, so in his hallucination that's the form it took. Perhaps the others are projecting something similar from their pasts or imaginations onto it.
There was something odd about Jack's return from his encounter with the monster, but he did warn Kate to be careful the next time she went into the jungle. Had he seen it in the same light as Locke, I think he'd have given her more specific advice, like, "It's not a monster and if you look at it in awe, it won't kill you." If he didn't see it as Locke did, why is he still alive?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:26 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Thanks for posting that info for me, Davis. I appreciate it!
As to the pilot, I'm thinking he wasn't supposed to live. Like I said before, he's not part of the club.
The swinging back and forth is a puzzler. What can cause such wide scale destruction on one hand (cut a large swath of vegetation out in a single bound), but have the ability to cherry pick a pilot out of a window?
And if something was THAT terrifying, would you be cowering/taking cover, or clearing a window of condensation to get a better look? I guess you're not worried IT will see you? Jack and Kate sure seemed cagey when it came to giving the pilot ample warning.
I can't stop thinking of the "monster" having two parts. Mother/baby, engine/caboose, head/tail, alpha/omega...brains leaking out my ears.
chelle
P.S. Thanks for making me feel welcome! I didn't think I had much to contribute.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:04:49)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:35 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Cac --- Like you, I am mystified about the trees. Are they actually being uprooted? Or are they just being bent over by the monster's force when it passes through the area and then "bouncing back" when it has gone by? If they are being uprooted, are they still uprooted or are they "replanted"?
Chelle and Cac --- Ada said, Only two people have seen the monster, and that's Locke and Danielle. So Jack's odd reaction must be from something else...
I am looking (desperately!) for some kind of cause and effect explanation for the monster, so I'm still thinking about transceivers and antennas, but maybe a cause and effect explanation is not the way to go here, I don't know...
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:36 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
I don't have the epi on tape so I can't re-watch it so I'll have to rely on someone else to watch it again, unless you know every frame of it off by heart by now. We were told a while back to watch the left hand more closely. What if the monster in the scene is the right hand waving madly and the left hand is doing something that we've not even noticed? Maybe taking the hairbrushes (ok maybe not but you know what I mean).
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:47 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Chelle, I'm not sure whether we've actually welcomed you to the board, but you certainly fit in well here. We are always happy to meet new people with great ideas.
Davis, we already know some of the left hand things that were happening in those scenes:
The noise on the left was something other than the monster rolling down the hill.
Charlie was getting his heroin out of the bathroom while the monster and the Pilot distracted Jack and Kate.
There could easily be more, though. I'll try to pay more attention next time I watch The Journey.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:49 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
This is what Wikipedia has to say about antennas:
Most simply, an antenna is an electronic component designed to transmit or receive radio waves.
More specifically, an antenna is an arrangement of conductors designed to radiate (transmit) an electromagnetic field in response to an applied alternating electromotive force (EMF) and the associated alternating electric current.
Alternatively, if an antenna is placed into an electromagnetic field, that field will induce an alternating current upon the antenna, and EMF between its terminals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_%28radio%29
I'm sharing this since electromagnetism figures so highly in how antennas work.
I'm assuming that the transceiver they get from the cockpit has an antenna, also.
I'm also thinking some more about why the antennas might have prompted the appearance of the "monster" at the cockpit and when Locke, Kate, and Michael were hunting, but not in any other instance. In both of those cases, they were up high, up in the cockpit, up in a tree...
Again, I'm not sure where I'm going with this, could be a huge wild goose chase...
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:05:17)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:54 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Cac, just the fact that I wasn't ridiculed made me feel welcome! I've been lurking for so long, not feeling sure about posting. It's been a great experience and now I feel less alone in my madness.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 10:22 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
chen - I'm also thinking some more about why the antennas might have prompted the appearance of the "monster" at the cockpit and when Locke, Kate, and Michael were hunting, but not in any other instance. In both of those cases, they were up high, up in the cockpit, up in a tree...
Again, I'm not sure where I'm going with this, could be a huge wild goose chase...
ME suggested a while back that the ?monster' could be a ball of EMF or something like that. Help me out ME when you visit. So yes, the antennas could have something to do with its appearance. But what about when they were on the beach? Unless the ?monster' in the distance was attracted to the area of the jungle where the cockpit was and the transceiver.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 10:45 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Davis --- I guess I'm thinking that there was something different about the first "monster" appearance. I don't have any of these on tape, so I'm just going by transcripts and by what people are posting as they re-watch, but it sounds like the thing off to the left (the "second monster", or whatever you want to call it) is present at the first appearance but not at the others. To those of you who have watched and rewatched, does that accurate? So in my confused mind, I was thinking that maybe someone else on the island (the Others?) was using that thing on the left to create/manipulate/control the "monster" to scare the survivors. If so, that thing on the left might involve some kind of antenna???
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 10:49 AM
by: pysk_ (1747 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 10, 2005
Hi guys, great stuff. A said somewhere that the "monster" (I have a hard time thinking of it as a monster anymore) is tangible. Well, I have an abstract idea of what tangible means but I thought it might be helpful to find out exactly the definition.
tangible-Capable of being touched or grasped; perceptible by the touch; material; capable of being possessed or realized by the mind; real; actual; evident; as, tangible proofs.
So in my mind, that means it isn't an EM wave or something like that because you can't actually touch them, can you?
But, I am convinced it's not just an animal either. (No spoor for one thing, no tracks etc)
So what the heck does that leave us?
Locke says it's beautiful, Danielle says there's no such thing as monsters. I'm thinking that she is meaning as in werewolves, vampires and frankenstien. So whatever it is, it's something "ordinary"?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 11:03 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
I have thought for a while that maybe it's controlled by the others. When Scott was killed, he was crushed and Ada told us that the pilot looked flat. Maybe the 'monster', under the control of Ethan, killed Scott also.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:05:39)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 11:04 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
I agree with you Pysk, it has to be something you can see and touch. But I don't get the discrepancy between the large destructive qualities and the ability to pick something small up and fling it into a tree. There are definitely two components or parts.
What kind of machine would pick someone up, kill it by some means (crushing or squeezing while tearing some skin off) and then toss it or place it up high? As if they were pulled into some sort of device and spit out the other end?
This doesn't sound like the reason Danielle carries a gun.
By the way, it's official, my husband thinks I've "lost" it. He walked by and said, "It's just like when you played Myst all those years ago. You've gone to another place."
Yeah, I've been compelled by this story! Sucked in, just like that pilot was.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 11:07 AM
by: pysk_ (1747 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 10, 2005
My husband calls it "lost-en-it"
Are you lost-en-it again?
By the way, thank you so much for whoever posted about dragging the link to the address bar. I've been just clicking and closing the new window and WOW, what a pain in the butt.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 11:18 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Have you heard of Golf Widows? Women who feel like widows because they never see their husbands because they are always playing golf. Well my husband is becoming a Lost Widower.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 11:28 AM
by: figment_ (1298 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 09, 2005
Just some random thoughts re: appearances...
I wonder if the "monsters'" first appearance is related somehow to the electromagnetic field being 'switched back on' following the crash. Possibly, some of the sounds initially may have to do with that. The second appearance may have, as stated earlier, something to do with the transceiver being switched back on by the pilot. Third appearance occurs when Kate is trying to triangulate the signal(?). I don't think this is coincidence. Maybe the 'monsters' are remotely controlled equipment of a sort; i.e. controlled by radio and or electomagnetic waves? What do you folks think?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 11:44 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
My definition of a monster is something irrational, like the monsters we imagine hide in closets and under beds. Pysk's examples of werewolves, etc. also fit into this category. What killed Shannon WAS a monster because it was what Boone imagined the 'monster' to be.
When Alice fell down the rabbit hole, she found herself in a non-Newtonian universe, meaning that it didn't follow the laws of physics as we know them. If I remember correctly, it wasn't a completely irrational world, though. As she explored Wonderland, she realized that it had it's own laws of physics which she was able to learn and adapt to. The island is the same way, so perhaps we should say that it follows Lostonian Physics.
Danielle says it's not a monster because it's something that she knows to be scientifically possible WITHIN THE REALITY OF THE ISLAND. That doesn't mean that the monster is something that could exist in our world, just that it's something that does exist on the island.
Danielle said that They control the power, so do They also control the 'monster'? Are They the Others? The Whisperers? Their own group?
Is one group releasing the 'monster' and another 'slaying' it?
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:06:18)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 12:41 PM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
hi chelle!!! welcome!
you know... i am still thinking that some sort of power source to power up the antennae and transiever and maybe even the 'chair' or whatever contraption is down the hatch is at least,in part, our monster.
i have listened to it on tv and on my computer and the sounds are completly different. the computer is much more crisp and clear to me...and it absolutely sounds mechanical. i was listening other night when my husband said it sounded like when they lock down a prison in the movies. all of the clicking, slamming, pounding of metal. he said it was like they were locking down the island.
we listened again and there is a very clear clink, clink, clink sound like when a roller coaster is going up the first hill, a chain on a gear sound...very clear to us.
again, to me, i'm thinking that somekind of power source is starting up and shutting down, and i'm still not convinced that the concept of the 'death ray' vacuum thing isn't close. something that sucks up/blows out depending on which way it is turning. if it was strong enough suction, it could lift humans up and trees too.
also, we've said that we haven't seen any uprooted/broken trees...well, in the pilot 2 episode when jack/kate/charlie are running from it, there is very clearly seen broken trees knocked all over... you can see the roots and the fresh breaks in them...
i'm not trying to push this idea on anyone...and i don't know the exact machine i'm talking about...but some kind of machine is #1 on my guess list...at least for now.
so my big questions are...who is operating it? and what is it used for?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:03 PM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
Hi everybody.
Help!
There have been several references to the 'diary writer' on these message boards, but I can't for the life of me see anything or anyone that fills that description in any of the episodes. There was apparantly a conversation with her regarding Joanna sitting next to her on the plane !!
Can anyone throw any light on this for me please?
By the way, I am as hooked as the rest of the world!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:07 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Found --- The diary is supplemental to the show, not part of the episodes. You can find a link to it on ABC's main lost page (look for DIARY). From what I understand, it is written by someone on the LOST writing team, and it contains clues for the show...
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:18 PM
by: Adawhen (2807 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 17, 2004
WOW! I was talking with a group this morning about how the viewers of this show are amazing at tearing apart all of the different parts and getting down to the truth! Great job everyone! Not much to add except you will get some more clues in the next two hours that should help you a bit with what you are looking at here. Yes, the diary was originally a publicity stunt that didn't have anything to do with the show, but was written by a staff writer and two of his interns. That side focus has changed, and in the last few hours, you will be meeting some more people! Hope that helps!
