by: lucky4me8 (546 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Just to share the wealth, there was another clue regarding the Hanso/Master Jup stuff over on back_gammon's Joop thread: "run zanzibar with the numbers" in a search. The only interesting or relevant thing I found was a site showing when Jupiter would be eclipsed by the moon, as viewed from Zanzibar. Hmm.
I'll come back w/the link if anyone wants it.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lovelost17 (5 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 10, 2005
Does anyone else think that Libby may be one of the Others? She's a clinical psycologist, fits right in with Dharma...and her reactions seem a little fake when they talk about the others "did you see the kids", and "Oh God" after they hear the whispers.
Another piece of evidence...Cindy was at the bottom of the cliff when they were lifting Sawyer up, and Libby was right ahead of her. Libby didn't even glance back, and she had to know Cindy was last in line behind her.
One more question, did anyone else notice the tree with the green mark on it - it's the first tree in the jungle scene with the Tailies after the Charlie / Locke backgammon game.
Message was edited by: lovelost17
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Does anyone else think that Libby may be one of the Others? She's a clinical psycologist - and her reactions seem a little fake when they talk about the others "did you see the kids", and "Oh God" after they hear the whispers. Also, Cindy was at the bottom of the cliff when they were lifting Sawyer up, and Libby was right ahead of her. Libby didn't even glance back, and she had to know Cindy was last in line behind her. Also, did anyone else notice the tree with the green mark on it - it's the first tree in the jungle seen with the Tailies after the Charlie / Locke backgammon game.
I think the likelihood that either Cindy or Libby is a plant is 80%. I break it down as Cindy: 60%, Libby 20%.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lovelost17 (5 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 10, 2005
Thanks Sneaker! One more thought - remember the epi where Kate & Sawyer find the Halliburton case in the water near the waterfall (can't recall the name right now and too lazy to look up =)), there was the whisper in the jungle that said "HELP"? Think there is any connection between Walt's 'appearances' and the waterfall in that scene?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (546 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
One more question, did anyone else notice the tree with the green mark on it - it's the first tree in the jungle scene with the Tailies after the Charlie / Locke backgammon game.
Message was edited by: lovelost17
Lovelost--I'm so glad you said that about the tree! There was a point early in the season, and now I can't remember if it was a new show or I was watching an episode from season 1 on DVD, but I thought there was green paint or something on one of the trees! So I bet you're right--I didn't see the one you did, but I'm going to go back and look. If I find it I'll try to post a screencap. Good catch!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (546 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Blue, what were the marks you saw? Were they in the jungle? I saw another that was green like this one, and I think it was either in Exodus or in MOSMOF. what do you make of it? Do you think they're marking a trail, or the tree inself, or something else?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LostinBlue (2532 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
From the picture that was posted, it could easily be the tree itself. Many trees in the topics (and elsewhere - like the desert) have photosynthetic branches and stems.
I don't know if the other marks that were seen look exactly like that one.
I'll have to revisit my observation from the tailies side. I know I posted it in an earlier ET thread. If I recall it was a band around a branch, maroonish maybe? I could be totally off.
I've heard of other tree observations. Especially in MoS/MoF. Don't recall if they were exactly explained or if it was "look at the trees" sort of thing.
I know we had a pointer that there was explanation found "in the dark around the hatch." I'll try to find that clue, too.
Man, my memory is off tonight. I haven't been on the boards a lot in the last few days. Sometimes it feels like a foreign language. If I've had a break, it takes a while to become fluent again.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LostinBlue (2532 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
Mars- I'm not either of those. But thanks! Appreciate it.
Any more on the timelines and maps here? The map thread seems to be of interest now. Can anyone list and map where the visions took place? When? Maybe start with the most obvious?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
It's not complete, but it's the best we have, I think.
As for the visions ... Jack saw Christian on the beach and was led to the caves. Claire had her dream at the beach. Locke had his vision at the hatch. Shannon saw Walt in the jungle, possibly near the hatch and/or the crater mountain. The Whispers have been heard only in the jungle, but at various places around the island.
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
Do the whispers only result when there is confrontation perhaps? In last week's episode AL was tearing into Eko about how Cindy's disappearance is "on you" ... and they're suddenly interrupted by the whispers.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
Looking at the thread that the Roman God of War directed us to, we're to infer that The Others live inland due to some issue with sensitivity to light / the sun. Further indications of this would seem to be the existence of "The Dark Territory" as well as the fact that they kidnapped Walt at night.
Now, the poster that is having the discussion with A certain someone apparantly figured out the significance of the numbers based upon these clues:
Look, break it down! I'm telling you, everything is already in your hands!
- Where do the whispers occur?
-Where don't they occur?
- What is being said during them?
- What is a Territoire Fonce?
Just go over it! Put it in order, and walk through it, and you'll figure it out.
Then whats the numbers? What does Danielle have to to with anything?
Pssst. Come here.
MAKE A TIMELINE!
Grr.
I've been reading you posts and you've been saying that for months, but what does that have to do with 4815162342?
wrong.
No I'm not. It's 4815162342.
HAH! Look, lets see if this will make sense to you. If you make a timeline, some things shoudl fall into place for you.
The numbers are immersed in the island history. They will reccur over and over again. Get used to it!
Because the character have a symbiotic relationship with the island, the numbers will reccur in their lives as well.
Now, here's the thing. Make a timeline. It's important! I wouldn't mislead you! Make it, and you'll notice something. Really!
If I make the timeline will I figure the island out?
Maybe! There's been nothing to stop someone from figuring it out since the hatch was shown, but is there something in the timeline that will be a Eureka? No.
There is some back and forth where the poster gets frustrated and then suddenly ...
I feel stuipid it took me that long. I get it. I already found the first one and the second one. How stupid do I look that I didn't see this before?
by: OneisLost (103 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 21, 2004
Well don't stop there damnit! Tell us what was figured out! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We did cover the whisperers being sensitive to sunlight in the first incarnation of this thread, I think. That's one of the reason we figured they lived underground. Whole discussion about that's what made Ethan crazy, walking around in the sunlight in the treetops...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: rtic_ice (20 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 03, 2005
Lovelost--I'm so glad you said that about the tree! There was a point early in the season, and now I can't remember if it was a new show or I was watching an episode from season 1 on DVD, but I thought there was green paint or something on one of the trees! So I bet you're right--I didn't see the one you did, but I'm going to go back and look. If I find it I'll try to post a screencap. Good catch!
I was looking around in the plot thread and someone made a connection with the green stripe on the tree to something green Locke is playing with when he's sitting on the log with Claire, right before he holds the baby. Very subtle.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (546 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi G man. I think we have to take Adam and Eve into account, and the Black Rock. I'm trying to think about the history of the island in new ways, but I'm not getting very far. One thing I thought might be interesting is to look at the numbers individually, as if each represents a separate cycle for a phenomenon on the island. For example, every 4 years, this happens, every eight years, that happens. Or months, days, etc. Not coming up with much though.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Hi G man. I think we have to take Adam and Eve into account, and the Black Rock. I'm trying to think about the history of the island in new ways, but I'm not getting very far. One thing I thought might be interesting is to look at the numbers individually, as if each represents a separate cycle for a phenomenon on the island. For example, every 4 years, this happens, every eight years, that happens. Or months, days, etc. Not coming up with much though.
I guess everyone is trying to do the same. The news that someone may have cracked the code appearently has been very dishearting for this thread. I don't think anyone wants to post until they have an good lead on the answer. I like your thoughts about each number being a separate cycle. I haven't looked at it that way yet, but it makes a lot of sense I think. I've always had a theory about some numbers are "bad" and some are "good". I would think that 8 and 15 are bad (Flight 815, Shannon's father dies at 8:15) but I can't find a pattern that supports this either way. A keeps saying it should be obvious... that one thing should stick out more than others to give us a start, but I just can't put my finger on it.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: blissfullylost (91 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
Can I ask a silly question?
Why do people think that the "sun" in the mural is not a sun, but a meteorite? It looks like a sun to me? With all the name references that mean "light" etc, and references to a dark territory, and everyone living underground, I just wondered why?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: avoidnwork (897 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 13, 2005
CAC - if you are around, could you go mail me, please. I have a question and I don't want to go through the trouble of typing all out if you are not here.
-Avoidnwork
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
A certain poster last season gave us clues to that effect. Well to the effect that a meteor hit the island at some point (not that the mural has a meteor).
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Hi, I just got caught up from a few days off the boards and I wanted to say that I'm not disheartened by the thread on the character board... to me it gives us more direction, timeline plus numbers, right? I enjoy trying to fit the pieces of the puzzle together (with the help of all of you src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> ), so I feel grateful (not discouraged) that Poor and her friend had their discussion in a public forum, so we could attempt to glean something from it, and bravo to Poor's friend for making progress!
So, numbers plus timeline, what about thinking about island events from years ago...
16 is Danielle's group 8 could be the Beechcraft 23 could be from the early years of Dharma on the island 42 could be the construction of the hatch (A friend once pointed to the early 1960's for that, I think) or Adam and Eve
This is how the numbers seem to be used in the individual characters lives, too --- we've seen a lot from 4 years ago, for instance...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Something I've been wondering about that I want to share before I forget (even though it doesn't fit into the flow of discussion here at this point)...
We've been encouraged to think about the "commonality" between Shannon and Walt (in the context of "why is Walt appearing to Shannon?"). To me the obvious commonality is Vincent, but that seems like misdirection to me... Could the commonality be loss? I've seen the idea of Shannon lost Boone, Walt lost his mom, but what about the idea of Shannon lost Boone, Walt lost Michael ('cause I would think that's what it must feel like to be Walt, snatched by the Others, watching your dad, whom you've finally connected with, being blown-up and left to drown). What did Rose say? Something about losing the one person on the island that you loved?
If (big if) this works, then will Sayid (who told Shannon he loves her) have the same kind of connection with Walt now?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
They had someone separate and enhance some of the channels to get some clarity. Does anyone else have a translation? Here's what I got (pieces of it, not a whole breakdown of each channel):
"She likes him" "She dies now" "She's (They're?) coming" "Dying Sucks" (in case George ate it: s u c k s) "Hi Sis" "She's coming" "Dying sucks" (same as before) "see her" "Hurry up" "Hussy" (?)
And playing part of it backwards yields: "Why is Sayid hugging Shannon?"
FWIW- probably need more of you all to listen to the podcast or other sources to verify some of this interpretation.
But the "Dying sux" and "Hi sis" certainly sounds like a big bro we lost last season.....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Yes- the whispering they all heard at the end of "Abandoned". I don't think they noted what was the Tailies and what was S/S. I believe it was simply in order although given the first line is "She likes him", I have to believe this starts after Sayid/Shannon hug in the rain.
IMHO (based on what they played in the LOSTcast #8), I did think the "Dying sucks" was pretty clear-- VERY strange considering Boone's first lines in the episode were "Death Sucks".
The backwards sentence was VERY faint, and may be open to interpretation.
But I post it here mainly to confront the POSSIBLE evidence related elsewhere.
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
beau: A keeps saying it should be obvious... that one thing should stick out more than others to give us a start, but I just can't put my finger on it.
I always thought 42 stood out rather prominently. On Hurley's lottery ticket, 42 is separated from the rest of other numbers in its own box... and labeled as the "Mega Number". That alone is rather telling... and I always thought there was something significant about that. On the immunization/drug vials Desmond gets from the medicine cabinet, "42" is separated from the other numbers from a hyphen. I was going to go see if the numbers on the labels of the food in the pantry appear the same way or not.
It's funny - catching up on this thread today, after I got home from work, and reading that someone cracked the numbers code and reading the reaction here about it, I didn't get the impression that anyone here is disheartened. I'm certainly not. I agree with chen.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: jbbrennan (38 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 20, 2005
Wait! I'm confused, but what else is new? The hoo hoos (weird walking "thems"?) are not light sensitive...it was daylight when Jin and Eko hid from them, and they were in a sort of clearing, not dark at all. So, the light sensitive ones must be the Whisperers and the hoo hoos must be the weird walkers. So, if I was a Whisperer, and the hatch was taken, I would head to the Black Rock because it is already pretty well protected from things that walk, and even Danielle knew how to avoid the monster, so if I WAS trying to hide, I would hide in a banyan tree in the Dark Territory.
--jasmine
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Thank you, Sneaker.
You're welcome (sort-of)-- I know this sort of thing often ASKS more questions than answers.....