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:06:39)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:22 PM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
Thanks everybody, I will have a look at the DIARY in a mo.
In the meantime has anyone else picked up on the link between Hurley and Locke?
Locke's Mom was in Santa Rosa Institution and Hurley visited Lenny in Santa Rosa Institution !!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:32 PM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
HAARP stands for High Frequency Active Aural Research Project, at joint effort of the Air Force and the navy at an isolated base near Gakona, Alaska.
It uses 72 foot tall antennas---360 of them---spread out over 4 acres.
HAARP zaps the upper atmosphere with a focused and steerable electromagnetic beam. It is an advanced model of an 'ionospheric heater'. (The ionosphere is the electrically-charged sphere surrounding Earth's upper atmosphere. It ranges between about 40 to 600 miles above Earth's surface.)
Put simply, the apparatus for HAARP is a reversal of a radio telescope: antennas send out signals instead of receiving. HAARP is the test run for a super-powerful radio wave beaming technology that lifts areas of the ionosphere by focusing a beam and heating those areas. Electromagnetic waves then bounce back onto Earth and penetrate everything-living and dead.
This huge difference could lift and change the ionosphere in the ways necessary to create futuristic effects described in the patent. According to the patent, the work of Nikola Tesla in the early 1900s formed the basis of the research.
What would this technology be worth to ARCO, the owner of the patents? They could make enormous profits by beaming electrical power, without wires, from a powerhouse in the gas fields to the consumer.
Related research by Begich and Manning uncovered bizarre schemes. For example, US Air Force documents revealed that a system had been developed for manipulating and disrupting human mental processes through pulsed radio-frequency radiation (the stuff of HAARP) over large geographical areas. The most telling material about this technology came from writings of Zbigniew Brzezinski (former National Security Adviser to US President Carter) and J. F. MacDonald (science adviser to US President Johnson and a Professor of Geophysics at UCLA), as they wrote about use of power-beaming transmitters for geophysical and environmental warfare.
The documents showed how these effects might be caused, and the negative effects on human health and thinking. The mental-disruption possibilities for HAARP are the most disturbing. More than 40 pages of the book, with dozens of footnotes, chronicle the work of Harvard professors, military planners and scientists as they plan and test this use of the electromagnetic technology.
http://www.crystalinks.com/haarp.html
Dr. Bernard Eastlund, while working as a consultant for Advanced Power Technologies Inc. (APTI) in the 1980s, patented devices that are described as capable of "causing...total disruption of communications over a very large portion of the Earth...missile or aircraft destruction, deflection or confusion...weather modification..." (3) These patents were based on the ideas and fundamental research of Nicola Tesla (many of his ideas were stolen by US corporations). Some of Eastlund's patents were temporarily sealed under a US Secrecy Order. APTI and Eastlund's patents were quickly purchased by E-Systems, a company that is home to many retired and currently employed CIA agents. In 1993 E-Systems received $1.8 billion in classified contracts. Raytheon, the fourth largest US defense contractor and third largest aerospace company, currently holds the patents. (4)
it is significant to know that since the early 1990s the US Air Force has been sponsoring the world's largest ionospheric modification project called HAARP (High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program). HAARP, located in the remote bush country of Gakona, Alaska, is a small version of the antenna discussed in the Eastlund patents. APTI initially won the contract to build HAARP
HAARP is currently a part of the ongoing Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), popularly known as "Star Wars".
A 1990 internal document obtained by Popular Science describes applications of the HAARP project as "Creating a "full global shield" that would destroy ballistic missiles by overheating their electronic guiding systems as they fly" and for "manipulating local weather."
HAARP has the potential to jam global communication systems, change weather patterns over large areas, interfere with wildlife migration patterns and negatively affect human health. It is also capable of potentially triggering targeted floods, droughts, hurricanes and earthquakes.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:34 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Ada --- Thanks for checking in on us, it's nice to know we are making progress. Now I just have to go back and read the last few pages and try to figure out what that progress is!
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:07:29)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:44 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Thanks Ada, it's nice to know we're back on track.
If you have a moment, I have a question that is tangential to Lost. What are the distinctions between Science, Pseudo Science, Science Fiction and Fantasy?
I define Science as the things in our world that are real, fit patterns and laws can be written about them. Pseudo Science is the things that are real but cannot be explained by science, like psychic phenomena. I don't even know if these two are right, but I'm less clear about the last two. Is Science Fiction what will be scientifically possible in the future, based on realistic projections of future discoveries and technology? Is Fantasy what is impossible at any time in the past, present or future? The last two blur together in my mind, probably because so many sci-fi movies include elements of both. I really didn't think about a distinction between them until you said something the other day about it. Since then, I've been thinking that this might help us distinguish which parts of Montauk to look at.
Found, Hurley was also a patient at that hospital AND he owned Locke's box company.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 01:51 PM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
Yes Cac, got that connection too but do we know that Hurley was actually a patient and that he actually does own the same box company that Locke worked for or are we just assuming from the clues given.
There does seem to be a very strong connection between the two and Hurley seems very instrumental in the whole business because of the number link as does Locke because of the Hatch - more so than any of the other characters who just seem to be a part of the plot rather than the plot itself !!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 02:06 PM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
my previous post about HAARP was purely informational...none of my own commentary or reasoning.
this is a REAL place, run by the USAF and REAL ligitimate government personell and credible, physists etc. have all speculated in REAL ligit mags and publications that there is a fear or concern as to what is actually being one with this technology.
as i put in bold, the technology goes back to Tesla...again. and it is based off of his 'death ray' ideas.
the company that i highlighted that is made up of CIA people is very interesting, huh? what did A ask us? who would have the financial resources to fund this kind of thing? well, a very influential privately held company that get's government contracts...hmmmmm?
the info go on and on...and some swear that the Russians used this (from Tesla's papers that they claim to have obtained after his death) against the US embassy in 1976. there are even reports of how exactly they did it, etc.
there is also info on how these were used to create storms along the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, and the subsequent flooding that occured. very interesting, especially if this IS the technology that is on our island and IF it has been being perfected all these years...ok, maybe not perfected...but advanced? thoughts?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 02:14 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Found, a reliable source told us that Hurley was a patient. I guess we are assuming it's the same box company, but I think these are the sort of coincidences we are supposed to find connections from.
I disagree with you about Locke and Hurley being more instrumental than everyone else. A stronger connection exists between Jack and Sawyer because they were both directly influenced by Jack's dad. Hurley was the one to use the numbers, but maybe Lennie was the one who actually opened the box by reciting them. Locke is the one trying to get into the hatch, but I think it could have been any one of them. They are all connected to it (also from a reliable source).
Lennie recites the numbers the same way Boone says, "Theresa falls up the stairs, Theresa falls down the stairs."
Anni:there is also info on how these were used to create storms along the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, and the subsequent flooding that occured.
I posted about this a while ago, but everyone said that Locke just felt the weather changing in his injured bones.
I think the government took a natural island, with many useful features like rivers and underground caves, and turned it into a Montauk-like base. When they closed it, they either just sealed it off from the rest of the world OR they sold it to a private corporation. So far the only people we've met with enough money to own such a corporation are Cooper and Mr. Paik. I'm not convinced that the government would risk such technology getting into private hands, however.
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Posted: May 02 @ 02:36 PM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
Point taken Cac - I had forgotten about the strong Sawyer/Jack link too. Love it when someone else's knowledge and opinions make me change my theories yet again.
Would I be right in thinking then that each one of the survivors are being used in some way as a means to an end. We have to assume that their presence there is no accident (although it is a result of one!)and each one was chosen for one reason or another.
Maybe the hatch is some entrance to a great underground control room with linking tunnels that runs the Island and its 'inmates'. The 'monster' must be a part of this control system. But non of this explains the WHY - I haven't got to that one yet!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 02:40 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Hi guys! Got home from work and have been catching up on today's posts. Haven't finished reading the past two pages yet, but wanted to jump in and post the responses to what I've read so far:
I_Love:I have not re-watched this particular episode so if I am wrong, be gentle, but when Locke was first reunited with Cooper and they went hunting together, Locke did not seem to have the same skills that he possesses now.
Well, we didn't really see him much with Cooper. He was a good shot, but we don't know what skills he had prior to Cooper. We didn't actually ever seem him pre-Cooper, except in Wal-Mart, and that's not a setting that allows you to demonstrate your tracking and hunting skills. He may have learned many of those things long before meeting Cooper, but never had an opportunity to use them. He was also rather submissive with his father, except for the very end when he was upset and yelling in his car.
Basically, I don't believe that most of who Locke is came from that short time with Cooper. I think much of who he is... his fears, his strengths, his philosophy, were established from childhood, throughout his life.... Not just in that limited time with Cooper. Was he an influence? Yes. But I don't believe the man and person Locke is can primarily be attributed to his short time with Cooper.
Cac: I have not re-watched this particular episode so if I am wrong, be gentle, but when Locke was first reunited with Cooper and they went hunting together, Locke did not seem to have the same skills that he possesses now.
I don't have the statistics on it, cac. But I'm guessing... yes. I'm not saying that Walt has nothing special about him - because we know they all do. It might be that the very thing that makes him special makes him even more receptive to visualization techniques like that - and would enable him to have quicker success.
Chen: I'm also thinking some more about why the antennas might have prompted the appearance of the "monster" at the cockpit and when Locke, Kate, and Michael were hunting, but not in any other instance. In both of those cases, they were up high, up in the cockpit, up in a tree...
Chen, this all sounds like it might be something significant to me!
Chelle: Cac, just the fact that I wasn't ridiculed made me feel welcome! I've been lurking for so long, not feeling sure about posting. It's been a great experience and now I feel less alone in my madness.
Chelle, welcome! I'm glad you're experience here has been enjoyable so far. We don't always agree with each other here - but if that ever happens to you, I hope you'll never perceive it as "ridicule", because that is never the intention. Glad you're here, and sharing your ideas! : )
Davis:ME suggested a while back that the ?monster' could be a ball of EMF or something like that. Help me out ME when you visit. So yes, the antennas could have something to do with its appearance. But what about when they were on the beach? Unless the ?monster' in the distance was attracted to the area of the jungle where the cockpit was and the transceiver.
Well, I like where chen is going with the thoughts about the antenneas being present. I'm not sure about the beach though - the monster(s) were in the forest though - not the beach. Maybe that means that whatever was over to the left involved an antennae of some sort.
chelle: What kind of machine would pick someone up, kill it by some means (crushing or squeezing while tearing some skin off) and then toss it or place it up high? As if they were pulled into some sort of device and spit out the other end?
As I've mentioned before, it might be something in the form of something like a tornado-like funnel.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 02:42 PM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Hi, Anni! Thanks for the welcome!
Hey, I'm with you that it has to be a machine of some sort. My only regret about that idea is that it rules out my mother/with baby following idea (which I'm fond of!). I agree with the notion that it's triggered by attempts at radio communication.
Something else about the scene where the losties on the beach turn from right to left, or the other way, I can't remember. I was thinking today that it looked like they were being directed, (not the actors, the characters). Not just following the sound, but turning their heads as if being ordered (compelled)to. Okay, this all came to me after eating a burrito, so it's easily discounted.
I think they all know something we don't (something that has happened that we haven't been made aware of yet. A scene to be aired later), but there are also things about themSelves that they're not yet aware of. Which is which?
I feel we're THISCLOSE to something! I'm so frustrated. Now I can't shake this idea that there's something we're missing about the overall picture. It came to me when I listened to the way they talked about the "rescue party". I kept getting the feeling they were talking about a group FROM the island that would be helping them. Part of a script almost. And when the pilot said "they're looking for us in the wrong place", I felt like it was pre-ordained. More seems to have been planned than we realize. You know, like, "this is a drill" or something. Everything they've said can mean something totally different when you change the perspective from which you view it.
chelle (who's head is sure to explode at any minute)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 03:23 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
anni: the company that i highlighted that is made up of CIA people is very interesting, huh? what did A ask us? who would have the financial resources to fund this kind of thing? well, a very influential privately held company that get's government contracts...hmmmmm?
wow - this is great, anni! wonderful find! sounds like a great possibility to me!
cac, i don't for the life of me remember you posting this in the past (you may have - it just does not sound familiar to me at all - though some of it does remind me of the wireless power info I posted a month or so ago.. not all of it, but just the wireless power part), so I'm very glad anni posted what she found. Sound very relevant to the current discussion.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:09:12)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 03:29 PM
by: figment_ (1298 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 09, 2005
Cac stated earlier: Thanks Ada, it's nice to know we're back on track.
If you have a moment, I have a question that is tangential to Lost. What are the distinctions between Science, Pseudo Science, Science Fiction and Fantasy?
I am looking forward to an Ada's response to this as well.
Science is based on empirical evidence--scientific theories are conclusions that are based on measurable facts or data. Empirical evidence gets a bit fuzzy when we start exploring theoretical science and new technology, i.e. quantum physics and the Unified Field Theory.
What about time-travel? Einstein, Tesla, Hawkings and many other great minds have postulated that it is
indeed possible...so where does that leave us?
Weather prediction, psychic abilities and the properties and effects of magnetite are now just recently wending their way into mainstream science...In the not so distant past magnetite was discovered to be present in the human brain and at locations throughout the rest of the body. Magnetite has been found to be responsible for "the homing instinct" or migrational patterns of birds, sea-turtles, and honeybees, as well as the ability of sharks to detect and respond to electromagnetic waves...In humans as well as other animals, it functions as a natural compass, and is postulated to perhaps have a role in "the sixth sense" or psychic abilities, weather sensitivity (the ability to predict weather), and numerous other functions that we are only beginning to explore.
Remote viewing and mind control has been implemented or experimented with by certain organizations in the government and military, namely the CIA and NSA. The Silva Mind Control Program did exist and
continues to exist to this day as the Silva Ultramind Program.
Many aspects of the Montauk Project, it's offshoots, and the Philadelphia Experiment lie well within the realm of possibility. Whether or not these events actually occurred, it think these elements present an exquisitely detailed, intricate work of art and ultimately fascinating experiment in complexity, believe it or not!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 03:37 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Mme in Brax' Rational thread: Brax, the rational explanation is simple. The composition of the island is important to the rational solution. Once you get that, ask yourself who has the money, the power, and the means to adapt such a natural resource into a functioning creation.
cac: When mme spoke of the composition of the island, do you think she was referring to a natural network of caverns and tunnels? This would make is easy for the government to construct a military base completely underground.
Yes, I think that's what she's thinking, cac... the natural composition of the island... natural networks of caverns and tunnels... and what it consists of.... which was then adapted, modified, contructed into a top secret military research facility.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:09:34)
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Posted: May 02 @ 03:48 PM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
so, i'm a dummy. this show is so involved that sometimes the simple or the obvious is sooooo NOT!
so, i'm sure some of you already go this, but i have been confused about something that was just clarified by ME for me.
i am really concerned with the science/psuedo-science/sci-fi thing (like you too cac!) i've been trying to keep all of my ideas in the 1st two catagories and i feel that the stuff that kept leaning to the time travel and portals and stuff was just a little too far into the sci-fi realm. i am just to going to leave it alone for a while until (as Ada just told us) we see some good info in the next couple of hours that will hopefully pan this out for us!
now, onto my 'duh' moment. i've always wondered about walt and the polar bears. it's been tossed back and forth about whether walt 'conjured' them up or whether they were just there and showed up. it just dawned on me in a converstion with ME that Danielle told Sayid about the 'bears'...she KNEW about them. so obviously they have been there all along...or for all of her time.
so, walt DID NOT 'conjure' them up..as in didn't physically create them from his mind...
they were there all along.
so, what was the deal with the comic book? why did they show us that? well, if i remember correctly, it also showed us an island with a dome over it (EMF???) and didn't it also show us a human figure connected to a chair or table with wires and such coming from him? as in an experiment lab?
maybe the comic book was only a clue as to the identity of the island...what it really is.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 04:10 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Found:Love it when someone else's knowledge and opinions make me change my theories yet again.
I hope you don't change your opinions simply because someone disagrees with you. I'm sure I speak for the others too when I say that I'm wrong at least as often as I'm right with my theories.
Would I be right in thinking then that each one of the survivors are being used in some way as a means to an end.
I've been pretty strongly against it all being a plan, but even I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't so accidental as I've been thinking. Learning that Locke was a designer baby is the main thing that makes me wonder.
I do think there is some sort of underground control room. A whole complex, actually. The hatch is an important part, but I'm not sure it's just an entrance or the only entrance.
Anni and ME, I'd read all that before, but the only part I think I posted was about the weather.
Actually, my science question was more out of curiosity than to decide what to use. I don't need a line to be drawn that I won't look beyond. As I said earlier, I'm open to anything that fits within the reality that is Lost.
Anni, just because Walt didn't conjure the polar bears doesn't mean they've been there a long time. Brax suggested the same thing in his thread and this was my reply:
Polar bears do not survive that long on a tropical island. Zoologists are concerned about their survival in the arctic because global warming is reducing their habitat. Their fur is designed to channel heat toward their body. This is why they have special air conditioned habitats at the zoo. To get their food, they walk out onto the ice and dive under it to catch seals. In the summer, they migrate further North because they don't simply start going into the water from the beach. I don't know why they can't do that; they just don't. This means that the bears haven't been there any longer than their latest meal. So far as I know, polar beard don't hibernate, so that means it hasn't been years or months; it's been days or weeks since they arrived.
Good point about the comic book polar bear being the right hand.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:10:04)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 02 @ 04:11 PM
by: figment_ (1298 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 09, 2005
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 04:30 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
chen: I'm on board with the caves idea here, but I think I would also include the (possibly magnetic) Black Rock.
absolutley! when i said underground caverns and things, i didn't mean that's all that was there... but the primary composition of the island. But i definitely think that the Black Rock was already a structure on the island from the start.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 04:38 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
cac: Actually, my science question was more out of curiosity than to decide what to use. I don't need a line to be drawn that I won't look beyond. As I said earlier, I'm open to anything that fits within the reality that is Lost.
I'm with you on that, cac!
cac: Anni, just because Walt didn't conjure the polar bears doesn't mean they've been there a long time.
I think anni's point was simply that Danielle was clearly familiar with the bears, so they must have been there prior to the plane crash. Danielle didn't sound like they were a new phenomenom on the island... she didn't say, "And NOW we have POLAR BEARS here - if you can believe THAT!" I'm not saying they were there for years, but neither was anni.
Maybe the question we could also be asking ourselves is, where on the island are the bears being kept all this time? Where is the climate controled habitat that was been created for them - with all the money we've been hearing about from A (her question about who has enough money to do all this)? I'm glad everyone is keeping an open mind, so that this might be possible too!
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:10:28)
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Posted: May 02 @ 06:49 PM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
lol, chelle!
maybe we're getting too caught up in the lines between the science/psuedo-science/sci-fi/fantasy thing.
if you think of theories and experiments and such, i'd say that takes you all the way through sci-fi...at least theory does.
we know the island isn't NORMAL for goodness sake! i for one am really anxious for the season to end, not because of a 4 month break...ugh, actually. but because there is going to be so much more to discover and talk about and i believe we will have a much better indicator of what direction the writers are going to take.
cac, i get the feeling that you thought the HAARP stuff wasn't of any consequence... other than weather changes. my whole point in pointing it out was that they used TESLA's discoveries and patented them...there is the connection. also it is all about the use of EM waves and discusses how they can be aimed, and focused on a specific point. i think that all of that fell into the previous discussion of what was described as a possible 'laser beam' or something.
anyway, didn't mean to bore anyone, but we just keep seeing similarities and connections...
any ideas come up about the 'monster' scenes from pilot #1? Ada kept telling us the LEFT and the RIGHT...she kept making reference to the left. so? two separate things? also, again, on the sounds we heard...when my husband said 'sounds like a lockdown', i couldn't get it out of my mind. what if it was? or the reverse...what if they were opening up cages, not closing them? what if the polar bears are contained in a 'jurassic park' like setting...or a zoo...and they were let out? could a containment unit that was cooled to arctic temps cause a rush of air when opened? (the wind)
but that doesn't explain why they didn't see a stampede of animals comming at them...and doesn't explain somthing that could snatch up a pilot either....
maybe it is two different things. maybe one is triggered by the other? any thoughts?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 02 @ 09:40 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Anni, I did think there was a lot of the HAARP stuff that sounded good. I think you did a great job bolding what was important and didn't really feel the need to repeat it.
I also thought it sounded like it could be some sort of door opening or closing. The monster seemed to be moving from the right to the left and, if it was a door, it was closed before the monter reached it. Then the monster stopped. I doubt that a stampede of animals would run in a straight line, either.
One triggering the other is quite likely, though.
I found another interesting tidbit on Montauk:
Late 1984 - Removal of most Montauk Project equipment. Cement used to seal off underground areas of the base. Montauk AFB abandoned.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 01:02 AM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
As there are no visible means of opening the hatch from our side, is it possible that it is an exit only and not an entrance (therefore opening mechanisms are on the inside? Or is it opened remotely? Or is it not meant to be opened at all (being only an observation tower or light source for something below)?
The whisperings that say 'have they seen us' seem to imply that they are being observed in some way.