Also: AOL does not have any clips from the next episode yet, but they do have a portion of the new ABC podcast (a bunch of Evangeline stuff about Charlie's death last season-- nothing new, and some beat around the bush stuff on "The Other 48 Days" from Carlton & David):
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Wait! I'm confused, but what else is new? The hoo hoos (weird walking "thems"?) are not light sensitive...it was daylight when Jin and Eko hid from them, and they were in a sort of clearing, not dark at all. So, the light sensitive ones must be the Whisperers and the hoo hoos must be the weird walkers. So, if I was a Whisperer, and the hatch was taken, I would head to the Black Rock because it is already pretty well protected from things that walk, and even Danielle knew how to avoid the monster, so if I WAS trying to hide, I would hide in a banyan tree in the Dark Territory.
--jasmine
Say, did we ever arrive at consensus (yeah, right! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>) about who actually set up and lit that fire on the beach that Sayid/Charlie found before taking Aaron back from Danielle?
I recall there were no footprints and there was a lot of discussion about the tide coming in to cover up the footprints, or someone carefully hiding them.
Has there been any modification of theory about this in the light of "Hoo-Hoo Lightfoot" (Gordon's little brother)???
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: jbbrennan (38 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 20, 2005
Sneaker, I was thinking about what you wrote earlier:I wonder: If the black smoke is associated with (or simply IS) the Whisperers, then maybe there is enmity between them & the Monster.
I don't think they are the same thing, because the people who SAW the black smoke Kate, Jack, (poss.) Locke & Hurley (on the way back with dynamite) haven't heard the whispering and the black smokey stuff did make a noise in that scene but it was more mechanical/insectoid than words.
Also, in your transcript of the whisperings in the Sayid/Shannon scene, I found the line "she dies now" interesting because it's a strange way to phrase that--the average American whisperer would probably say: "she's gonna die, now" or something like that... it sounds like an ESL type of construction, don't you think? --jasmine
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Ok, I've been looking at the island timeline, and I think I'm starting to see a pattern/connection with the numbers! (but would welcome help in thinking about this):
1954-1964 Adam and Eve
1970 Dharma Initative was founded
--> Difference between 1970 and 1954 = 16
1980 Orientation film was created
1988 Danielle and team crash on island
--> Difference beween 1980 and 1988 = 8
1994-2002 Beachcraft
2002 Desmond crashes on the island
(bear with me on this - explanation of why I say 2002 in stead of 2001 is below)
--> Difference between 1994 and 2002 = 8
2004 Oceanic crashes
--> Difference between 1988 and 2004 = 16
That's as far as I've gotten so far - and I'm not quite sure what it all means... need to step back and look at it some more. I also don't know why only 8 and 16 are showing up.
Footnote:
Why 2002 for Desmond's crash: Ok, so I KNOW Desmond said he'd been there 3 years since he crashed on the island, but looking at concrete numbers and information we know - no tweaking the numbers to fit: Shannon said she was 20 when Hurley did the census, and she was 18 at her dad's funeral - two years earlier. That was when Sarah's accident was, and when Jack and Desmond met. So, I'm proposing that either time is a bit wonky on the island and Desmond THINKS it's been 3 years, but it's only been 2 years, or he's lying for some reason. For the sake of argument, and this exercise, let's say he crashed 2 years ago, which would be in synch with Shannon's age. This also means that Jack and Sarah got married the year of the Oceanic crash. Maybe Sarah died that same year, and that's why the ER didn't call him right away when the other patient was brought in, especially since she was in a car accident too.
Message was edited by: MEandthesea - made a correction
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sayidsaid (13 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 04, 2005
Very good observations (except that I don't think 1994 fits in because 1980 would be 14 years ago and 1988 would be 6 years ago).
Somebody started it by looking at 1965 being the date the Hanso Corporation started up. A couple of numbers added to 1965 add up to pretty important years in terms of the island. Don't remember offhand who started with 1965, but he/she might have also been on the right track.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: SuzQdotcom (9 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 10, 2005
Footnote:
Why 2002 for Desmond's crash: Ok, so I KNOW Desmond said he'd been there 3 years since he crashed on the island, but looking at concrete numbers and information we know - no tweaking the numbers to fit: Shannon said she was 20 when Hurley did the census, and she was 18 at her dad's funeral - two years earlier. That was when Sarah's accident was, and when Jack and Desmond met. So, I'm proposing that either time is a bit wonky on the island and Desmond THINKS it's been 3 years, but it's only been 2 years, or he's lying for some reason. For the sake of argument, and this exercise, let's say he crashed 2 years ago, which would be in synch with Shannon's age. This also means that Jack and Sarah got married the year of the Oceanic crash. Maybe Sarah died that same year, and that's why the ER didn't call him right away when the other patient was brought in, especially since she was in a car accident too.
ME - When Shannon's dad died, I got the feeling that she had not been 18 years old for very long. When she told Hurley she was 20, she could well have been closer to her 21st b'day - and Desmond could easily have 'rounded up' a couple of extra months to say '3 years' when perhaps it was only 2ys 8 mons, or so. So isn't it possible that they BOTH could be right, or rather than NEITHER is lying?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (546 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Nice job, ME! I was just going to add the Hanso Foundation date too. If it was founded in 1965, then 1965 + 23 = 1988, and 1965 + 15 = 1980 (Orientation).
I've been wondering if perhaps there are certain cycles to the island associated with individual numbers (perhaps every 4 years, for example, ship, planes, etc. are drawn magnetically). I'm still thinking about all of this...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
SayidSaid:Very good observations (except that I don't think 1994 fits in because 1980 would be 14 years ago and 1988 would be 6 years ago).
You're correct - my math error... I'll correct my post.
However, 1994 still fits because 1994 is 8 years before 2002 (i.e. Desmond crashed 8 years after the Beachcraft).
I saw that G-man was looking at 1965 as the start up date of the Hanso Corp, and was going from there.... but I decided to start with the timeline instead, as A. suggested... rather than the date 1965.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
SuzQ:ME - When Shannon's dad died, I got the feeling that she had not been 18 years old for very long. When she told Hurley she was 20, she could well have been closer to her 21st b'day - and Desmond could easily have 'rounded up' a couple of extra months to say '3 years' when perhaps it was only 2ys 8 mons, or so. So isn't it possible that they BOTH could be right, or rather than NEITHER is lying?
Yes, I definitely hear what you're saying - I know that whole theory. : ) Cac and I have talked about the exact same thing quite a bit, and I think cac even posted it. But that's why I asked, for the sake of argument and what I was figuring out with the timeline and numbers... that you bear with me and go with the ages Danielle gave in those scenes, without tweaking the ages... for this timeline, again, for the sake of (peaceful) argument, let Desmond's crash date be 2002.
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
In case A swings by.... Did any Flysail & Claire adventures beyond chapter 20 get posted?
If it's not out there, as long as there's all this note-passing src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (395 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Another long catch up post from me.
lucky: Does anyone else think that there could be a lot of religious symbolism in Abandoned? ... I'm not sure what all this means with respect to Shannon and Walt, but I don't think that all these things are coincidences in light of the fact that she dies shortly thereafter. Any ideas?
Locke referred to Boone as a "sacrifice the island demanded," which also has religious connotations. I'm also thinking about how violent their deaths were, along with all the other deaths on the island. Adam & Eve are the exception, as they appear to have been peacefully laid to rest.
lucky: We had orange with Jin and Sun symbolizing love. Something being communicated about love with Boone and Shannon?
From the Whisper transcript that Sneaker posted, it sounds like Boone is calling Shannon to him. It also points out that Shannon "likes" Sayid, but we all know that she LOVED Boone. Looking for commonalities between polar bears and swans, I found out that swans mate for life. Sometimes even after they have been widowed, they do not form such strong attachments with a new partner, remaining faithful to their dead love. Polar bears aren't monogamous, but the swans did remind me of Shannon and Boone.
Welcome to the board, KG! I don't see faces in the jungle, but it sort of looks like there are figures in some of the trees. They sort of look like chimps, actually. Seriously. I do think that the jungle might be the part that's been added. I'm not even sure if there IS a crater at the top of that mountain anymore.
twolfe: One thing that has me wondering, though, is that the whispers tend to include something personal (including the actual voice of someone the whisper-ee knows!) that you wouldn't think strangers would know. Can they telepathically extrapolate that info and send it back out for the losties to hear--maybe to make them think it's some sort of divine message?
Good question. I thought it was something like this, or even the losties own minds adding in the familiar voices, until we were asked who is trying to reach Shannon. I really don't think it's Walt; I think it's Boone. Sawyer heard the man he killed and I think Shannon feels somewhat responsible for Boone's death. Even though she blamed Locke, Shannon feels guilty for not being there when he died and probably also for how she treated him in life. She let Boone down when he needed her and that's why she's so determined to not lose Vincent.
Ada: You have to ask yourself where would you hide...the hatch is taken. So where would you go?
I've been thinking all along that the Whisperers were underground and the Others were in the treetops, but it appears I had this backwards.
Sneaker: Say, did we ever arrive at consensus (yeah, right!) about who actually set up and lit that fire on the beach that Sayid/Charlie found before taking Aaron back from Danielle?
I still think it was the Others, which is partly why I think the Tailies turned inland further up the East side. I think they would light the fire near where they planned to dock their boat, which now appears to be in the caves.
lucky: Did anyone ever read "The Baron in the Trees" by Italo Calvino? One of my all-time favorite books.
No, but I'm interested if you'd care to tell us about it.
Lucky: Just to share the wealth, there was another clue regarding the Hanso/Master Jup stuff over on back_gammon's Joop thread: "run zanzibar with the numbers" in a search. The only interesting or relevant thing I found was a site showing when Jupiter would be eclipsed by the moon, as viewed from Zanzibar. Hmm.
Haven't they also found that Joop really means Jupiter? I haven't been following that thread, so if there's anything else, please post it here.
G Man, would it be okay to wait until we get to 1000 again before I make a new thread?
Bliss, the "sun" in the mural could be a sun. It could represent more than one thing. I think we decided it was the meteorite because that seems to be at the centre of the island mystery.
G Man, you left out the bit about rearranging the numbers, which you might recall, is integral to my portals theory.
The Whispers occur in the jungle, sometimes in small clearings, but never on the beach or in the valley.
They talk about needing help but being afraid whether they can trust the Losties to ask for it. They speak in the voices of people who the hearer feels responsible for the death of. On the North side, the whispering precedes attacks.
A Territoire Fonce is an area where radio waves are blocked, where transmissions cannot be received.
The Whispers seem to work the same way. Maybe Danielle chose to live in the Territoire Fonce because she couldn't hear the Whispers there. Danielle has said that she has heard the Whispering, but she never said where she heard them.
Message was edited by: cac120
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
A Territoire Fonce is an area where radio waves are blocked, where transmissions cannot be received.
The Whispers seem to work the same way. Maybe Danielle chose to live in the Territoire Fonce because she couldn't hear the Whispers there. Danielle has said that she has heard the Whispering, but she never said where she heard them.
I had a thought earlier about the "Dark Territory"--I like the idea that the definition of "fonce" is deep. Before that was posted, though, I was trying to figure out what else "Dark Territory" could mean.
I know nothing about radio or other broadcasting, but isn't an area where there is no radio (or cell) reception called "dark?" So the Dark Territory might be a place where the EM on the island disrupts signals. I tried googling it, but didn't find anything about it. This might tie in somehow with cac's idea that there are no whispers there.
ping
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: penumbra03 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 15, 2005
I believe the commonality between the polar bear and the white swan is that both of them have black skin but a white outer layer (feather/fur). It's the black/white thing again. Duality. In the Middle Ages the white swan (with the black skin) was considered to be a sign of deception.
Sorry to pop in so abruptly. I have enjoyed this thread for a long time and admire your hard work (and I finally had 2 cents to add!)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (395 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Welcome to the board, Pen. Interesting about the swan and deception. That certainly fits with the island.
I've been thinking about the route again, and now I'm starting to think that they did get all the way to the south end before turning inland. They really are too close to the mountain to be anywhere else.
That would mean that the caves are entrances to the hatch under the crater mountain. If this is the parapsychology station, then it's likely that Walt is there which could be why he could appear to Shannon when she is near the mountain.
I think the only place we've seen that long corn-like grass is in the valley, but both groups passed through this and into the jungle before Shannon was killed.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
G Man, would it be okay to wait until we get to 1000 again before I make a new thread?