Are the noises heard during Locke's dream sequence relevant? (breaking glass, door squeaking open?)
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:11:03)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 03 @ 05:35 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 09:46 AM
by: SmidgeInNH (1168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 29, 2005
I've been thinking about magnets. Remember when we were kids in science class, we'd put a magnet under the table, then something metal on top and "move" the object across the table using the magnet?
Could that be happening here? Some kind of propulsion system underground running through tunnels, with a magnet aimed at the ground above it, and something on top of the ground moving on the strength of the magnet?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 11:29 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Hi all! I'm kind of feeling like we've gotten to where we were supposed to get at this point with the "monster" (based on Ada's comments yesterday afternoon), so I'm looking for a new topic to try to apply my mind to at the moment. And of course, I want some of you to come along with me... this is much easier when you have someone to think with...
Here are some choices I like:
1. Loose ends in the Beechcraft thread... there are some questions that Ada continued to repeat... there is also the monsoon/corialis/kelvin/break stuff...
2. If Danielle's team is studying time, why were they in a boat in the South Pacific?
3. What would putting Locke's and/or Jack's flashbacks in chronological order reveal?
OR What do you want to get into???
OR Maybe if we're really lucky, we'll get some more questions/guidance soon...
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 01:34 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
anni: maybe we're getting too caught up in the lines between the science/psuedo-science/sci-fi/fantasy thing.
if you think of theories and experiments and such, i'd say that takes you all the way through sci-fi...at least theory does.
we know the island isn't NORMAL for goodness sake!
I agree that the island isn't "normal"... we're not talking "normal" sceince here, for the most part. We haven't been dealing with "normal" since since day one, all in all. But I do think there is are some pretty distinct lines between science and science fiction, and pseudo science and fantasy, etc... and I do think that knowing the distinction could help shape where people go with their theories. There are so many possibilities, that if people are unclear of the distinction, it could really cast too broad a net, and send some folks way out into left field, instead of looking at what's going on in right field.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:11:35)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 03 @ 01:37 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Excellent idea, Chen. Thank you. I'll start by reposting all the questions. Which one's haven't been answered yet?
1. Loose ends in the Beechcraft thread... there are some questions that Ada continued to repeat... there is also the monsoon/corialis/kelvin/break stuff...
Topic:
Where did that plane come from, Locke's Mommy?
Questions:
1-What was Locke's Mommy pointing at?
2-Why did the hatch tell Locke to find the Beechcraft?
3-Why was the pilot in a tree?
4-Why did he have a gun in the tree?
5-Who else was in the plane?
6-How did the one in the plane die? It wasn't from the crash.
7-Why didn't Danielle find the Beechcraft and help whoever was in it? Locke said it had only crached 2-10 years before.
8-How far into the island was the Beechcraft?
9-Why haven't the others?
10-Why did it crash?
2. If Danielle's team is studying time, why were they in a boat in the South Pacific?
3. What would putting Locke's and/or Jack's flashbacks in chronological order reveal?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 01:56 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
And now for my version of the answers:
1. Loose ends in the Beechcraft thread... there are some questions that Ada continued to repeat...
Topic:
Where did that plane come from, Locke's Mommy?
Nigeria
Questions:
1-What was Locke's Mommy pointing at?
If you look at the position of the plane on cliff and the position of the plane in the dream, the shots are composed the same way. The jungle is where the cliff is.
Emily is pointing toward the cliff, which is the Black Rock.
2-Why did the hatch tell Locke to find the Beechcraft?
So that he would find the Black Rock, but he thinks it's so that he and Jack can make a heroin hatch opener.
3-Why was the pilot in a tree?
He's hiding from something or someone, trying to get the strategic advantage of being higher and hidden. Why didn't he fall out of the tree when he died?
4-Why did he have a gun in the tree?
He has the gun to defend himself against whomever it is that Danielle is afraid of. My guess is Brendon and the Others.
5-Who else was in the plane?
Ethan and his brother Ethan.
6-How did the one in the plane die? It wasn't from the crash.
The pilot shot him because he was a bad navigator?
He saw the monster kill the pilot and decided a heroin overdose would be preferable?
He contracted the illness because his plane is stuck on the Black Rock?
He may have been dead before the plane crashed.
7-Why didn't Danielle find the Beechcraft and help whoever was in it? Locke said it had only crashed 2-10 years before.
Danielle won't go to the plane because it's near the Black Rock. Her team caught the Illness near the BR.
8-How far into the island was the Beechcraft?
An hours walk. This is far enough that Locke couldn't have carried Boone unless he'd regained the use of his legs. The radio broadcast must have signaled to someone that the EMF was turned off and so they turned it back on.
9-Why haven't the others?
There weren't any children on it, but how do we know the Others didn't go there to recruit the Ethans?
10-Why did it crash?
It flew into a portal in Nigeria and was transported to the island. It circled the island for a while and didn't find an airport because there isn't one. The pilot didn't chose to land there, so either he was already dead or the Black Rock pulled it into place.
Did 815 break apart because it was strong enough to attempt to fight the pull of the Island and was torn apart in the struggle whereas the small plane was powerless to resist and was just pulled in whole?
... there is also the monsoon/corialis/kelvin/break stuff...
I've read all the research everyone has done, plus a little of my own, and I'm not satisfied that we've found what we're supposed to here.
2. If Danielle's team is studying time, why were they in a boat in the South Pacific?
Could they have heard rumours of a freaky magical island and were actually looking for it? I read something about a time anomaly when crossing the equator (sorry, don't remember where). Could that be it? And why were they so heavily armed?
3. What would putting Locke's and/or Jack's flashbacks in chronological order reveal?
It would reveal connections between them. Locke and Sarah in the same accident? Christian operating on Locke? There must be more. Do you think my list was in the right order? Should we make another list putting JUST the flashbacks in order? There may be left-hand things they have in common.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 02:18 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Cac! Ambitious! I was thinking we could chose one to take off on, but you tackled all three!
About the Beechcraft thread... I like the idea that Emily was pointing to the Black Rock/cliff, but I'm not fully persuaded yet... Shouldn't we recognize the Black Rock when we see it? I didn't think the cliff was the Black Rock when I watched DEM... Maybe Ada's goal with that question was just that she was pointing at something more important and we just have not yet figured out what that is, or we just don't have the clues yet to figure out what that is...
Some other questions she posed toward the end of her time in that thread: why does Danielle never leave home without a gun? why did the second guy stay in the plane? how did the priest in the tree get out of the plane without knocking it off the cliff?
The first two questions put together make me wonder if the priest and the guy in the plane were setting up an ambush or defensive position against someone coming to steal their stash
I have no ideas right now for the third part unless the cliff is the Black Rock (which it might be)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 02:43 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Some more thoughts... There's just too much there to answer in one post...
My guess is that in the Beechcraft thread, Ada continued to pose questions to which she had not seen an answer that would point us in the right direction...
I agree that there is still work to do on the weather clues... and there have been some comments (not here, in that thread) that seemed unsupported (to me) by research but then were taken as fact...
I think someone on Danielle's time research team (if not all of them) was seeking the island. Either looking for an anomaly in time, like you said, Cac, or looking for a place they had heard of that would have the resources to conduct the kind of experiments they wanted to conduct (an abandoned government research facility?). Maybe they found more than they bargained for, at least at first. Maybe they proceeded with some of those experiments...
About the other version of the summary/special... Were they going to show new footage from flashbacks? Or just repeat what we had already seen in chronological order? Ada made it sound like viewing it in order would be a big reveal. So it has to be from something on film, either stuff we've seen or previously cut footage they were going to add for the special. Also, do you think they were going to merge the flashbacks from multiple characters, or just show each character's flashbacks separately, but in order?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 02:46 PM
by: pysk_ (1747 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 10, 2005
If Danielle's team is studying time, why were they in a boat in the South Pacific?
Does anyone remember Ada having us look up things about the International Date Line, and how you lose a day? The International Date Line is in the Pacific Ocean to the right of Australia. Our island could be right on it actually.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 03:06 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
chen: ... there is also the monsoon/corialis/kelvin/break stuff...
cac: I've read all the research everyone has done, plus a little of my own, and I'm not satisfied that we've found what we're supposed to here.
I think one big reason Ada wanted us to look up the monsoon/corialis/kelvin/break stuff is that we can learn about what to expect, and start developing an idea what the Losties are in for, and how it may change things on the island... and how it might impact the raft.
There do seem to be several different weather effects that are unique to the equator, even among these effects that occur in other locations.
chen: I agree that there is still work to do on the weather clues... and there have been some comments (not here, in that thread) that seemed unsupported (to me) by research but then were taken as fact...
Chen, are you talking about the info re: Kelvin waves occurring every 40 days? If so, I agree that this seems unsupported. It was stated once in a post without any supported web link, but nothing I've found on the web about Kelvin waves has said they occur every 40 days. However, after the one post, many people ran with that as if it is fact, and I'm just not sure about that. I asked the person about where this info was found and a link, but never heard back. I just don't think we can say that Kelvin waves occur every 40 days without anything to support it. I'm not sure what else you read regarding those weather conditions that you weren't satisified with yet... could you say?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 07:06 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
ME --- About the weather research, I was thinking about the 40 days thing that you mentioned... What I read made it sound like when Kelvin waves begin in the western Pacific, they come across the equator in bunches, not one every forty days. And if I remember correctly, what I read made them sound like small to moderate-sized waves of warmer water, although maybe that's when they reach South America. I guess the conclusions in the Beechcraft thread were confusing to me: a tidal wave hit the island just before the plane crashed and now 40 days later another one is coming, the break phase in the monsoon started when they crashed and now, 40 days later it is ending... That didn't fit with what I was reading but it seemed to become "fact"... Maybe I'm not reading the right stuff, I don't know, because I'm also not sure how the different pieces are supposed to fit together on this (how exactly monsoons and break phases fit with corialis effect and with kelvin waves...)
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Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 03 @ 07:22 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
chen:Maybe Ada's goal with that question was just that she was pointing at something more important and we just have not yet figured out what that is, or we just don't have the clues yet to figure out what that is...
That's quite possible, but I do think that the cliff is at least NEAR the Black Rock because of the question about Danielle not going there.
Had we not been told that the red stain on the cliff isn't a face, I'd have actually said that that is what Emily is pointing to and that it has something to do with the pre-historic history of the island.
I think someone on Danielle's time research team (if not all of them) was ... looking for a place they had heard of that would have the resources to conduct the kind of experiments they wanted to conduct
Do we know for sure that Brendon was not part of Danielle's team? I know she said she killed her team, but it seems that someone has considerable knowledge about how to revive the island experiment and I think Brendon is the only clue we've been given (or I've noticed) toward that. Now that we know that they were studying time, it seems likely that at least one of her team survived.