Cac:
Your thread, your call. I just love reading it and it drives me nuts when these things go past x number of pages. But that's just me ... I'm a high maintenance lurker. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
Re: The Timeline
The only thing that I keep coming back to (as does everyone else) is that the numbers correlate to the number of years (revolutions of the Earth) that pass before "A" happens on the island, causing/allowing "B" to happen (ie - people to end up there). Something about the island's strange magnetic properties keep it hidden from the outside world, but every 4,8,15,16,23, and 42 years something happens to interrupt it and ... voila! The island somehow becomes visible and planes/ships are drawn there.
Year "0" 2004 - Flight 815 crashes
"4" - 2000 - Desmond lands there?
"8" - 1996 - The nigerian drug plane?
"15" - 1989 - ? (Goodwin?)
"16" - 1988 - Danielle's team / the numbers are broadcast
"23" - 1981 - ? ... This is one year post Dharma "incident" however (Namaste!)
"42" - 1962 - Adam and Eve?
I really like the stuff that Back Gammon and Chibeargirl, etal are coming up with regarding Master Joop / Jupiter and this whole thing of Jupiter's occultations, where Jupiter is eclipsed by the moon interfering with Earth's magnetic field. What if the meteor is something that passed thru Jupiter's orbit and became magnetized. Now having crashed on the island, every 4,8,15,... years one of these occultations occurs allowing the island to become visible?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: gingerpeachypie (53 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
twolfe: One thing that has me wondering, though, is that the whispers tend to include something personal (including the actual voice of someone the whisper-ee knows!) that you wouldn't think strangers would know. Can they telepathically extrapolate that info and send it back out for the losties to hear--maybe to make them think it's some sort of divine message?
Good question. I thought it was something like this, or even the losties own minds adding in the familiar voices, until we were asked who is trying to reach Shannon. I really don't think it's Walt; I think it's Boone. Sawyer heard the man he killed and I think Shannon feels somewhat responsible for Boone's death. Even though she blamed Locke, Shannon feels guilty for not being there when he died and probably also for how she treated him in life. She let Boone down when he needed her and that's why she's so determined to not lose Vincent.
Do we think Sayid heard Nadia's or his friend's (whom he betrayed to the CIA) voice in his "whispers"? And, regarding how frightened the Tailies were (and AL's " Run!" response), I wonder if they recognized the voices of their dead Tailies and were freaked out? Or, (basing this on my theory that AL feels somehow responsible for Goodwin's death), did only AL hear something familiar in the "whispers" and associate it with a flight response?
I've been keeping my eye open for treetop scenes and they're rather scarce. While watching ATBCHDI I did notice something a little odd. While Boone and Locke are walking through a clearing (they've just split up with Kate and Jack to look for Claire and Charlie), they come to a field with the jungle right behid them. What I thought were leaves falling my husband pointed out that they were falling too quickly and too deliberately (in a straight trajection). They almost looked like shooting stars. (Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket...) There are only three or four of them, but they felt out of place for the setting.
Also, when Jack is trying to revive Charlie, right before Charlie regains consciousness, Kate turns around and there is a shot of something behind Jack. It looks like possible debris from the wreck. I don't know if it has been discussed yet, but it's bright yellow and metal. A has said that this epi shows how Ethan moved around on the island. Needless to say, I'm studying it exhaustively! (and exhaustingly)
Any thoughts?
Message was edited by: gingerpeachypie
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LostinBlue (2532 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
Also, when Jack is trying to revive Charlie, right before Charlie regains consciousness, Kate turns around and there is a shot of something behind Jack. It looks like possible debris from the wreck. I don't know if it has been discussed yet, but it's bright yellow and metal. A has said that this epi shows how Ethan moved around on the island. Needless to say, I'm studying it exhaustively! (and exhaustingly)
Any thoughts?
gingerpeachypie: Also, when Jack is trying to revive Charlie, right before Charlie regains consciousness, Kate turns around and there is a shot of something behind Jack. It looks like possible debris from the wreck. I don't know if it has been discussed yet, but it's bright yellow and metal. A has said that this epi shows how Ethan moved around on the island. Needless to say, I'm studying it exhaustively! (and exhaustingly) Any thoughts?
Screen cap?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
twolfe/ginger: I'm thinking the whispering is partially driven by the individual's memories. We have often seen parallels bewteen the whispering and episode FB's.
I'm just uncomfortable with the whisperers being somehow voices from beyond the grave. That explanation seems to me less likely than the coma/psycho theories.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
gingerpeachypie: Also, when Jack is trying to revive Charlie, right before Charlie regains consciousness, Kate turns around and there is a shot of something behind Jack. It looks like possible debris from the wreck. I don't know if it has been discussed yet, but it's bright yellow and metal. A has said that this epi shows how Ethan moved around on the island. Needless to say, I'm studying it exhaustively! (and exhaustingly) Any thoughts?
Screen cao?
I thought there was one snafu during the Charlie-resuscitation scene where some production equipment snuck into the frame. There are a couple of these (sound booms popping into a Jungle walking scene, etc.).
by: abraxas1954 (725 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2004
Brax for President!
I'm sorry - if nominated, I will not run.... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
((Now, I am really out the door to go home...))
-Brax
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
G Man, you left out the bit about rearranging the numbers, which you might recall, is integral to my portals theory.
Left it out of what? The exchange on "characters" that A certain poster had? I went back and read it again. Don't see where she indicates they're supposed to be rearranged? Help!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LostinBlue (2532 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
Left it out of what? The exchange on "characters" that A certain poster had? I went back and read it again. Don't see where she indicates they're supposed to be rearranged? Help!
If we run with the rearranged numbers ideas, where does it get us?
Cac - how is it integral to the portals idea?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: gingerpeachypie (53 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
I thought there was one snafu during the Charlie-resuscitation scene where some production equipment snuck into the frame. There are a couple of these (sound booms popping into a Jungle walking scene, etc.).
Sneaker - That's what came to mind. I just couldn't find any discussion about it in past epi threads. I just didn't look deep enough, I guess. Thanks!
I also am not sure I think the voices are from beyond the grave as much as I think a person can "think" they recognize a voice. When we hear whispers, I suppose we try to both distinguish what a person is saying as well as whether we know the voice.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lenny1986 (20 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 16, 2005
I'm sorry if this is a dumb question but I am new to this board (been wo/ a computer for some time). Is there any where that I can go to get the answers to these amazing questions?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
G-man: Left it out of what? The exchange on "characters" that A certain poster had? I went back and read it again. Don't see where she indicates they're supposed to be rearranged? Help!
G-man, apparently there were more to those posts than those of us saw who went back to read after the discussion was finished. I didn't read until afterwards, but I heard that A poster had edited. Sounds like cac read before the edit, so maybe she can fill us in.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: gingerpeachypie (53 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
OK, the 6th surviving male tailie - the guy in the jeans and yellow/khaki shirt. Sandy hair, beard, approx. 40-50. The one on the far L in this screen capture:
The above comments were from another board. I meant to highlight and give credit where credit is due. Sorry. Comments below are mine:
Okay, I'm a little freaked out here. I went back to this screen cap and sure enough, there's this extra guy on the beach. What I also hadn't noticed before, though, was that they entire group of people behind Mr. Eco are all dressed like our Tailies we've met, but they aren't them. As a matter of fact, the person dressed like Cindy looks like a man, and I'm not sure that the person dressed like Libby isn't one also.
I don't know how to do screen caps, but if you go to Adrift, photo # 412, you'll clearly see that these are not our Tailies. Also in Orientation, photo #12, you'll also see the discrepancy.
If this is a production snafu, I'd be surprised. What does this mean? Where are these people and why are they portraying themselves as the Tailies? Why is Eco with them? And, why are there no clear screen shots of AL in this group? She's hidden in every one of them.
Also, check out the scenes where they're dragging Michael, et al, through the jungle to the pit. They're clearly different people. Very masculine features for Cindy and Libby. The guy dressed as Bernard is also the wrong build.
Message was edited by: gingerpeachypie
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
G-man, apparently there were more to those posts than those of us saw who went back to read after the discussion was finished. I didn't read until afterwards, but I heard that A poster had edited. Sounds like cac read before the edit, so maybe she can fill us in.
Thanks, ME. Hopefully Cac can shed a little light on things ...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
ginger:Okay, I'm a little freaked out here. I went back to this screen cap and sure enough, there's this extra guy on the beach. What I also hadn't noticed before, though, was that they entire group of people behind Mr. Eco are all dressed like our Tailies we've met, but they aren't them. As a matter of fact, the person dressed like Cindy looks like a man, and I'm not sure that the person dressed like Libby isn't one also.
If this is a production snafu, I'd be surprised. What does this mean? Where are these people and why are they portraying themselves as the Tailies? Why is Eco with them? And, why are there no clear screen shots of AL in this group? She's hidden in every one of them.
Ginger! LOL! Not to worry!
That isn't actually a "screen cap" - it's a promo photo. The reason they look dressed like the Tailies, but are butt ugly... is because they are "stand ins" for the Tailies, for the promo photo... I'm guessing they are all men, dressed in the same clothes as the Tailies.
Very poor photo to use for a promo photo (I mean, come on - the wigs are terrible), but all I can think is that they shot the photo before they had finished casting the Tailies, or they simply didn't want anyone to know who would be playing those characters at that point.
Oh, and A/L was never with the Tailies on the beach in that scene. Remember... the plan was to throw her down the pit with them later, so she could protend to be a prisoner too, and get info from the rafties.
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Ginger- I saw that other thread too. The only known tailies that guy could be is Bernard, and they would have made him look a bit more like the Bernard we know. I agree that some of these persons are Supposed to be Libby, Cindy, A-L but were not the credited actors we now know (maybe for scheduling issues, or money).
But the concern I brought up in the other thread was that that guy might well be Goodwin (the Tailie who got the point who Jin & Eko find in the jungle). Remember, Libby says there were 23, and A-L confirms they lost 3, then 9, so 23-12 = 11 tailies. But only 5 travel with the Rafties. SO there are 6 unaccounted for tailies. I believe they were attacked by the Others as recently as after they put S/M/J into the pit. A bit unnerving that the Others attacked while our boys were defensless in the pit (or maybe NOT, does being underground offer some defense?).
by: gingerpeachypie (53 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
If AL was never on the beach, then who is standing behind "Libby" in the screen cap? And, why would the PTB post these screen caps for us to scrutinize? Have we had confirmation that these are indeed stand-ins? The guy you're thinking is Goodwin is dressed just like Bernard. If they're standins, then why do you think it's Goodwin?
Also, what about the scenes in the jungle where they're dragging them to the pit? Those are not the Tailies. They're dressed like them, but it's not them. How could the execs think we wouldn't notice this?
If that's the case, what other wild goose chases are we making every day that are because of these intentional gaffs or "mistakes"?
Message was edited by: gingerpeachypie
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
ginger: If AL was never on the beach, then who is standing behind "Libby" in the screen cap? And, why would the PTB post these screen caps for us to scrutinize? Have we had confirmation that these are indeed stand-ins?
Ah, I see the person you mean - that does look like it's supposed to be A/L. My guess is that when they shot the promo pics, they had planned out that scene differently than the final version ended up. They might have changed their minds about when they wanted A/L to first appear to the Tailies... because it wouldn't make sense to have her appear at the beach if they wanted her to act as a prisoner later. So, originally they had her with Eko on the beach, but later changed their minds.
I guess I just don't feel like it's a big mystery. Maybe they didn't think we'd look THAT closely. As far as the doubles portraying the Tailies in the scenes where they're hauling the rafties - well, TV shows use doubles/stunt people all the time. I doubt the guy who played Bernard really wanted to drag several grown men through the jungle in a net. We never saw their faces... just saw them from behind and the side, and they were wearing the Tailies clothes. I think they ARE supposed to be the same Tailies we meet later, even if doubles/stunt folks are playing those parts at the time.
I think wild goose chases like these are our own doing. These things probably happen in other TV shows we watch all the time, but we never know because it's close enough and we don't scrutinize them like we do Lost. JMHO.
Oh, and I definitely think the guy in the yellow shirt is supposed to be Bernard. Again, they might have shot that promo pic before the actor had been hired - so HOW could they have made him look more like the Bernard we know? I just think everyone is overthinking this. It's just a promo photo... NOT what appeared in the show.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Ok, I just went to see the screen cap of that actual scene at the end of Adrift, and it looks like even for the actual scene that aired, they still used a double (or stand in, because those are the most pitiful doubles I've ever seen) for at least Cindy and Bernard:
I guess I still don't think it really means anything though. I don't think it's a clue or relates to any of the storylines or mysteries of the island. Do you guys?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Hi ME! It's WEDNESDAY!!!
I think the far left guy behind the savage attacking Eko is supposed to be Goodwin. We'll get a better shot of him tonight.
I think that guy is taken by others as recently as AFTER the Rafties have been thrown into the pit. There are 6 unaccounted tailies:
23 (per Libby)
less
3 (A-L first night)
less
9 (A-L 2 weeks later)
less
5 (A-L, Bernard, Cindy, Libby, Eko)
leaves
6.
I bet that's Goodwin and the two kids and 3 more. From Libby's reaction about the children, I get the impression they were only recently taken, and possibly taken together in one visit subsequent to the first 11.
One thing about Libby's immediate interest in "the Children". If she is "the plant", then maybe her faction wanted the children, but the "Other others" (hee hee) got them first (possibly to protect them). So when Libby hears about a sighting, she wants confirmation on the whereabouts of the children, but for nefarious reasons.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
The news that someone may have cracked the code appearently has been very dishearting for this thread.
WOW! What a bad choice of words. Sorry, for not making myself clear. I just found it odd that after months of feverious debate and discussion, everyone was strangely quiet. I found this thread in page 3 multiple times and it was almost never on page 1 the majority of the day yesterday. And this on the eve of what promises to be a great episode. It just seemed to me like everyone was working to come up with something concrete to post in light that someone else had discovered the pattern. GREAT JOB ON YOUR DISCOVERY! I did not mean to take anything away from you, I was just commenting on what I thought was the cause of an off day for on-topic discussion.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Sneaker: I bet that's Goodwin and the two kids and 3 more. From Libby's reaction about the children, I get the impression they were only recently taken, and possibly taken together in one visit subsequent to the first 11.
I disagree... I think the kids were taken the first or 14th night... but luckily we won't have to wait long to find out, either way! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
beau: WOW! What a bad choice of words. Sorry, for not making myself clear. I just found it odd that after months of feverious debate and discussion, everyone was strangely quiet. I found this thread in page 3 multiple times and it was almost never on page 1 the majority of the day yesterday.
Oh, THAT is why you thought we seemed "disheartened?" I didn't even learn about the code cracking thing until I got home from work last night and caught up on the thread. It was brought to cac's attention after I had gone to bed, and I was way too busy at work to check in. I'm also fighting a cold. I did notice the thread had slipped a few pages, but I just figured everyone was busy with their real lives in the real world.
beau: It just seemed to me like everyone was working to come up with something concrete to post in light that someone else had discovered the pattern. GREAT JOB ON YOUR DISCOVERY! I did not mean to take anything away from you, I was just commenting on what I thought was the cause of an off day for on-topic discussion.
What did we discover? Well, I mean, we've figured a lot of things out over the past 9 months, but I don't think we cracked the numbers code. I was trying to figure it out last night, but again - not exactly feeling my best, so didn't sink too much time into it. Also, it sounds like that thread was edited before many of us had a chance to read it, so I think there are some pieces to the clues we don't have... so we can't really follow the same line of logic, or thinking.
If someone DID figure out a pattern and crack the code, it sure would be nice if they could share it with the rest of us... no matter who it is... but... only speaking for myself, it certainly doesn't get me down if it's me or you or anyone else.
Anyway, beau... no worries. I think we're just eager to see tonight's episode.
p.s. I've also been busy trying to make Christmas gifts. Lots to do in the next couple months!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Dad: dull knife asks....
someone on plot states that the song Rose is humming while hanging laundry is the same weird song that is on the orientation film.....
no words just humming the melody.....
Is Rose a former Degrooter? There is a black female student in the orientaion film....?
Dad, they're wrong - it's not the same song as the Orientation film... it's the melody of the song that Hurley hears in his dream down in the hatch pantry... the song "Good Conversation".
Thus, a telepathic connection to Hurley.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lostrose (334 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
hi ME, I have a couple ideas that I'm sure all of you have discussed and hoping you can help me with. Does anyone think pushing the button is some sort of pressure release valve - relieving the energy that builds up in whatever they've tried to seal up at the hatch? And how about the rain in the dark territory - could it occur every 108 minutes when they push the button? I'm having so much trouble with the message board, I hope they fix it soon. I can't disable the macromedia, I have windows 98.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
I have posted this a few times in a few other threads and no one has been able to actually answer or give me a clear one. My question is how old did Locke say Adam and Eve are?
Someone was asking about Abandoned and the "spiritual" aspect of the show, in addition to some of the things mentioned, remeber when Locke was swaddling the baby and compared to the Bible of Jesus swaddled in the manger. Is this suppose to mean something in reference to Aaron? I mean Aaron is a Bible name and Claire named him in Exoudus (?) so there are another 2 Bible reference. I know the show has ALOT of religious aspects, but I am wondering if there is something special about Baby Aaron.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
A few comments:
sawyerlost: I think Jack estimated that Adam and Eve's bodies had been in the cave 40 to 50 years...
ginger: the clue about how Ethan moves around the island... different people have interpreted this in different ways, but I've always thought that this was A way of pointing to the dried-up river beds that he uses as paths, to get us to the idea that water was being diverted... just my interpretation...
ME: I haven't been back to the thread on characters, so I don't know if I saw the pre-edited or post-edited version, but it seemed to me that Poor's friend came to an understanding about the numbers and the timeline (but the content of that understanding was between the two of them, and rightly so!). I took cac's comment about rearranging the numbers (to open or define a portal) to be a little joke about her own "pet" theory, but maybe I misunderstood...
Message was edited by: chenmeina
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
lostrose:hi ME, I have a couple ideas that I'm sure all of you have discussed and hoping you can help me with. Does anyone think pushing the button is some sort of pressure release valve - relieving the energy that builds up in whatever they've tried to seal up at the hatch? And how about the rain in the dark territory - could it occur every 108 minutes when they push the button?
Rose, that's a good theory! I don't know if that's what's going on, but it's just as good as any theory about the button pushing that I've heard so far.
sawyerlost:I have posted this a few times in a few other threads and no one has been able to actually answer or give me a clear one. My question is how old did Locke say Adam and Eve are?
Locke never said how old Adam and Eve are - it was Jack who estimated, based on their clothes. Jack thought they looked 40-50 years old. Locke was the one who estimated the age of the "priest" in the tree.
chen: I took cac's comment about rearranging the numbers (to open or define a portal) to be a little joke about her own "pet" theory, but maybe I misunderstood...
Well, yes and no. The comment about re-arranging the numbers was indeed part of the clue - but was edited out. I heard this from another person as well who was able to read the thread before it was edited (even though I didn't see it first hand). However, cac was also commenting that re-arranging the numbers is what is involved in her portal theory, so she was liking that this was a clue to cracking the code. I doubt cac was joking though! LOL
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (549 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
ME, Just wondering, did you get a sense that the reference to rearranging the numbers had to do with the order of the numbers (like re-shuffling them), or re-combining them (as in making other numbers)? I'm so confused by these crytic half-clues and am just trying to get ready to work on the tailies' timeline tonight!
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Sneaker: I bet that's Goodwin and the two kids and 3 more. From Libby's reaction about the children, I get the impression they were only recently taken, and possibly taken together in one visit subsequent to the first 11.
I disagree... I think the kids were taken the first or 14th night... but luckily we won't have to wait long to find out, either way! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Loser buys coffee at Armymom's Friday (good thing her coffee's free src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>).
I think they cannot be taken the first night-- you have to allow a little time for the Tailies to develop an attachment to them....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
G Man:
Year "0" 2004 - Flight 815 crashes
"4" - 2000 - Desmond lands there?
"8" - 1996 - The nigerian drug plane?
"15" - 1989 - ? (Goodwin?)
"16" - 1988 - Danielle's team / the numbers are broadcast
"23" - 1981 - ? ... This is one year post Dharma "incident" however (Namaste!)
"42" - 1962 - Adam and Eve?
I really like the stuff that Back Gammon and Chibeargirl, etal are coming up with regarding Master Joop / Jupiter and this whole thing of Jupiter's occultations, where Jupiter is eclipsed by the moon interfering with Earth's magnetic field. What if the meteor is something that passed thru Jupiter's orbit and became magnetized. Now having crashed on the island, every 4,8,15,... years one of these occultations occurs allowing the island to become visible?
I have to admit, I was going crazy last night, thinking about paulpry and that he "got it" from looking at the timeline he made. It's got to be something simple, and we're just not seeing it.
But the more I thought about the numbers and how they relate to the timeline, I think we need to be counting from something forward, rather than counting from the crash backwards.
A said that the numbers are "immersed in the history of the island." If that's true, then the plane crash is just another event in the whole timeline of the island. There's nothing that tells me that it's more important than anything else that's happened there, so why would the connection to the numbers be dependent on the crash? I think the starting point of the timeline has to be something in the past, and the crash fits in with whatever pattern is there, but isn't the central date of the pattern. It's just one more piece of the puzzle.
That said, what do we know has happened on the island?
???? A long time ago: Meteor crashed, creating the crater (our current theory, presumed correct).
???? Hundred(s) of years ago: the Black Rock came to the island
1941-1945 WWII (if we think it's relevant)
1950-1965: Adam and Eve either died or were placed in the caves
1965: Hanso Foundation formed
1970: Dharma Initiative started
197?: "The Incident"
1980: Orientation film made
1988: - Sam Toomey, and maybe Lenny, hears the numbers broadcast long-range from the Pacific - Danielle's team of six scientists crash on the island - Danielle's team gets sick, she kills them (as far as we know), and changes the transmission of the numbers to her distress call. - Danielle has a daughter, Alex, who is taken from her by the others after the black smoke column was seen 5k inland on the island
19??: Nigerian drug plane crashes on the island
2001: Desmond crashes on the island
2004: Flight 815 crashes on the island
Patterns that fit the timeline:
Hanso formation (1965) to Orientation: 15 1965 to 1988: 23
If Adam and Eve were put there in 1962: 1962 to 1970: 8 1962 to 2004: 42
I don't know if this is leading anywhere. I'm not even sure if A was talking about a pre-crash timeline, or a post-crash timeline. I need to stop thinking about it for a while...
ping
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
But the more I thought about the numbers and how they relate to the timeline, I think we need to be counting from something forward, rather than counting from the crash backwards.
A said that the numbers are "immersed in the history of the island."
Good thinking ping, you beat me to that observation. Here is an interesting timeline I came up with.
1942 - WWII 1950 (or 1958) - Adam and Eve 1966 - Hanso Foundation begins (40th year leading up to there anniversary in 2006) 1972 - Dharma starts on the island (speculation but fits) 1980 - Orientation Film (incident?) 1988 - Numbers Transmission / Danielle Crashes 1996 - Beechcraft Crashes (speculation) 2004 - Oceanic Crashes
Notice these are all 8 years apart!
I can't seemto get Desond to fit, maybe the Shannon's age revelation proves that he is a liar, but I personally don't think that is the case. Hopefully this starts us on the right track.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
Okay, still trying to decipher the thread from last night. Paulpry said something like "I found the first one, and the second one..." What was he finding? Incidences of the numbers? Items hidden in the mural? Are there six things to find, that correspond to the numbers?
A has mentioned more than once that (paraphrase) "there is nothing stopping anyone from figuring it out, now that the hatch has been shown." I'm thinking that it has to do with the mural, but I might be way off. It could be the magnetic wall or the patched up passageway, who knows.
Okay, back to work for a while...
ping
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: luvndesperate (261 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 15, 2005
One, can you believe TPTB have now said in an interview it is highly unlikely we'll ever find out the meaning of the numbers! And two, (ADA CAN YOU HEAR ME) can someone please tell me that the next few weeks involve something OTHER than the tailies dying at the hands of the Others and Ana Lucia having shot Shannon by mistake. This is so boring yet seemingly imminent.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: avoidnwork (897 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 13, 2005
Yay Brax!
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you posting these threads where everyone can go back and read them.
If you run, I'll vote for you.
Cac - I go mailed you back. I had tornadoes last night so it took me a while to get back to you. It seems like the subject of my email may be a moot point now. I'm not sure.
Thanks - Avoidn (T-minus 30 minutes for me!)