A said that there were some new scenes in the other special and even listed some. She said that all the FBs were Locke and Jack's and I believe they were to be shown mixed together in chronological order. Search her name and you should find her post on this.
pysk, they very well could have been there to study the IDL.
gW, I'm reluctant to believe that anything is being staged. I hope the writers have a better plan than that.
ME, the 40 day pattern of the Kelvin waves was actually the only thing I was able to connect with Lost. If the weather on the island is in some sort of 40 Day cycle, (I think that was my speculation you were reading, Chen) which nicely coincides with the length of this season, then the monsoon we are about to witness might give us some insight into the weather pattern at the time of the crash. I feel that A must have a reason for us to research monsoons that leads back to one of the mysteries, or even to a new one. Besides the 40 days, I didn't see anything that would be useful to us.
In 1971 Roland Madden and Paul Julian (1) stumbled upon a 40-50 day oscillation when analysing zonal wind anomalies in the tropical Pacific. ... which became known as the Madden and Julian Oscillation (MJO) ... The MJO affects the entire tropical troposphere but is most evident in the Indian and western Pacific Oceans. The MJO involves variations in wind, sea surface temperature (SST), cloudiness, and rainfall. ... the recurrence interval for the eastward propagating OLR anomalies in the eastern hemisphere is about 30 to 60 days. How exactly the anomaly propagates from the dateline to Africa (i.e. through the western hemisphere) is not well understood. It appears that near the dateline a weak Kelvin wave propagates eastward and poleward ...
Associated with the propagation of convective anomalies, the MJO involves variations in the global circulation. The MJO affects the intensity and break periods of the Asian and Australian monsoons and interacts with El Ni?o. Wet spells in the Australian monsoon occur about 40 days apart. Fairly weak correlations with the midlatitude rainfall patterns and jet stream characteristics have also been found.
A synoptic analysis of the evolution leading up to a wet spell was performed for a large number of cases during 1980-1992 (2). The surges are initially evident over one of three regions: the South China Sea, the northwest Pacific (near Japan) and Indochina. Five days later there is an increase of northerly surface wind over Indonesia. The onset of a wet westerly monsoon wind over the Top End of Australia then occurs another 2-5 days later, usually leading to high rainfalls there.
Spectral analysis of rainfall in Darwin also reveals a 40-day cycle, probably related to the Madden and Julian Oscillation.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:14:19)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 03 @ 07:46 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
I'm still feeling unsettled about the priest in the tree and the guy in the Beechcraft... why are they where they are and how did they die?
Cac --- a few more questions/comments about your previous posts (that was too much information for me to process all at once!):
7-Why didn't Danielle find the Beechcraft and help whoever was in it? Locke said it had only crashed 2-10 years before.
Danielle won't go to the plane because it's near the Black Rock. Her team caught the Illness near the BR.
She did go back to the Black Rock to change the transmission. Also, when she was telling Sayid about all of that, it almost felt to me like she was just realizing whatever it was she was trying to communicate to him (or maybe she was just having trouble communicating verbally!). So I'm not yet convinced her fear of the Black Rock runs that deep... I'm also not completely convinced that she's been on the island for 16 years, so maybe she wasn't there when the Beechcraft crashed. But, this question about Danielle makes me also wonder why she didn't come to help the 815 survivors (she seemed unaware of the crash when she was talking to Sayid, right?). Here's what I'm thinking (WILD speculation, and I can't believe I'm thinking this, but Cac, this is right up your alley): what if during both plane crashes, she was somewhere (in an underground facility, maybe, causing her to be unaware of the crashes) trying to find Alex by trying to open a tesseract? I do agree that she believes Alex was sent into a tesseract...
8-How far into the island was the Beechcraft?
An hours walk.
Can you clarify how we know this? I guess I missed it. Should I go read the DEM transcript or was it something you figured out another way?
And why is this important to the Beechcraft discussion?
Do you think my list was in the right order? Should we make another list putting JUST the flashbacks in order?
If just the flashbacks are what we think we would have seen on screen, then I think that's what we should be studying. I do think your list was in what is commonly accepted as the right order, I thought it was right when I studied it, but I'm not totally sure it is in the order the writers have in mind (maybe that is where the big reveal would come in). Also, if we haven't seen anything so far in the flashbacks to connect Jack and Locke, it seems like we would need footage we haven't seen before for a connection between them to be the big reveal...
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 08:02 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Cac --- I think I must have been working on my post while you were posting yours...
Actually, I don't think I was refering to your weather posts in the Beechcraft thread, at least not primarily... The info you posted on the MJO looks interesting, thanks! I'll probably take a closer look at it in the morning...
About Brendan, if he wasn't on her ship, how does she know his name? Did she meet him on the island? Then why does she say she has never seen any other people there? My speculation is that he was on her team and then that team split into two groups on the island and when she says she killed them all she is refering to killing the people in her group... Maybe Brendan's group wanted to experiment on the island and Danielle and Robert's group didn't want to... Maybe eventually Robert's group wanted to shut down Brendan's group's ability to experiment, but Danielle feared that she would lose Alex forever if that happened, so she killed them... (but that doesn't explain the sickness, I guess...) Too many maybes, too much speculation and invention, but it would make an entertaining story!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 03 @ 08:12 PM
by: godWhacker (1408 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 30, 2005
I'm not questioning anyones points in these discussions...
I just don't think we're giving the "individuals" on the island enough credit.
Take Ethan... manipulating his way into the Lostaways.
I simply (rightly or wrongly) feel some of the things being shown are too distract certain, or all of the Lostaways (and us). Manipulation is an awesome tool if you know how to do it.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:14:51)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 03 @ 09:28 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
gW, I agree that they chose Locke and Jack for a reason and I'm sure that has to do with the important roles they will be playing in the remaining episodes as well as their pasts. You could be right about it having to do with their daddy issues, but I suspect it has more to do with how their paths crossed in the past.
I simply (rightly or wrongly) feel some of the things being shown are too distract certain, or all of the Lostaways (and us). Manipulation is an awesome tool if you know how to do it.
I absolutely agree with you here, but I think that's the writers doing their job very well and the directors being careful to filter everything through a particular character's point of view. I think that they misunderstand things and we do it with them. Certainly, information is being withheld from them by Danielle and the Whispers, but I think that has to do with trust issues more than deception. Ethan and the Others are the exception to this, but that's pretty obvious.
Chen, I remember someone on the board saying it was an hour's walk to the hatch -- I think they corrected me when I said it was a short distance.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 01:32 AM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
I apologise if I am raking up old ground here, but can someone answer something for me?
When Jack first found the cave and the coffin, he (we) assumed it was his fathers, although empty. If this is so, how did it get to the cave. If it isn't Jack's daddy's what is it doing there and whose is it, or was it just another part of his hallucination.
Also there appears to be some fuselage there, implying a plane crash. Where did this come from?
An off the wall theory coming up:
We are looking at the future in the cave. The fuselage is from 815 and Adam and Eve are the only surviving members of the crash after 40 years of Island residency !! (Jack and Kate???)
I won't be able to visit you for a while as you lucky ones will be watching the new episodes. As I don't know when I will be able to see them (if ever - perish the thought)I will have to stay away for fear of major spoilers.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 05:44 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Found, the wreckage from the plane is spread across the island. There is probably more significance to the coffin being where found near the cave and water, but I'm pretty sure it's Christian's.
Adam & Eve being Jack and Kate in the future is not a new theory. I think Jack partially dated the bodies by the style of clothing, so they are definitely from the past.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 07:38 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Here's what A said about the time periods:
Don't look for a single story to fit all of the time periods and all of the history!
We made that mistake for the first three months, and then we realized that they DON'T match.
I said it before, and I'll say it again (Lily Tomlin, right?): The island has a contiguous history of only about 50 years so far, but NONE of the historical influences match.
There was Adam and Eve, but so far NO correlation to another time period. No sign that anyone, but Jack, ever thought of burying these people or of disturbing the cave. No one was searching for them.
The hatch is your second time period. Dated to the late 50's, but more likely the early 60's (that's all I can say, phwet!).
The third time period, that we are CURRENTLY aware of, is the ship of scientists with whom Danielle was traveling.
The fourth time period is our LOST band of survivors.
They have NO connection that we can find at this time, so you have to assume, when 4 out of 4 happenings appear to have no correlation but where they are, that there is NO correlation to be found but geography.
Obviously, this was before Ethan and the drug plane, so they have to be fitted in somehow. My guess is that Ethan was on the drug plane and that it arrived after Danielle but before 'our' plane.
However, she did write CURRENTLY in reference to Danielle, so maybe this plane and/or Ethan actually arrived before her. There is some question about Danielle being there 16 years, after all.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:15:21)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 07:39 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Since finding that list of the time periods, I've found it odd that Adam and Eve came before the Hatch, since we've been working with the assumption that the experiment is what has drawn everyone to the island. In the above post, I decided that there is something naturally magnetic to ships and planes on the island. The obvious thing is the Black Rock.
Quoting mme in the Rational thread again: The composition of the island is important to the rational solution. Once you get that, ask yourself who has the money, the power, and the means to adapt such a natural resource into a functioning creation.
I had been thinking that the tunnels were originally formed by underground rivers, but ME and I were discussing this today and she suggested the volcano as the source of the tunnels. As it erupted, it may have left channels under the island which are now the caves that Jack found and the underground network that was later adapted for the experiment, including the addition of the hatch. The crater at the South (on this map) end of the island looks like a volcano, but it is unusually placed to have formed the island. Perhaps there are more that were modified to create the plateaus?
Now, it seems strange that Danielle would draw all these maps without indicating the Black Rock. There's the X at the North end that seems to be a likely candidate. I think that this map was drawn using the compass, so the compass rose points to what is throwing off the compass from true north. Since this is the Black Rock, the BR must be at the North end of the island according to this map.
True North is indicated on this map (East on the first map).
http://img64.exs.cx/img64/1737/sayidsmap.jpg
IF the Beechcraft crashed on the BR, that's an awfully long way from the beach camp, which I think is on the end of the island with the crater, because I think they have shown sunsets.
Sayid speculated that the overlaid maps might locate the Black Rock. There's a cool animation of the overlaying of the maps here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/index.html
This really isn't helping me much, but two of the three views show three islands and on the first layer, they are called "Les Trois Lots" or "The Three Portions/Shares/Lots/Prizes" This is also the root of the word lottery, which might be significant and is at least interesting. Sayid also said that it points to a location on the island, so maybe they aren't actually three islands, but three places on the island. Maybe three landmarks that can be triangulated to find something else, just as they tried to triangulate the signal to find the transmitter. This could even be how Danielle's team found the transmitter themselves.