Brax - I would not vote for you for president because that would take up too much of your time and I would miss your work for the LOST cause! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (395 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Lenny, there isn't a key for the questions, but if you look at my first post in this thread, it tells you which parts have the discussion for each episode's questions. When you go to each thread, you'll see a link to the original question post and the discussion usually fills the next several pages.
lucky: did you get a sense that the reference to rearranging the numbers had to do with the order of the numbers (like re-shuffling them), or re-combining them (as in making other numbers)?
Yes, that's exactly the impression I got. I also gleaned that there are more than two combinations to be found.
Blue: If we run with the rearranged numbers ideas, where does it get us?
It might give us dates or or locations. There was another hint a couple of months ago which I interpretted to mean that we were to put numbers mentioned consecutively together. I did a few and they were all dates of major scientific discoveries, which isn't surprising since they were all in the 1500s and 1600s.
Blue: how is it integral to the portals idea?
Very. By rearranging the numbers you can find latitudes and longitudes of several points on the Earth. They aren't just random places, though. They pinpoint locations on the flight path, northern Canada, Nigeria, the African coast and other places that don't seem to be significant at this time. I think the numbers provide the addresses of the portals. The specifics of this can be found in one of those threads which now reside on Brax' site. It might be in Part 4 or 5.
Sneaker, I agree that the Talies were probably attacked very recently. The condition of Goodwin's body suggested he hadn't been dead long. The most recent attack most likely coincided with Shannon first hearing the whispers, which would have been the night the raft sank.
Rose: Does anyone think pushing the button is some sort of pressure release valve - relieving the energy that builds up in whatever they've tried to seal up at the hatch?
Yes, that's exactly what I think it does.
Rose: And how about the rain in the dark territory - could it occur every 108 minutes when they push the button?
I don't think it happens with that much regularity. This must have to do with the meteorology station.
Sawyerlost: Someone was asking about Abandoned and the "spiritual" aspect of the show, in addition to some of the things mentioned, remeber when Locke was swaddling the baby and compared to the Bible of Jesus swaddled in the manger. Is this suppose to mean something in reference to Aaron? I mean Aaron is a Bible name and Claire named him in Exoudus (?) so there are another 2 Bible reference. I know the show has ALOT of religious aspects, but I am wondering if there is something special about Baby Aaron.
Since we know they are all Special, I suspect that Aaron is Extra Special. I just hope he doesn't have to sacrifice himself to save his people.
Beau: 1942 - WWII
You Americans. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> The war started in 1939.
Avoidn, I go mailed you back too. How bad was were the tornadoes? I hope it was only your internet access that was blown away.
ME: p.s. I've also been busy trying to make Christmas gifts. Lots to do in the next couple months!
Me too! Between crafts and work and other stuff, I'm afraid I haven't been around much lately.
Message was edited by: cac120 because I forgot to comment about Aaron.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
cac- Sledge's timeline needs work. A few interesting points:
- A-L kills Goodwin Day 27, the same day Charlie Shoots Ethan.
- Near the end of the first scenes (before the first commercial break I think) they show the Tailie survivors on the beach (first day) and one guy is crawling right to left and leaving a trail that seems to make an angle in the sand. That angle looks to me like 108 degrees (more to the point, one corner of a regular pentagon).
- Looks like there were no additional abductions after the Rafties arrive. It appears the unaccounted for 6 persons died from injuries sustained in the crash. Although, hard to judge from graves since some might be the dead others.
- I owe ME a cup o' java - the kids were taken on the second abduction - which was NOT 2 weeks after the first, but only day 12!
- Eko quiet for 40 days? Quite biblical-- seems Eko is a Christian? I bet he was counting off the 40 days on that stick of his.
- I wonder if A-L told anyone about Goodwin. Did anyone guess?
- I saw no evidence of the sudden tide coming in (which day was that for the fusies?). And I heard no shots or explosions except for Shannon's demise....
- I heard no whispering before any of their attacks. It seemed the first time the Tailies heard whispering was after Cindy dissappeared.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: SDMRSM (4 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
I think the numbers are a way to indicate where the Dharma science centers are on the island. We have seen two of them now. Ethan walking around"--I'm not sure what this means exactly, but I am sure there must be some kind of tunnel system to connect the stations.
by: noelle91176 (317 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
- Eko quiet for 40 days? Quite biblical-- seems Eko is a Christian? I bet he was counting off the 40 days on that stick of his.
I lurk a lot, but I wanted to reply to this one. I kept thinking of Moses from the first few minutes of this epi. So much about Echo points to this connection. I think he might be an other. First off, Moses was an Israelite raised as an Egyptian as the Pharoah's son. His destiny was ultimately to free his people from slavery to Egypt. The writers I believe said something about Echo's stick being an ongoing clue. Well the shepherd's staff is symbolic of Moses. It was used in performing the miracles that eventually caused the Pharoah to free his people. Moses's vocation began, when although he was known to be an Egyptian he killed an Egyptian soldier or something who was abusing an Israelite slave. This caused chaos, and he left the palace and began a family as an "average" man, not a prince. He became a shepherd. Eventually he spoke to God when God appeared to him and so and so on. God told him to pick up his stick and go set his people free. The plagues came, etc. and we all know how the story ends. Moses had 3 40 day periods each on Mt. Sinai. He spent 40 days to receive the 10 commandments, 40 days praying to pacify God's anger for the idolotry of the Golden calf by the Jews, and 40 days to receive the other Laws and gain the forgiveness for Israel with God. The israelites also spent 40 years wandering the desert before getting to the promised land.
I think the fact that he offered to pray for Rose, the rescue planes, carries a "staff," stopped talking for 40 days (maybe even fasted as he didn't take the chicken offered by Libby) and took the bible in the arrow hatch points rather obviously to a Moses connection.
Is it so far fetched to think that Mr. Echo might be another Moses? He might have been born of the real world, but been living as an other? Is his loyalty returning to the real world survivors? Just as Moses felt the inevitable draw to his people? Could he be the one destined to free his people? Could his killing the Others, be similar to Moses killing the Egyptian guard who was hurting his people? Mr. Echo did say that "Goodwin was a good man." Interesting to me. Ok, I guess I;ll go back to the dark corner over there and keep lurking. Pardon if I butted in.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lost_in_NYC (223 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Dec 14, 2004
I lurk a lot, but I wanted to reply to this one. I kept thinking of Moses from the first few minutes of this epi. So much about Echo points to this connection. I think he might be an other. First off, Moses was an Israelite raised as an Egyptian as the Pharoah's son. His destiny was ultimately to free his people from slavery to Egypt. The writers I believe said something about Echo's stick being an ongoing clue. Well the shepherd's staff is symbolic of Moses. It was used in performing the miracles that eventually caused the Pharoah to free his people. Moses's vocation began, when although he was known to be an Egyptian he killed an Egyptian soldier or something who was abusing an Israelite slave. This caused chaos, and he left the palace and began a family as an "average" man, not a prince. He became a shepherd. Eventually he spoke to God when God appeared to him and so and so on. God told him to pick up his stick and go set his people free. The plagues came, etc. and we all know how the story ends. Moses had 3 40 day periods each on Mt. Sinai. He spent 40 days to receive the 10 commandments, 40 days praying to pacify God's anger for the idolotry of the Golden calf by the Jews, and 40 days to receive the other Laws and gain the forgiveness for Israel with God. The israelites also spent 40 years wandering the desert before getting to the promised land.
I think the fact that he offered to pray for Rose, the rescue planes, carries a "staff," stopped talking for 40 days (maybe even fasted as he didn't take the chicken offered by Libby) and took the bible in the arrow hatch points rather obviously to a Moses connection.
Is it so far fetched to think that Mr. Echo might be another Moses? He might have been born of the real world, but been living as an other? Is his loyalty returning to the real world survivors? Just as Moses felt the inevitable draw to his people? Could he be the one destined to free his people? Could his killing the Others, be similar to Moses killing the Egyptian guard who was hurting his people? Mr. Echo did say that "Goodwin was a good man." Interesting to me. Ok, I guess I;ll go back to the dark corner over there and keep lurking. Pardon if I butted in.
Nice thought Noelle
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (550 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
I lurk a lot, but I wanted to reply to this one. I kept thinking of Moses from the first few minutes of this epi. So much about Echo points to this connection.
Very sound theory, if you ask me. Don't go back into the corner, Noelle!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sointuit (236 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 04, 2005
...Mr. Echo did say that "Goodwin was a good man." Interesting to me. Ok, I guess I;ll go back to the dark corner over there and keep lurking. Pardon if I butted in.
Thanks for lesson src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
How would you explain the nicely fitting suit he wore?
Never said good man...Jin said "Odduh?" and Eko nodded (per transcripts, not rewatched).
by: noelle91176 (317 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
Thanks for lesson src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
How would you explain the nicely fitting suit he wore?
Never said good man...Jin said "Odduh?" and Eko nodded (per transcripts, not rewatched).
That explains why I lurk a lot, I certainly can't devise a theory without an assortment of giant loopholes. I was quoting someone from another thread, and shoulda checked the transcript, I thought he said goodman about goodwin.
he may not be an Other, I can't say what an Other actually is has been established by any definative means. Desmond might be an Other for all we know. People that are in the real world might be Others working with the initiative. Or not. In my warped brain, Ecko might even have been on the plane in his snazzy suit and still have been an other.
i wasn't clear. To me the more important correlation to Moses would be setting his people free. He is the one guiding them through the jungle and it is obvious he is a leader of sorts. Locke always brings up the spiritual and this just adds fuel to the fire. Could be the yin and yang of spirituality. I can't wait to see Locke meet Ecko.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
What did you all make of AL's hesitation in answering Goodwin when he asked her if she had children. I am wondering what the backstory there is.
The first thing I thought was she cannot have children (maybe injured in the war, or in the line of duty?). There is definitely some sad history for A-L & Children.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: noelle91176 (317 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
I thought of her giving a child up for adoption (thanks to that glaringly repetitive theme) or maybe a child that died. To me, she looked guilty.
Her being infertile though would tie in nicely with the list of people they were taking. It would make sense to want someone fertile. Maybe that's why she wasn't on the list.
and on another note, where the heck did that chicken come from??? lol
Message was edited by: noelle91176
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: noelle91176 (317 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
there was so many interesting details in this epi. There is a lot to think about. The glass eye, the chicken, nathan, goodwin, the bible in the hatch, the army knife. btw, cindy specifically went out of her way to point out that nathan was not on the plane, yet she is good with faces. Shouldn't she have noticed that Goodwin wasn't on the plane??? And do the writers hate Canada or something?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: SOShelpReturns (327 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 30, 2005
Thank goodness for this thread. I am going crazy with the .. or what appears to me to be the lack of topics other than this thread!
Yeah Brax! Now I will read this weekend ALL of the past information and be ready to contribute without repeating! Yeah, Yeah, Yeah! Brax, Brax, he's our faq man, if he cant answer it no one can!
Plato: thank you once again for coming in here and sharing with us.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lostinlust (88 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 15, 2005
Yippeee!!! Thanks for the questions!!! Now I can go to sleep and dream of the answers!! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: frenchphilos (35 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 11, 2005
SO has anyone read "good country people"? It is a short story by one genius flannery o connor. Anyways. There is a bible salesman who goes door to door and he tricks one girl into giving him a glass eye, he tricks another into giving a prosthetic limb. This has nothing to do with anything but I thought it was funny that my mind went directly to this.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: meredg (1922 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 01, 2005
Much thanks, Plato. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> Just curious, does she ever lose a battle she chooses to fight? src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: frenchphilos (35 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 11, 2005
So, this episode was fantastic, Nathan and Ethan are from the same group maybe the others. The Whisperers are some sort of kid group that runs around and learns how to walk without footsteps. Goodwin is part of this whisperer group "they are better off now [kids]" however, nathan and ethan were bad. Could the army knife be Goodwin's? and he is some sort of leader with the kids. I must say Me and some others knew immediately that the whisperers were kids;(props to y'all) and that they had grouped together in some sort of weird way. Goodwin also states something about the list, and that nathan wasn't on the list. Are the survivors the ones that are supposed to survive the others who were not on the list have no business being alive.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
Well, since there probably aren't many still up (Pacific time stinks!), I'll take first crack at the questions:
1. Where is Emma's mother? Waiting for the two kids in Los Angeles
2. Where did Libby go skiing? Vermont, I didn't catch the name of the resort
3. What does Goodwin say he is in? The Peace Corps
4. What does Eko tell Bernard he will do for Bernard's wife and the search planes? Pray for them
5. How many do the Others target the first night? Three
6. What three people are missing the next morning? Not sure, but Goodwin said later that they were all strong
7. Who kills the chicken and how? Goodwin? With his hands?
8. How long does Libby say Eko has been silent when she offers him the chicken? A week
9. What did Ana find on the girl she killed? An Army pocket knife
10. Could Eko find a trail when he searched for the children? *guesses no*, I don't remember that
11. What does Ana say, exactly, is on the list? "Nine of us"--their names, what they look like, what they were wearing
12. Why does Nathan say they should stop walking inland? Because they were at a place with a stream and a lot of fruit around, and a rock wall to their back.
13. Where is Nathan from? Canada (Blame Canada!...)
14. Why was Nathan in Australia? For a company retreat
15. Why does he say he wasn't apparent on the plane? Because he was in the lav
16. How does Goodwin kill Nathan? By twisting his neck
17. On what day do they find the bunker? Some time after 42 or so
18. Look at the area around the bunker. I'll have to watch it again, but my first thought is that it looked somewhat like the fusies' door, with vines hanging down around it
19. What exactly is in the chest in the bunker, and in the center of the new symbol? Blankets (I think), a Bible, a glass eye, and a radio. The new symbol has an arrow in the middle of it.
20. Why does Goodwin say the first 4 were targeted? Because they were strong, and a threat to "them"
21. What is on the knife, and how old does Ana think it is? A tank stamp, she thinks it's about 20 years old.
22. Why wasn't Nathan on the list, according to Goodwin? He wasn't a good person
23. Goodwin says the kids are fine and what? They're better off now
I'll go poke around in some other threads, and come back to see if anyone's still awake!
ping
Message was edited by: what_went_ping
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Hey Ping, just a few corrections:
1. Where is Emma's mother? Waiting for the two kids in Los Angeles
2. Where did Libby go skiing? Vermont, I didn't catch the name of the resort
3. What does Goodwin say he is in? The Peace Corps
4. What does Eko tell Bernard he will do for Bernard's wife and the search planes? Pray for them
5. How many do the Others target the first night? Three Four actually Eko killed the ones trying to take him.
6. What three people are missing the next morning? Not sure, but Goodwin said later that they were all strong
7. Who kills the chicken and how? Goodwin? With his hands? Goodwin breaks it's neck, I knew right then
8. How long does Libby say Eko has been silent when she offers him the chicken? A week
9. What did Ana find on the girl she killed? An Army pocket knife And a list of names
10. Could Eko find a trail when he searched for the children? *guesses no*, I don't remember that
11. What does Ana say, exactly, is on the list? "Nine of us"--their names, what they look like, what they were wearing
12. Why does Nathan say they should stop walking inland? Because they were at a place with a stream and a lot of fruit around, and a rock wall to their back.
13. Where is Nathan from? Canada (Blame Canada!...)
14. Why was Nathan in Australia? For a company retreat
15. Why does he say he wasn't apparent on the plane? Because he was in the lav
16. How does Goodwin kill Nathan? By twisting his neck
17. On what day do they find the bunker? Some time after 42 or so It was before that because the radio transmission was on day 41, same day Boone died
18. Look at the area around the bunker. I'll have to watch it again, but my first thought is that it looked somewhat like the fusies' door, with vines hanging down around it
19. What exactly is in the chest in the bunker, and in the center of the new symbol? Blankets (I think), a Bible, a glass eye, and a radio Arrow Symbol
20. Why does Goodwin say the first 4 were targeted? Because they were strong, and a threat to "them"
21. What is on the knife, and how old does Ana think it is? A tank stamp, she thinks it's about 20 years old. US ARMY was stamped on the tang
22. Why wasn't Nathan on the list, according to Goodwin? He wasn't a good person
23. Goodwin says the kids are fine and what? They're better off now
Good work Ping, I'm going to rewatch the area around the bunker before I go to bed also.
by: usckit (13 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 22, 2005
What I got from A is that it is significant that the Orientation video has been edited and sections removed from the original. Meaning that "don't use the computer for anything" is a fragment of a sentence and not a complete sentence. Anything could have come after "anything".
i read in some other thread.. that there was a piece of film that fell otu of that bible when the opened up the crate in the bunker.. hmmmm
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (395 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Thanks again Plato and A.
1. Where is Emma's mother?
The mother is in Los Angeles and Emma didn't ask about her father or any other adult that was accompanying them. Since children don't often fly alone, I'll guess that they were being shuttled between their parents' homes. They might have step parents too, which would put them in the raised by another category.
2. Where did Libby go skiing?
Stowe, VT. The only thing I know about Stowe is that the Von Trapps opened a ski lodge there after they climbed every mountain.
3. What does Goodwin say he is in?
The Peace Corps. Poor gave us some insight in another thread: the Peace Corps reference was a tip of the hat at someone involved with the show, but Goodwin? Let's just say he was the opposite of that (wink).
Goodwin was (is?) military.
4. What does Eko tell Bernard he will do for Bernard's wife and the search planes?
He'll pray for them. He later takes the Bible and stays silent for 40 days.
5. How many do the Others target the first night?
Three, but they tried to take Eko as well, which would make it four.
6. What three people are missing the next morning?
I think they were the curley haired man, the German and someone else who was described by his hair colour. I think they were all men.
7. Who kills the chicken and how?
Goodwin wrings its neck. He looked like he'd done it before. And where did the chicken come from? Is it an escapee from the zoology station or did someone in the the utopian social one set her free?
8. How long does Libby say Eko has been silent when she offers him the chicken?
A week; it's Day 7.
Day 7 is when Joanna drowned and Jack's vision of Christian led him to the caves and the water.
9. What did Ana find on the girl she killed?
A list of the 9 who were taken that night.
10. Could Eko find a trail when he searched for the children?
No. They must have been taken into the trees, onto a boat or below ground very quickly. Or else they were carried off by strong people.
11. What does Ana say, exactly, is on the list?
Names and what they're wearing.
12. Why does Nathan say they should stop walking inland?
They have water, fruit and a rock wall at their backs. There seem to be a lot of rock walls on the island. They must be against the edge of one of the plateaux. Earlier we were told that They live where the fruit is.
13. Where is Nathan from?
Canada, just like Ethan and maybe Kate. And Hurley's shoe factory. And the polar bears.
14. Why was Nathan in Australia?
For a company retreat. Something similar was said about Scott/Steve at his funeral. Maybe their companies are Hanso subsidiaries.
15. Why does he say he wasn't apparent on the plane?
He was in the lavatory. This was also his excuse for being missing for two hours on the island. Hurley also had intestinal problems, but they didn't begin until he arrived on the island.
16. How does Goodwin kill Nathan?
Wrings his neck, just like the chicken. We don't know what he did with the body.
17. On what day do they find the bunker?
Day 27. This is the day after Sawyer heard the whispers and the same day that Ethan was killed. Ethan and Goodwin were killed the same day.
18. Look at the area around the bunker.
There seemed to be a little clearing where they were sitting. I need to take another look.
19. What exactly is in the chest in the bunker, and in the center of the new symbol?
A Bible, glass eye, radio and blankets. This is the Arrow station.
20. Why does Goodwin say the first 4 were targeted?
Goodwin said they were taken because they were strong, but we don't know if their strength is required by the Others for manual labour or whether they just wanted to weaken the Tailies before coming for the people they really wanted.
21. What is on the knife, and how old does Ana think it is?
US Army and 20 years, which means there was a military presence on the island about 20 years ago. Goodwin might have come to the island at that time.
22. Why wasn't Nathan on the list, according to Goodwin?
Nathan wasn't a good person. They only want good people, which explains why the Fusies' assortment of criminals haven't been taken.
23. Goodwin says the kids are fine and what?
In a better place, which is often a euphemism for Heaven, although we have seen that the kids are still alive.
We still haven't accounted for all the missing children yet. There's still the baby that Jack had the diapers for and the children of the man with the video membership.
by: gingerpeachypie (53 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
Some random observations:
The sounds of the tail crashing (metal on metal, cranky gear) sound similar to the monster.
Cindy tells them same thing as pilot, i.e. off course, but what is the two hour window all about? I was under the impression that the pilot turning back and the crash were closer together - more immediate.
Libby - 1 year of medical school - like Desmond.
Goodwin walked out of the jungle to crash like Jack.
Goodwin wanted signal fire "so they can find us".
Eco - will pray for Rose - did she hear him?
Eco seems very surprised by his physical strength - it's almost super-human and vicious beyond his understanding or normal demeanor.
Donald's death mirrors the Marshal's death.
On 12th day, AL hears a "pig" in jungle? Or was it something else?
Also, that night, right before the abduction when they're all asleep, you can hear what might be a scream. Is this when Claire is waking from her dreams screaming? Afterward, Goodwin pronounces "it's time to let the signal fire go out."
On day 15 - "we've been walking 3 days"? Seems like far away?
On 17th day - catching rabbits - similar to Danielle catching Sayid. Also AL digs hole similar to Danielle's "den". Wow, I just thought of a reference to Daniel and the Lion's Den.
On day 23, AL says something about "we not savages". I think Jack or Kate say something about "we're not savages, yet" at some point around torturing Sayid.
On day 24, AL wakes to Goodwin watching her - creepy!
On day 27, find storage - I thought I saw another book pulled out of the trunk - possibly a diary? Glass eye - pirates/Black Rock reference? Is the radio the same as the transceiver? How did it get in the hatch? What plane/craft did it come from?
The field where Ana kills Goodwin looks similar to the golf course field, but according to the map, it's probably the opposite side of the hill? Also, Goodwin places the radio down just like the pilot did in the cockpit - very deliberate. (Loved the car in the background!)
Day 41 they hear a voice on the transceiver. I'm not convinced it's Boone. Everyone seems to be excited to have this connection confirmed, but it didn't sound like Boone. I didn't replay the season one scene, but the days don't match up. If the Sledgeweb's timeline is correct, then Boone is already dead on the Tailies day 41. AL could be right that it's just the Other's trying to find the Tailies.
Are we confident that the Losties timeline on Sledgeweb's site is correct? I seem to remember A saying something about a few things being off, but never investigated.
When they killed the chicken I thought "have a cluckety cluck cluck day"!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Jerseylostfan (1078 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 08, 2005
Good Morning Eppy people. Thank you Plato!
The guy's hair was blonde. That's all I have to offer, lol.
Did anyone catch the deleted scene on GMA? The two children found a crate full of boomerangs on the beach. It looks to be early on. Another game? Something else?
You guys are amazing!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
On day 23, AL says something about "we not savages". I think Jack or Kate say something about "we're not savages, yet" at some point around torturing Sayid.
Actullay Goodwin says "We are not savages, Ana" when he says that she is keeping Nathan in the pit. I thought this was kinda ironic, or maybe a big clue. He also says he's in the Peace Corp, hmmmm. He insists that the beach raids or not "attacks" and that the children are "better off". Also, he never attacks Ana, she is the one who starts the fight. Big Clues or BIG LIAR! Like House would say, "Bad news, your pants are on fire."
One more thing I noticed, on the first night when the attacks occur, Ana is sleeping right between Goodwin and Nathan. Is she keeping her eye on them or vice versa?
Also, no security system, no whispers, no polar bears, and no hearing dynamite explosions on the Tailies side of the island. Is it because the Other's live there or do the Other's live there because all these things are missing?
by: pssrailguy (409 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
There were some clues from the writers to look out for Ecko's stick...I am just wondering, does anyone know what kind of tree he took it from. The ymake a point to show him breaking a branch off of a tree or shrub. COuld the type of wood be important?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Jerseylostfan (1078 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 08, 2005
Ginger - My take on Eko was that the attack brought back bad memories for him. It's been hinted thAt Eko's been through worse things than landing on this island. It reminded me of Sayid after he tortured Sawyer.
Bump to say hi to Miss A!
Message was edited by: Jerseylostfan
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
There were some clues from the writers to look out for Ecko's stick...I am just wondering, does anyone know what kind of tree he took it from. The ymake a point to show him breaking a branch off of a tree or shrub. COuld the type of wood be important?
I thought the samething. I also was wondering what he carved on the stick. It was shown to us he is a religious man, so maybe his carving maybe a prayer of protection of somekind.
Ginger: On day 24, AL wakes to Goodwin watching her - creepy! I thought the samething. Was he watching her to see of she tried to do something.