"Les Trois Lots" could be three areas of the island that are divided among three groups of people on the island. Or they could be considered "prizes" because of their importance. The hatch, the Black Rock and ???.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/maps/map1.jpg
On the same map, there is another group of three islands which are roughly the same size, shape and configuration as the three under the triangle. Perhaps they are the same objects viewed from a slightly different angle. All of these islands are partially submerged, as though there is much more beneath the surface that we aren't being shown -- rather like the island itself.
One of the islands is labeled "Rafiot," which the website translates as a "pejorative term for a ship, probably broken, not safe.." and speculates that it might be "A ship on a small island?" I think that what might not be safe about it is not the ship's seaworthiness, but rather it's precarious position balancing on top of the rock. I don't think the rafiot looks much like a ship at all, actually. It looks a bit like the flying saucer in Walt's comic or another "broken, not safe" vessel we've seen recently -- the Beechcraft plane, which also happened to be precariously balanced on top of a rock.
There are waves around it, which might lend support to the theory that the valley below the cliff was once flooded. The waves around the other two objects do look like they are a river flowing by, but the waves around the rafiot are different. Instead of flowing past it, they radiate out from it, as though it is the source of the waves. Since I'm still not comfortable with the idea that the island was flooded, I think these are electromagnetic waves emanating from the Black Rock. The Black Rock is the natural source of the electromagnetic waves on the island but these are boosted by the antenna.
The same map shows the "Courant C?te" which they have explained to mean:
courant = current, c?te = coast
coastal current would have been translated by "courant cotier" so the word "c?te" does not refer to the current (it's a question of grammar)
I think Danielle is indicating the current the drowned Joanna and the arrows might indicate being pulled down rather than a lateral direction. I don't know how this connects to the Trois Lots, but the arrows do meet up with, and go off with, the ones along the bottom that form another wave. It could be a clue that the thing in the water that the power cable goes to is the third location.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:15:48)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 09:04 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Emily is pointing toward the cliff, which is the Black Rock.
If this is true, did Locke know that he was headed to the Black Rock? Is that why he was using the compass, because he knew it would lead him there?
He has the gun to defend himself against whomever it is that Danielle is afraid of. My guess is Brendon and the Others.
But Danielle hasn't seen the others so how does she know that they are dangerous? Unless she believes that they took Alex. Could she be afraid of something else and that's what the priest was hiding from?
An hours walk.
Can you clarify how we know this? I guess I missed it. Should I go read the DEM transcript or was it something you figured out another way?
The diary writer said that she followed Locke and Boone to the hatch and it was ?way over an hour into parts of the jungle I haven't explored yet.' This could be where it came from. If so, the plane would be even further than that.
Adam & Eve being Jack and Kate in the future is not a new theory. I think Jack partially dated the bodies by the style of clothing, so they are definitely from the past.
He dated them from the decomposition of the clothes.
KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?
JACK: Long. It takes forty or fifty years for clothing to degrade like this.
Nothing to add, clearing my brain for this evening.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:16:08)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 09:10 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
For those who aren't following the same discussion on the Beechcraft thread, this is A's reply to me there:
[i]Thanks Cac!
Once a question has been asked, I can consider it for answering, but I can't tell you things! That was the agreement I made.
Lets see.
1- This really isn't helping me much, but two of the three views show three islands and on the first layer, they are called "Les Trois Lots" or "The Three Portions/Shares/Lots/Prizes" This is also the root of the word lottery, which might be significant and is at least interesting.
"Les Trois Lots" could be three areas of the island that are divided among three groups of people on the island. Or they could be considered "prizes" because of their importance. The hatch, the Black Rock and ???.
Cac, the person who put those up is using HS French class to translate. Not being mean, just honest. "Lots" in French can also mean batch and a few other things. The term is what's important here, so a literal translation won't really help. See if you can figure out what the phrase "Les Trois Lots" could be applied to.
2- One of the islands is labeled "Rafiot," which the website translates as a "pejorative term for a ship, probably broken, not safe.." and speculates that it might be "A ship on a small island?" I think that what might not be safe about it is not the ship's seaworthiness, but rather it's precarious position balancing on top of the rock. I don't think the rafiot looks much like a ship at all, actually. It looks a bit like the flying saucer in Walt's comic or another "broken, not safe" vessel we've seen recently -- the Beechcraft plane, which also happened to be precariously balanced on top of a rock.
There are waves around it, which might lend support to the theory that the valley below the cliff was once flooded. The waves around the other two objects do look like they are a river flowing by, but the waves around the rafiot are different. Instead of flowing past it, they radiate out from it, as though it is the source of the waves. Since I'm still not comfortable with the idea that the island was flooded, I think these are electromagnetic waves emanating from the Black Rock. The Black Rock is the natural source of the electromagnetic waves on the island but these are boosted by the antenna.
Cac, again, the person who posted those maps is being too literal. Une rafiot is a tub. Don't dismiss this. Think on it for awhile. What is a tub, even in a natural element, what action does it make? Think of Ulysses. And then study the "island" that the word occurs near. Does it look to you like something might be on written on that island?
3- The same map shows the "Courant C?te" which they have explained to mean:
courant = current, c?te = coast
coastal current would have been translated by "courant cotier" so the word "c?te" does not refer to the current (it's a question of grammar)
I think Danielle is indicating the current the drowned Joanna and the arrows might indicate being pulled down rather than a lateral direction. I don't know how this connects to the Trois Lots, but the arrows do meet up with, and go off with, the ones along the bottom that form another wave. It could be a clue that the thing in the water that the power cable goes to is the third location.
Cac, good catch. Are they all tied in togethere? YES, then are. Find Psyk. She did quite a lot of research on this back in February. Compare notes on the waters off the island, and Cac? Start your own maps. You're going to learn that some of what the maps are showing are different than the truth. Start your own maps.
There you go! I'll stop back later and see if you need anything else!
Thanks for finally asking. I have tried to leave as many breadcrumbs as possible, but this one seemed to slip by no matter what I said!
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:16:45)
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Posted: May 04 @ 09:29 AM
by: figment_ (1298 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 09, 2005
Ada:
Cac, again, the person who posted those maps is being too literal. Une rafiot is a tub. Don't dismiss this. Think on it for awhile. What is a tub, even in a natural element, what action does it make? Think of Ulysses. And then study the "island" that the word occurs near. Does it look to you like something might be on written on that island?
Just passing through here without much time to read or catch up, but I wanted to mention that there is an area in Pittsburgh that is known as "the bathtub" that seems to fill with water every time there is a significant amount of rainfall, especially during the widespread flooding that has occured in the past year...and it stayed full for days and days! This "bathtub" happens to be on a major highway right in the middle of the downtown area. I don't know if this relates, but I thought I would toss this bit of info in.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:54 AM
by: raymjess (4 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 04, 2005
Hi, this is my first time posting. I have been reading for quite a while and find all your thoughts very interesting.
I felt like I should respond to what was written under the three islands. I am french canadian , when I looked at the map I thought it said : Les trois ?lots meaning 3 small islands, not les trois lots.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:32 AM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
The term is what's important here, so a literal translation won't really help. See if you can figure out what the phrase "Les Trois Lots" could be applied to.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:37 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Yep, in mythology is looks like the Three Fates did just THAT! They set your destiny. One stood for The Past, the other two for The Present and The Future. Hmmmm.
I don't want to go down this road if it's a dead end. Is there "A"nyone who can let us know if this is the right direction?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:40 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Une rafiot is a tub. Don't dismiss this. Think on it for awhile. What is a tub, even in a natural element, what action does it make? Think of Ulysses. And then study the "island" that the word occurs near. Does it look to you like something might be on written on that island?
Another action associated with a tub is draining it. The Ulysses reference could be Charybdis, the whirlpool, maybe?
I can see how there could be something written on that island (apparently there is!) but I can't make out what it says...
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:17:13)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:48 AM
by: vimesfan (12 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 02, 2005
I must have totally missed something. Who is Brendon? Where would I be able to read more about him?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:48 AM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
Une rafiot is a tub. Don't dismiss this. Think on it for awhile. What is a tub, even in a natural element, what action does it make? Think of Ulysses. And then study the "island" that the word occurs near. Does it look to you like something might be on written on that island?
YES, it does...can anyone make out what they think it may be?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:55 AM
by: raymjess (4 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 04, 2005
Hi, this is my first time posting. I have been reading for quite a while and find all your thoughts very interesting.
I felt like I should respond to what was written under the three islands. I am french canadian , when I looked at the map I thought it said : Les trois ?lots meaning 3 small islands, not les trois lots.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 10:58 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
What might be written on the "rafiot" island?
Please don't mock me; I think my eyes and mind might be playing tricks on me! I see an R? at the left, and M at the right, and at first I thought possibly an A in the middle (it should be a vowel, if the others actually are R and M), so RAM, or possibly ROM?!? I don't know French, so I guess I'm off to look for an on-line French dictionary...
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:02 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Hi raymjess! Welcome and thanks for your input... I guess I was thinking that the "I" you see in front of "lots" was an arrow pointing up... There are lots of arrows on that map!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:03 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
raymjess: Hi, this is my first time posting. I have been reading for quite a while and find all your thoughts very interesting.
I felt like I should respond to what was written under the three islands. I am french canadian, when I looked at the map I thought it said : Les trois ?lots meaning 3 small islands, not les trois lots.
raymjess, THANK YOU for posting this!! I see the very same thing when I look at the maps - "Les trois ?lots". This is what I've seen all along - it's hard to miss the "?". Is French your primary language? Just curious. I'm very glad you posted this.
A, if you read this - I've been wanting to ask if you see the "?" before "lots" on the map... do you see "Les trois lots"... and not "Les trois ?lots"? If not, what do you see the "?" as? An arrow? I'm just trying to sort this out. Since people have been seeing it as "Les trois lots", it's been bugging me - as I know I see an "?" there.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:08 AM
by: raymjess (4 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 04, 2005
I grew up with a french dad and english mom, learnt both languages at the same time.
Rafiot to me means a boat... when I initially saw it I thought that it was where Danielles boat had crashed because i thought I had seen on another map (donèt know how to post links) a spot where the first camp was and this was not to far away...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:14 AM
by: raymjess (4 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 04, 2005
sorry, i made a mistake, I was thinking of the boat drawn on map number 6, on this map I think it says premier camp, wich means first camp, and there seams to be a ship drawn near one of the small islands...
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:12 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
vimes --- I almost didn't see your question about Brendan in the flurry of map activity! My understanding is that we haven't heard this name on the show yet, but that he was referred to in a version of the French Transmission that didn't make the final cut... the line that supposedly got edited out was something like "Brendan stole the keys"... and I'm thinking that a translation of this version of the transmission made it on to the boards, maybe through ABC's Lost website game? Someone please correct me where I'm wrong!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:12 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
I took Rafiot/tub to mean an un-seaworthy boat.
I looked at the map and thought it said I something, or the Roman numeral 1. Also looked like she had drawn some small buildings or something on the far right.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:18:32)
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:13 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Maybe the wrong direction all together but thought it was interesting seeing as we have discused mining in the past.
definition of tub
NOUN:
An open, flat-bottomed vessel, usually round and typically wider than it is deep, used for washing, packing, or storing.
The amount that such a vessel can hold.
The contents of such a vessel.
A bathtub.
Informal A bath taken in a bathtub.
Informal A wide, clumsy, slow-moving boat.
A bucket used for conveying ore or coal up a mine shaft.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:21 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Ada: And then study the "island" that the word occurs near. Does it look to you like something might be on written on that island?
Oh my gosh! I think I SEE IT! I think I see what's written... or part of it! It's a date... perhaps?! Maybe a month, or at least a word - a label (an occurrance... a name?) probably in French, and then "1997".
I definitely see 1997! It's on the right side of what we THOUGHT we were seeing as a boat!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:21 AM
by: chelle309 (44 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
changed my mind. It looks like there's a three (3), then a word I can't make out, then three "buildings" or something like that drawn on the far right.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:18:57)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:26 AM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Chelle --- I think ME is looking at the right place, I think what I thought was an M, is where she sees the "1997". I hope we get a purple answer on ME's question, 'cause if Danielle is dating something 1997, I think we have some re-thinking to do about Danielle and her time on the island... I'm not certain it's 1997, but I can see where you see that, ME!
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:36 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
chen: I hope we get a purple answer on ME's question, 'cause if Danielle is dating something 1997, I think we have some re-thinking to do about Danielle and her time on the island... I'm not certain it's 1997, but I can see where you see that, ME!
I was thinking the same thing about rethinking Danielle's time on the island, but then it occurred to me, years pass for her too... the same years and dates - IF she keeps track of them. Each day, each month, each year passing. Anyway, this might not mean that she landed there sooner than 16 years ago - not sure how much bearing the 1997 date will have on that, if that's what it says.
I've never been convinced she has been there 16 years though. She seemed so surprised to hear that it had been 16 years when Sayid told her that, though she didn't debate it, so we just believed it - because Sayid had said so. I tried to do the calculations a couple months ago, based on the transmitter count number and that Sayid said it would take about 30 seconds for each transmission cycle, and I could never come up with 16 years... but I might have been doing it right.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 11:44 AM
by: figment_ (1298 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 09, 2005
Chen:
Another action associated with a tub is draining it. The Ulysses reference could be Charybdis, the whirlpool, maybe?
I like this idea Chen! Would this mean that the island is Thrinacia?
Then Circe said that after having passed Scylla 1 and Charybdis, Odysseus and his crew would come to the island of Thrinacia, which some say it is Sicily and that was first called Trinacria because of its triangular shape; but some have said that Odysseus was never in the neighbourhood of Sicily.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 12:00 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
davis, here's the link...
http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/maps/map1.jpg
or go to http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/index.html
for the Rafiot/"island" detail.
This appears in the structure that appears ABOVE the word Rafiot. Until today, we all thought it was a ship stranded on a rock.
Chelle, the 1997 is the three little structures I think you're seeing to the far right of the "island"... looks like three little rectangles to you, up on end?
the "1" in 1997 is the first vertical line on the left side of the first little structure you're seeing, and the loop of the first 9 is the right side and top of the first struture.
The loop and vertical line of the second 9 is the top and right side of the second structure.
And the 7 is the top and the right side of the third little structure you're seeing on teh right.
Chelle, trying to not look TOO hard. Kind of step back a bit and look at it from a different persective. I was so programmed to think that was a boat that it wasn't until I finally shut that thought off that I was able to see something else there.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:19:25)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 12:07 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
cac, in beechnut thread: Could it be Alex 1997?
An epitaph?
Marking the spot s/he disappeared?
Could be, cac!
I was just thinking the first letter of the word might be an "R" though... and then after looking at it, the name "Reyes" seemed to be a possibility.... Hurley's last name?
It's really hard to make out that word though - so hard to be sure. I'd swear about the date though - 1997, or MAYBE 1987.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 12:52 PM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
interesting. when i went to babelfish.com and entered in 'rafiot' and did a french to english translation, only one word came up...tub. just like ada said.
where did that other stuff come from? the definition that cac posted? cac, where did you search?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 01:44 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Looking at the map again, it looks to me like the 'island' is being sucked down into a whirlpool. The word that is written on the 'island' is very different to all the other writing on the map, so is probably done by someone else. The map itself might have been done earlier, buy someone else on Danielle's team, but the word was added later, probably by Danielle.
Could Alex have been sucked into a whirlpool of EM waves and Danielle is marking that place on her map?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 01:45 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Hey everyone! I went off-line for a while to do some "real life" and figured that when I checked back here this would be settled... but now I'm more confused than before!
Anni, I've seen that translation of "rafiot" as a broken-down ship on the site that has the maps... What you said made me wonder if the translator was looking for a definition that fit the context and took an English definition of "tub" that worked...
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:19:53)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 02:14 PM
by: chenmeina (168 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
gW --- This is what Danielle says:
Our vessel was 3 days out of Tahiti when our instruments malfunctioned. It was night, a storm, the sounds. The ship slammed into rocks, ran aground, the hull breached beyond repair. So, we made camp, dug out this temporary shelter. Temporary. Nearly 2 months we survived here, 2 months before... from Solitary
Our ship picked up a transmission, a voice repeating those numbers. We changed course to investigate. After we shipwrecked my team continued to search for the transmission source. It was weeks before we found the radio tower. from Numbers
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 04:43 PM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
I wonder if Les Trois Lots are one thing from each time period on the island? One natural thing (the Black Rock), one thing from the experiment (the Hatch) and one from Danielle's time (the thing in the water?) Is one of these the tub? Could the Hatch contain a vortex of EM waves that remind Danielle of a whirlpool?
chen, I think you're right about the Ullysses reference being Charybdis.
Charybdis was once a nymph-daughter of Poseidon and Gaia who flooded lands for her father's underwater kingdom until Zeus turned her into a monster and have her suck in and out water three times an day. She lived in a cave at one side of the Strait of Messina, opposite the monster Scylla, the two of them forming a dangerous threat to passing ships.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/c/charybdis.html
Next came Charybdis, who swallows the sea in a whirlpool, then spits it up again. Avoiding this we skirted the cliff where Scylla exacts her toll. Each of her six slavering maws grabbed a sailor and wolfed him down.
Along with that drowning spoiler from Itsy Bitsy Spider, things are not looking good for the raft.
I'm also wondering if it's wise to break the seal on the hatch right before a monsoon.
From what we've seen, the only 'tub' on the island is the lake that Kate and Sawyer swam in. There's been speculation before that it is a reservoir, or that the reservoir is above the waterfall, so perhaps a whirlpool is created when this is drained then the water is needed. It is also later spit out into the ocean.
That is, IF the waves are water and not EM waves.
raym:I was thinking of the boat drawn on map number 6, on this map I think it says premier camp, which means first camp, and there seams to be a ship drawn near one of the small islands...
I think the small islands might be the rocks Danielle's ship crashed on. Are we sure Danielle's ship was a ship and not a submarine?
I appreciate why you're doing it, but we try not to bump this thread too often because every time we reach 1000 posts, we have to start a new one. Editing one of your old posts is another way to bump.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:20:17)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 06:08 PM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Found, it just finished. I can't comment until later due to the west coast not seeing it yet. How do you watch it in the UK? That's where I'm from originally but live in the US now and I'm always telling my friends over there that if it comes on British TV, to watch it.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 06:12 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
yes, that's right, Found - as davis said... we don't talk about the show on the Episode Titles thread until the west coast has a chance to see it. however, there are usually a lot of other threads on the board started by folks who don't even wait until the show is over on the east coast before posting about it, so you might want to check there if you find yourself unable to wait.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 06:45 PM
by: FoundinUK (31 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 01, 2005
No, No...I don't want to be spoiled at all. I am trying to stay away until I can watch the eps myself. I just crept in knowing that you would not be posting anything of importance yet (out of respect to the EastCoasters).
I just caught the first eps while vacationing in US, now that I am back I have to rely on friends to send or wait for Brit airing. I really do respect your attitude to 'keep mouth shut until everyone can join in' so now is the time for me to leave until I can join you again.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 04 @ 09:19 PM
by: Maetrena (85 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 26, 2005
Ah... the greater good is back. Sayid's speech parallels Daddy Sheppard's speech pretty nicely, don't you think? They both use their powers of persuasion and get someone close to them to engage in immoral behavior for their own selfish reasons.
These two instances coincide nicely with one of the main themes of Lost... that only when the individual follows his or her own conscience is the "greater good" actually served. And they also coincide nicely with Outlaws/ Numbers discussion of free will/ destiny and Deus Ex Machina's discussion of "false gods."
Some more random questions:
- What's wrong with Jack?
- If Nadia was living quietly in CA under her real name, why the hell was she so hard to find? Also, what type of organization was she active with in Iraq and why was the CIA watching her in the U.S.? (I thinking that she might have been (or be) involved with an Iranian based organization).
- How did Shannon find the guns? I thought that Jack kept them in a more secure/ secret hiding place than that.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:20:45)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 04 @ 09:30 PM
by: godWhacker (1408 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 30, 2005
Reverse that. What if Nadia had been working against the Iraqi govt. all along--- His bosses were right.
She could be laying low now.
Then again maybe the CIA was full of it and doctored some photos just to get the explosives.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 06:57 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Maetrena: - How did Shannon find the guns? I thought that Jack kept them in a more secure/ secret hiding place than that.
Maetrena, I was thinking about the same thing this morning, and what I concluded is what A. has been telling us all along... they are all 'special'.
In the Itsy Bitsy spider thread, someone asked A. if Charlie using "drowned" instead of "washed" is maybe a clue or premnition to what is going to happen, and A. responded with something like, "I keep saying it, but no one will listen... they are all 'special'."
To me, this means, Charlie does have a premonition about a drowning - perhaps someone on the raft, I'd think. He was singing when he had the premonition, and I don't even think he was conscious of us, so maybe his 'special' thing - his psychic abilities/premonitions occur when he's singing... and come out through whatever songs he's singing at the time.
Anyway, there are two things Shannon would have had a hard time knowing in Greater Good - where the guns are, and exactly where to find Locke. How did she know? She is 'special'!