You guys, I started a thread comparing Ethan and Goodwin. I think this is something that you all could really help with and maybe we can learn some more about the others. Let me know if you want me to maybe paster my thoughts here.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Let me know if you want me to maybe paster my thoughts here.
I would post them here, this thread is great and includes everything else anyway, so why not?
I'm thinking that maybe the "kids" and the "Others" (grown ups) are in some kind of war so to speak. When he said that they're better off now maybe he means that they are safe.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Comparison between Ethan and Goodwin:
Now, there have been alot of discussions saying there maybe toe groups of others. Maybe if we compare Ethan and Goodwin, we can get a better idea IF there is and how they work.
Ethan was able to conceal his identity because of where the fuselage landed...on the beach. This made it easy for him to come in and belnd in with the chaos.
The chaos on the tailies side was with trying to pull everyone out of the water. Everyone that survived or didn't was in the water and being pushed to land by the tide.
Ethan, he liked to blend in. Got food, stuck to himself, and for the most part did not participate in any of te huting parties.
Goodwin, from the begging establishes himslef as one of the leaders. He starts a fire, he helps witht he capture of the chicken and kills it himself. Tells people what they should do.
Now, Ethan was very, very violent...but then again so was Goodwin. They way Ethan hung Charlie, shows what a cruel person he was and I think we can say then samething about Goddwin. He snapped Nathan's neck and acted like nothing every happen.
Now here is the intersting part I think, Ethan NEVER talked about where Claire was and whether she was Ok or not. Goodwin felt the need to maybe "mock" Ana and tease her with the information he gave her. Why did he do this?? I think because he really thought out of the two of them, he was the one to return to cmap and not her.
What else did you all notice? Who are these others? Why did they take some of the tailies, and not the some of the fuselagers? Why was this group targeted more than the other group?
by: sassafras__k (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
I waned to discuss something about last nights preview so SPOILER
It shows ana firing at Sayid in next weeks preview when he is coming toward her. Didn't they say that there was only one bullet in the gun? So if she shot shannon with her one bullet, how does she have another in the gun to shoot at Sayid?
I wish I had written down my first thoughts last night cuz im thinking how to write what I thought when Shannon showed up in front of them but I dont think it will come out right. Anyways, I could have sworn as Shannon appeared before them I heard a gunshot, or gunshot like sound, before she fully appeared. It looked like she was entering kinda out of thin air-like when she followed Walt she entered a worm hole(for lack of better word kinda like a time tunnel) and appeared suddenly before them. But the sound of the shot happened before she was fully there. And she was gone already when AL or somebody asked "What was that".
Im thinking the distance between them was greater than we thought cuz there was a very surprised look on Michaels and Jins face when they came out into clearing and found Sayid and Shannon on ground. Like maybe this was more than a minute or so since Shannon appeared to them. And they didn't even seem to know it was Shannon. Someone asked What was that and none of the Fusies said "wow that was Shannon" or anything but it looked like they were facing that way so should have seen. Ana seemed confused to.
Rereading this-- it definately isnt coming out like I intended. But Im sure if there is anything here worth looking at-- someone will. Maybe the timing or sequence of events is just in my head and noone else got any of these impressions. Just random thoughts anyways. this board can handle it as it is all speculation anyways.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sassafras__k (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
Some thoughts on Eko.
I believe he was military or something where he came from. The comment about "thats all I know" (maybe not exact) when he was looking out for Sawyer and not wanting to leave him behind and again when they he said "there is something I have to do" and then he goes into water and fishes out the last of the dead bodies reminded me of the Marines motto "leave no man behind." I think Eko has been trained that you always take care of the weakest among you. No one gets left behind etc. Your only as strong as your weakest link. I think he is definately one of the best characters on the show now. the scene with him holding Ana when she was crying was very emotional. He is a real man. Sensitive and tough. What a giant man he is too. He can hold me while I cry anytime. Strange when he was on OZ he was a very scary character and I wouldn't have wanted to meet him in daylight let alone in a dark alley but now in this character he is attractive. Good actor that's for sure.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: PrudentPenelope (17 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 12, 2005
Some thoughts on Eko.
I believe he was military or something where he came from. The comment about "thats all I know" (maybe not exact) when he was looking out for Sawyer and not wanting to leave him behind and again when they he said "there is something I have to do" and then he goes into water and fishes out the last of the dead bodies reminded me of the Marines motto "leave no man behind." I think Eko has been trained that you always take care of the weakest among you. No one gets left behind etc. Your only as strong as your weakest link. I think he is definately one of the best characters on the show now. the scene with him holding Ana when she was crying was very emotional. He is a real man. Sensitive and tough. What a giant man he is too. He can hold me while I cry anytime. Strange when he was on OZ he was a very scary character and I wouldn't have wanted to meet him in daylight let alone in a dark alley but now in this character he is attractive. Good actor that's for sure.
Hi sassafras, my take on it went back to our original discussions of his "real" name. I think the "minister" line of thought was more accurate. Seemed to me with the "I'll pray", the taking care to retrieve and bury the bodies, the "ministering" to Ana Lucia as she wept, the 40 days of silence as penance for taking lives of Others, the reverence for the Bible.... all signs he's definitely a man of God.
...Not that he couldn't be a warrior too!...
Another poster in another thread mentioned that he seemed awed at his own strength and ability to fight, like Locke amazed at his ability to walk after the crash. I think that's an excellent point.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: dad_of_4_ (1873 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
23. Goodwin says the kids are fine and what?
In a better place, which is often a euphemism for Heaven, although we have seen that the kids are still alive.
We still haven't accounted for all the missing children yet. There's still the baby that Jack had the diapers for and the children of the man with the video membership.
and the kid that owned the lunchbox that shannon was pouring water into for Vincent....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
I also noticed about Eko, that we didn't see him tell the tailies his name, and they never appeared to ask, as far as we saw. I may be wrong, but I don't think we saw any of them address him by name, and thus didn't hear Ana call him "Echo" until after he introduces himself to Michael et al. (in a previous episode).
It may be just because for the majority of the time we saw last night, he wasn't talking at all, but I thought that was interesting. I was really thinking that we might find out his real name last night.
ping
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: blissfullylost (91 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
What a great episode!
Nathan and Ethan are from the same group maybe the others.
I took it at the end, that Nathan ended up being wrongly accused? Didn't everyone else? When Goodwin releases him, he tells him he couldn't let Anna start cutting off his fingers and him still have him insisting he was on the plane.
Were the "others" that were killed by the tailies children? I couldn't really tell, they did look young?
So Claire was the only "good" one of the Losties? I think this all fits in with the Utopian Society.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: msgolfer822 (1 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 07, 2005
He's stayed because he wants Ana. (That creepy scene where he's watching her wake up.)
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but is it possible that A-L is pregnant, thus her hesitancy and awkwardness when answering the question about whether or not she has children. Could that be why Goodwin wanted to hang around. Waiting for another child?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but is it possible that A-L is pregnant, thus her hesitancy and awkwardness when answering the question about whether or not she has children. Could that be why Goodwin wanted to hang around. Waiting for another child?
That's a good thought. She definitely has some sort of issue with having children, I'd say. I hadn't thought about her maybe being pregnant. I had been thinking that either:
- she had a child (or younger sibling that she felt responsible for) previously who had died or was kidnapped - she had tried to have children but was unable to - she had a baby whom she gave up for adoption
Now we can add to that the possibility that she's pregnant. That would be another interesting parallel with the fusies.
by: LeighB04 (1107 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 24, 2005
I would doubt the writers of Lost know this, but in Africa, there is a concept called "ubuntu"... it means humanity for others. It also means who I am is a result of our common humanity. Granted, it's more a South African term, but in African tradition, the community is above the individual. The common bond is more important than one's own survival.
Mr Ecko is a very typical African: strong, proud, quiet, unassuming, empathetic, intuitive.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but is it possible that A-L is pregnant, thus her hesitancy and awkwardness when answering the question about whether or not she has children. Could that be why Goodwin wanted to hang around. Waiting for another child?
Good thought, it's definately a possibility. I was thinking he stayed around because he took a liking to her, maybe he thought he could "convert" her. His comments about the kids being better off maybe was his way of trying to convince her to join them.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
She definitely has some sort of issue with having children, I'd say.
Maybe it's just me but I didn't take it as she had children issues but from her character it seemed more of a pride issue then anything, she said that she told that kid she would see her parents and now that was taken away from her.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: dad_of_4_ (1873 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
OK - looking at Ecko and the religious...Saw Noelle's comparison to Moses but was thinking that Ecko was more alinged with Elijah as Elijah had a self imposed 40 days of silence and isolation....
He hikes into the desert sustained for 40 days and nights, on bread and water, until he reaches a mountain where he hides in a cave. He's had enough ? enough walking, enough trouble.
When God asks what he thinks he's doing in that cave, Elijah answers, I've had it. Life's been unpleasant. Death's stalking me. Nobody likes me, everybody hates me.
Then God says, You get out of that cave now! Elijah doesn't budge ? not for a wind, not for an earthquake, not for a fire. All those things may have been much too much like what he was already feeling inside. He wants peace, so he finally budges for silence.
When our lives are filled with roars and thunders in the scary wilderness, it's peace and silence we might crave. Perhaps God will grant us the peace we desire.
Again, Elijah complains, and God says, Yes, it's harsh, but I'm with you and I have a job for you. Your life has meaning. You are needed.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sassafras__k (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 08, 2005
Hi sassafras, my take on it went back to our original discussions of his "real" name. I think the "minister" line of thought was more accurate. Seemed to me with the "I'll pray", the taking care to retrieve and bury the bodies, the "ministering" to Ana Lucia as she wept, the 40 days of silence as penance for taking lives of Others, the reverence for the Bible.... all signs he's definitely a man of God.
...Not that he couldn't be a warrior too!...
Another poster in another thread mentioned that he seemed awed at his own strength and ability to fight, like Locke amazed at his ability to walk after the crash. I think that's an excellent point.
Thats a great thought. Definately a possibility. He would react the same in both instances.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: luvndesperate (261 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 15, 2005
Am I the only one getting bored with the show. It's going exactly as predicted without any shocking twists or turns. I actually changed the channel for awhile last night to check out Criminal Minds--first time I've done that since Lost premiered.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: samq79 (26 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Am I the only one getting bored with the show. It's going exactly as predicted without any shocking twists or turns. I actually changed the channel for awhile last night to check out Criminal Minds--first time I've done that since Lost premiered.
YES...you are...now go sit in the corner and hang your head in shame.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Am I the only one getting bored with the show. It's going exactly as predicted without any shocking twists or turns. I actually changed the channel for awhile last night to check out Criminal Minds--first time I've done that since Lost premiered.
Sounds like a friend of mine, they want so much action and they fail to realize this isn't a 2 hour movie and there is a plot to develop that takes a bit of patience.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: luvndesperate (261 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 15, 2005
It's not the lack of action, I swear, and I'm not giving up. It's just that this year seems predictable compared to last year. I want a big surprise. I love the character development (I'm very curious about Kate's original crime). I guess I'm also a little put off because they made such a big deal of the hatch and now they don't even have like 2 seconds showing the urgency of pressing the button.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
It's not the lack of action, I swear, and I'm not giving up. It's just that this year seems predictable compared to last year. I want a big surprise. I love the character development (I'm very curious about Kate's original crime). I guess I'm also a little put off because they made such a big deal of the hatch and now they don't even have like 2 seconds showing the urgency of pressing the button.
See I knew the action part would slow a bit, I actually like the character development, and I don't want to see the hatch all the time. I think they do a good job in keeping it moving so to speak, back and forth, here and there and they touch on everything and it all comes together. I like that about the show, the mystery portion and the set up is what I like.
It's all opinion really, just stick in there I'm sure they'll cycle through what you want to see src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: DrAlvarHanso (4 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 17, 2005
If you don't believe that the island is "Floating" or has "Risen" from the ocean, then explain why a "Sunken" ship filled with "Dynamite" was found towards the center of the island.
This is the only explanation. But we haven't even seen the "Tip of the Iceburg" yet. Just wait!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: vimesfan (17 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 02, 2005
sassafras: I think Eko has been trained that you always take care of the weakest among you. No one gets left behind etc. Your only as strong as your weakest link.