And did anyone catch that look that Walt gave Locke when Locke was washing up without his shirt on? Walt really seemed freaked out - I think he was "reading" something from Locke - picking up an intuition. Perhaps, where he had his shirt off and was washing up, Locke's defenses were down a bit and Walt was better able to read him?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 07:36 AM
by: pau_hana (244 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
ME, I said to myself last night the look Walt gave Locke was a perfect mixture of fear and a "What up?" look.
I know A always calls Walt a creepy kid, but I always found Locke to be a little creepy myself. This harks back to Special and Michael's (over)reaction to Walt hanging around Locke. Michael could sense the danger that Locke was to his son, and even threatened Locke on pain of death. Now Walt is sensing this too.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 07:44 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
pau, I posted that same post in the itsy bitsy spider thread, and A. responded... saying that Walt is perhaps simply rethinking this man he had idolized who fell off his pedistal. that he's just drawing conclusions. she made it sound like it wasn't premontions. Oh well!
I still think that Locke's involvement in Boone's death, the lying, doing things in secret, etc... has made Walt see Locke from a different perspective - and now, as you said, he's starting to understand where his dad was coming from in his worry - as you said. I think this is what Ada was saying too. She just made it sound like it had nothing to do with being special or 'reading' him in a psychic/premonition sense, but just the way we all do as human beings.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:21:09)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 05 @ 08:04 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Things I noted from Greater Good (after watching it once - I'll probably add more after I re-watch it. Felt like there was a lot of info thrown out at us at a very fast pace last night - was hard to keep up! ):
1. The CIA lady told Sayid that they snatched him up because he's "no one".
2. CIA lady referred to Nadia as "Noor Bergestine" - or something like that? He said no one calls her "Noor" - except people very close to her, I think he meant. Nadia said something in past FBs about how no one called her that since childhood, I think? So, this was done to convince Sayid that they really knew where she was located - that this was for real. But, might have all been a trick - just like the adoptive parents in LA that Claire was on her way to see. Though, maybe Nadia really IS in CA.
3. Did the CIA lady say that Nadia is in Irvine, CA? And something about that Nadia working in medical research? Or something medical related? Or science? That was a part that was too fast for me to catch (can't wait to re-watch!).
4. Sayid's friend Hasam said he has a philosophy degree.
5. When Shannon was Talking to Locke on the beach, the waves were very rough... did Locke say a storm is coming? I couldn't quite hear - I'll pay closer attention when I re-watch
6. Locke to Shannon: "I know what it's like to lose family." - was he talking about his sister, and/or his step mother (who he WAS close enough with to refer to her as "mother")? Or was he talking about Cooper? Or all??
7. Kate put sleeping pills in Jack's juice. Was this the right had waving - to make us think the one who is poisoning someone... or is it a clue that she is the one? She has access to the meds then, and knows which meds are sleeping pills.
8. Jack looked terrible! He had circles under his eyes, his eyes looked red... or the eyelids... he was staggering, sweating, shortness of breath, vomiting... looked like he hasn't been able to sleep.
9. Michael said to Walt: "We are not going to die." He said this the same way that Jack kept saying that Boone is not going to die. But is this a premonition of Michael's, or positive thinking?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 08:27 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Ok, after watching last night my husband and I thought that Kate looked pregnant when she was walking through the jungle looking for Jack. Now it could just have been the angle of the camera so I took a look at the screen caps and I still think she could be in the very early stages. I also noticed in these two images, what appears to be a very thin thread/wire to Kate's right, running up and leftwards. Does anyone else see it and do you think it's important or just part of the plants?
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 08:38 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
davis, that DEFINITELY looks like a wire to me! Not sure if it's supposed to be part of what's going on on the island, or if it's just a mistake that accidentally made itself into the scene.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 08:36 AM
by: pau_hana (244 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
1. Good catch! On 2 viewings I missed that one.
2.Noor, like Queen Noor of Jordan, former beauty queen from Texas originaly. I didn't catch the last name, have to wait for the transcripts to see if there is anything in it.
3. Irvine CA, conveniantly located just south of Tustin!
4. Philosophy, eh? Missed that too. Caught the Cairo University, though.
5. Yes he did.
6. So much to choose from.
7. He didn't seem too upset about that, freaking out at everything else, however.
8. Symptoms of whatever is ailing him?
9. He did say that the same way. Full on foreshadowing by the writers methinks.
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:21:36)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 05 @ 08:40 AM
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Last one for a while today, I'm supposed to be working. The uniform that Sayid and his friend wear to do the 'job' has a logo on it. If someone has some spare time, maybe they could do some research and see what it brings up.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 08:50 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
pau, thanks for the responses. i realized i had messed up my numbering on my list and didn't fix it before posting, so I just did. you might want to adjust the numbering of your responses if your responding to certain numbers on my list.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 09:48 AM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
good morning all! what a great show. i couldn't wait to watch! what in the world are we going to do all summer? cry, i suppose...
ok. this has been bothering me since last night, and it keeps bugging me.
from 'Solitary'
FB...Nadia..."Nobody calls me Nor, Sayid. You of all people should know that. What? You don't remember me? Am I so different from the little girl in the school yard who used to push you in the mud?"
Rousseau..."But Nadia. You left her too?"
Sayid..."She wasn't on the plane. She's dead. Because of me."
ok. so, her real name is Nor (maybe Noor, as said earlier). so the cia lady really did know who she was.
she works at a science/medical lab in Irvine, CA. she was obviously not a terrorist, or was working with 'our' side.
in the fb, nadia mentions sayid's money (family's wealth) and from last nights epi fb, we know that he attended university in cairo, and by his high ranking in the republican guard, it was be easy to assume that his family was powerful, influential. however, the cia lady told him they chose him because he was a "no one" (i believe that was the line). that doesn't make sense to me...i wouldn't think he was a "no one", given who or what his family was, also, if he was a 'no one' then why had then been keeping up with him? they knew all of his movements over the years...hmmmm doesn't add up.
also, if he has spent the last 6 or 7 years chasing down Nadia, and if he had finally 'found' her (knew where she was and had a plane ticket to get there), then why did he tell Rousseau that she was dead...because of him?
and, if he was on this flight to LA to go find her, then why has it been so easy for him to just forge into a new relationship with Shannon? i mean, they've only been out there for a month, has he completely given up that they will ever get off of the island?
i am also skeptical that sayid, with all of his knowledge, training, background hasn't gone off to explore this island. i mean, COMMON! i'm a mom...not trained in anything technical or survival or outdoors...and i can tell you now...i would NOT be sitting there sun bathing! i'd be out walking the perimeter of the island, mapping it...something. oh yeah! the maps. sayid has them. he even thought that he's figured some stuff out, but hasn't acted on them at all. he's never ventured out to find the areas that Rousseau has marked. why?
he isn't making sense to me. he seems to be doing the opposite of what would be natural for him...if he could wait 7 years to find Nadia...why can't he wait to see if they get off this island? what does he know?
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:21:59)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 05 @ 10:08 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
anni: she works at a science/medical lab in Irvine, CA. she was obviously not a terrorist, or was working with 'our' side.
why do you say that she obviously was not a terrorist, or that she was working with our side? i haven't seen anything to indicate this yet, especially nothing obvious. is it because if this was true, the CIA would have picked her up? we're not even sure if she was really there, or maybe they DID pick her up, and didn't tell Sayid that. They are clearly aware of her, and where she is.
anni: however, the cia lady told him they chose him because he was a "no one" (i believe that was the line). that doesn't make sense to me...i wouldn't think he was a "no one", given who or what his family was, also, if he was a 'no one' then why had then been keeping up with him? they knew all of his movements over the years...hmmmm doesn't add up.
the "no one" comment was in response to Sayid saying that he's not a terrorist. the cia lady said they know, that they grabbed because he's a no one... ie., not a terrorist.
i'll be back to answer more soon, anni... great post so far!
It's interesting that the explosives came from a post near Melbourne. Wasn't the name of the company where Locke had reservations called Melbourne Walkabouts?
Sayid's uniform has a nametag reading "Steve" that is upside down:
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 10:15 AM
by: cac120 (1128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
I suspect Sayid has seen more of the island than he's letting on. It took him a week to find Danielle's house, but returned in a few hours. Something frightened him so badly that he didn't want to return to that part of the island, and I don't think it was the Whispers or Danielle's big gun.
Sayid still has a day before his flight. He must learn something more about Nadia. Perhaps someone at his friend's funeral tells him something. Maybe he as on his way to LA to identify or claim her body too.
Working in a lab seems awfully mundane for someone who used to be part of the Iraqi resistance. Could it be a cover? Or witness protection? That might explain why he hasn't been able to find her in 7 years.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 10:43 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Song, great observations! I was just in the process of examining the screen shots, but hadn't gotten that far yet.
Funny about the upside down Steven - running joke, perhaps? Scott is the one who died - does this mean Steve will die next, or, as I said, just a running Scott/Steve joke on the show?
As far as Nadia and Locke connection - I wonder if she was involved with Cooper somehow... working for him... somehow involved in the "design" that Locke's part of... or had something to do with the transplant/operation.
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 11:02 AM
by: annipadanni (169 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 17, 2005
ahhh just rewatched the scene with the cia agent and sayid in the interrogation room...
sayis says..."i'm iraqi...not a terrorist"
cia agent..."we didn't pick you up because you are a terrorist...BECAUSE YOU KNOW ONE..." she then puts a photo of his old room mate from college in front of him and the asis guy proceeds to tell sayid about his activities...
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(Date Posted:11/14/2005 10:22:39)
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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Posted: May 05 @ 11:09 AM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 11:58 AM
by: Adawhen (2807 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 17, 2004
Anni, good catch on what was being said. Does it make sense? Think it through, and it will. Seven years ago, Sayid had family that he was trying to protect. Now he doesn't. What happened?
by: daviscbls (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Seven years ago, Sayid had family that he was trying to protect. Now he doesn't. What happened?
They must have been killed, as Sayid feared when he helped Nadia to escape. So either he left Iraq and they were killed or they were killed so he left Iraq. I think I'm going with him deserting as he wanted to, so they were killed.
He must still have access to money though, if he can afford to spend 'three months here, six months there.'
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 12:12 PM
by: figment_ (1298 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 09, 2005
Has anyone else noted a possible connection between the CIA/ASIS and Lenny/Sam Toomey and Kalgoorlie...could this be evidence of some long-term government collaboration? I posted this earlier and have not yet received a response:
Re:Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 4
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Posted: May 05 @ 12:14 PM
by: MEandthesea (1177 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
ada: Anni, good catch on what was being said. Does it make sense? Think it through, and it will. Seven years ago, Sayid had family that he was trying to protect. Now he doesn't. What happened?
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