I so agree. Look how he put the two kids into the hands of one of the women (don't remember which one), saying, "I have something I need to do." Then he went back into the water to pull out another dead body. 1: He didn't go off and leave the children unattended, 2: He didn't go into details about what he was about to do, especially in front of the children, and 3: He cared about taking care of the dead body.
sassafras: I think he is definately one of the best characters on the show now. the scene with him holding Ana when she was crying was very emotional.
Again, I so agree. He showed strong personal integrity by choosing to be silent for 40 days and even refused the chicken, suggesting that some form of fasting was being observed, too. He wasn't being silent for show. He was doing it because of his own personal beliefs and choices. And 40 days is a long time to keep quiet.
He also seems to be very insightful. Note his remark to Anna, "You've waited 40 years to cry." He seems to be a good read of character, at least with Anna. I think of him as a gentle giant, someone who is fully comfortable with who he is (no issues, at least any more), someone who is "no longer lost". He and Locke together is going to be awesome.
If Eko turns out to be anything different, I'm going to be so disappointed.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: penumbra03 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 15, 2005
Here's one more 2 cents worth (gee, I'm up to 4 cents now). As to the comments about Mr. Eko and Moses. Moses did wander the desert with his people for 40 (yes, 40) years and during that time he was a shepherd (yes, Shepherd). Moses had a wooden staff with which he preformed miracles (at least 2 of them pertaining to water). So if we're told to be paying attention to the staff it might be really interesting. Coincidentally (not) Moses was sent away by his mother (via water) so he would be in "a better place" (thanks, Goodwin) to avoid the Pharaoh's edict that all Hebrew male children be killed. Moses had a brother named Aaron. This is also strange: Moses made a bronze serpent (which I believe is today's caeducus sp?). This serpent symbol was "lifted up" so that everyone could look upon it and be healed. It is referenced by Jesus saying something like".....the son of man be lifted up." Lift it up, brother. The religious symbolism (Hindu and Judeo-Christian) and allusions abound throughout Lost. I have no affliations myself and am interested in their use as a literary device and how it influences the characters and plot. Does anyone else see this?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Here's my thought on why the fusies didn't get "attacked" like the tailes: The security system protected them. Day One which ever Others were lurking around got taken out or scared off by the security system. Ethan must have got lucky and was able to get away from it. That's why he was working alone and no more Others came to help him take Claire. Also, I'm pretty sure we get confirmation now that the whispers and the Others are completely separate groups, and in fact, occupy separate parts of the island.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: gatorjf (12 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 20, 2005
Here's one more 2 cents worth (gee, I'm up to 4 cents now). As to the comments about Mr. Eko and Moses. Moses did wander the desert with his people for 40 (yes, 40) years and during that time he was a shepherd (yes, Shepherd). Moses had a wooden staff with which he preformed miracles (at least 2 of them pertaining to water). So if we're told to be paying attention to the staff it might be really interesting. Coincidentally (not) Moses was sent away by his mother (via water) so he would be in "a better place" (thanks, Goodwin) to avoid the Pharaoh's edict that all Hebrew male children be killed. Moses had a brother named Aaron. This is also strange: Moses made a bronze serpent (which I believe is today's caeducus sp?). This serpent symbol was "lifted up" so that everyone could look upon it and be healed. It is referenced by Jesus saying something like".....the son of man be lifted up." Lift it up, brother. The religious symbolism (Hindu and Judeo-Christian) and allusions abound throughout Lost. I have no affliations myself and am interested in their use as a literary device and how it influences the characters and plot. Does anyone else see this?
I thought of Moses also when I saw him with the staff. DIdnt he bring his people to the promised land????
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: penumbra03 (7 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 15, 2005
I thought of Moses also when I saw him with the staff. DIdnt he bring his people to the promised land????
Yes! But it wasn't easy. Also wanted to add that although Moses does lead his people to the Promised Land, he is not allowed to enter. (Hope that's not considered a spoiler. winky face thingy here)
Message was edited by: penumbra03
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Remember when A asked us what had changed about the Swan logo from the beginning of the Orientation video. It was noted that the Swan Logo went from a black swan on white background to a white swan on a black lbackground. The Arrow Logo is a black arrow on a white background. I noticed this before but never thought to post it. I'm not sure what it means exactly, maybe the Others (military?) were the incident and this arrow bunker was abandoned by Dharma. That's why they sealed the passages with concrete, built the armory, and switched the colors of the Logo in the Swan bunker in order for the active Dharma participants (Whispers?) to know which "side" they could trust.
by: sfgiantsfan1111 (18 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 28, 2005
Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces. If Nathan really was on the plane, as it seems like it is turning out, maybe this is evidence that Cindy (as the flight attendant) is part of what's happening on the island. Maybe she too, like Goodwin, did not want the others to start looking for the real infiltrater(s): meaning Goodwin and possibly herself. There is still the possibility that Nathan was sick and really was in the bathroom the majority of the flight, but I guess we won't know for sure yet.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
hi guys!
Missed half of last night's episode - for reasons beyond my control, and then got home to find that the reception on Ch. 8 had a terrible fuzzy white ghost image of some other show over top of it, so even the video was barely visible. Just downloaded the epi from iTunes and I'm about to watch it now. Came in to grab the questions and run - will be back later to catch up on reading, and to post.
Plato and A, thanks so much for the questions!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cleatusB (13 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 25, 2005
Seems kind of quiet today, so I thought I'd take a stab at answering the questions:
1. Where is Emma's mother? Waiting to pick them up in LA
2. Where did Libby go skiing? Stowe, VT. Maybe the place isn't as important as the word. Could the clue be "stow", as in stow away or hide?
3. What does Goodwin say he is in? The Peace Corps
4. What does Eko tell Bernard he will do for Bernard's wife and the search planes? Pray for them
5. How many do the Others target the first night? They target 4, but are unable to take Eko.
6. What three people are missing the next morning? They didn't know the names, only what they looked like. The only one I remember is "the German guy"
7. Who kills the chicken and how? Goodwin breaks it's neck. Sign of things to come.
8. How long does Libby say Eko has been silent when she offers him the chicken? One week
9. What did Ana find on the girl she killed? A knife and a list of the people to take.
10. Could Eko find a trail when he searched for the children? Don't remember his exact words, but no.
11. What does Ana say, exactly, is on the list? Names, what we look like, what we're wearing.
12. Why does Nathan say they should stop walking inland? They have water, food, and a rock wall at their back.
13. Where is Nathan from? Canada
14. Why was Nathan in Australia? On a company retreat
15. Why does he say he wasn't apparent on the plane? He says he was in the bathroom.
16. How does Goodwin kill Nathan? Snaps his neck, like chicken. Does this imply military training? Abnormal strength?
17. On what day do they find the bunker? Not sure, but I think day 27.
18. Look at the area around the bunker. It was quite overgrown, but the door seemed to be clear. Evidence of recent use?
19. What exactly is in the chest in the bunker, and in the center of the new symbol? blankets (or clothes), a Bible, a glass eye, a radio. The symbol contained an arrow pointing up.
20. Why does Goodwin say the first 4 were targeted? They were considered strong, a threat. To whom? The others? The tailies?
21. What is on the knife, and how old does Ana think it is? A U.S. Army symbol. She says they have not been used for 20 years.
22. Why wasn't Nathan on the list, according to Goodwin? He was not a good person.
23. Goodwin says the kids are fine and what? Not sure if the phrase was "better off" or "in a better place". A better place implies Heaven, but I don't think they are dead.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
5. How many do the Others target the first night? They target 4, but are unable to take Eko.
I was thinking that but how will we know how many they targeted? We only know how many they have, and Ecko could have halted their progress in maybe grabbing AL.....as well as himself and possibly others.
Message was edited by: bigboi10182000
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: raserx (11 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 27, 2005
is there a coincidence with when the security system was first seen (guys, where are we...) and the timing of others appearance (s
Good Point! Do you think the security system was protecting them so they could take the tailies?
If that is the case, why did it appear only to the fuselage people and why not to the tailies.
I'm not sure if it is another example of "one hand waving" as a distraction to aid the others, or if the security system is continuing to "quarantine" the island (hence 86ing moving objects like the pilot) and the others are able to avoid it as well as the fusies, Danielle, etc...
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
sfgiantsfan: Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces.
I remember i learned about "selective memory" in a physch class I took. Basically, people sometimes remember certain events that way they want to remeber (this can be said about the FB's to, but we will discuss this another day). In any event, the fact that Ana and the toher tailies were arguing whether or not Nathan was on the plane, may have affected Cindy's memory. See, she never questioned Goodwin because he was never questioned by the tailies. Since Nathan was being questioned, sh "remebers" that he was not on there, but how do we know for sure.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces. If Nathan really was on the plane, as it seems like it is turning out, maybe this is evidence that Cindy (as the flight attendant) is part of what's happening on the island. Maybe she too, like Goodwin, did not want the others to start looking for the real infiltrater(s): meaning Goodwin and possibly herself. There is still the possibility that Nathan was sick and really was in the bathroom the majority of the flight, but I guess we won't know for sure yet.
Good point-- I still suspect Cindy. Both she and Goodwin seem to contribute to the building of the signal fire (so "They" can find us-- oh, "They" sure did!!). And If she's so good with faces, how'd she miss Goodwin's?
My suspicions of Cindy just went up 5%.
A couple more notes:
1. Eko tells Michael "You don't know what they are capable of". I don't see anything in last night's episode that shows the Others doing anything worse than what Michael has see or heard (like Scott -or is it Steve, having all his bones broken, Kidnapping a pregnant woman, leaving Charlie hanging, beating up the "intense" & fit Jack).
2. Anyone notice A-L's forehead injury jump from her left side to the right, and then back to the left? Watch her when she's in the water. Could be for continuity of angle of view, or maybe it's like the mirror image in Desmond's hatch right after they blow the back door open: designed to enhance the apparent confusion and chaos of the scene. I guess she WAS hit in the head with a frickin' hardcase.... That is, she was not lying about THAT when she was playing the "Pit mole".
Regarding Poor's Question #18: "Look at the area around the bunker." The door does seem pretty easy to spot. I kind of got the impression this was a door in a garden wall. Also, there are several mountain peaks behind them as they approach the door.
And the Three missing people: Larry, Curley, & Mo!!!! Nyak, Nyak! Nyak! (Actually: Blonde Guy, Guy with Curley hair, and the German helping with the injured).
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Massed615 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Did anyone notice Eko's scars on his chest? or the tatoo on his shoulder both tribal. the scaring looks like something i saw on "goig tribal" on the discovery channel where they pinch and the slit the skin and do it as a form of body art/rite of passage. his tatoo looked like a sort of panther.....any thoughts. also many african countries were colonized by European nations including france
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Did anyone notice Eko's scars on his chest? or the tatoo on his shoulder both tribal. the scaring looks like something i saw on "goig tribal" on the discovery channel where they pinch and the slit the skin and do it as a form of body art/rite of passage. his tatoo looked like a sort of panther.....any thoughts. also many african countries were colonized by European nations including france
Did not get a real solid look at the tattoo-- someone suggested it was Dharam logo, but I think they were a little shark-happy. It's circular on his shoulder and he's got something on both. Definitely does not look like a typical inked tattoo (sorry, i never got one, so maybe someone with more knwoledge can comment on what kind Eko's was).
Speaking of Dharma logos, Did anyone comment on the Arrow hatch logo? I notice that this logo is also a "broken arrow" where the Dharma word goes through it. And the circle around the center picture was broken in three places. The Swan logo went right through the word and the inner circle was not broken.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Sneaker: 1. Eko tells Michael "You don't know what they are capable of". I don't see anything in last night's episode that shows the Others doing anything worse than what Michael has see or heard (like Scott -or is it Steve, having all his bones broken, Kidnapping a pregnant woman, leaving Charlie hanging, beating up the "intense" & fit Jack).
Think of it from Eko's point of view...he doesn't know what they have experienced. I mean, Ana doesnt even let them talk. Even though they agree that Michael, Jin and Sawyer were on the flight, they still treat them like prisoners.
Basically, I think he was saying it to protect him...maybe. That is what's great about this show. You see thing one way, and I see it another.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
That is what's great about this show. You see thing one way, and I see it another.
Maybe-- Eko may have simply been saying what he thought Michael needed to hear in order to get him back to the group where he'd be safer.
O' course, I value seeing things from different angles to drive consensus toward solving the LOST puzzle, not so much remaining on different sides of a particular interpretation. If there are multiple layers of interpretation (and there are a LOT), I hope enough folks can chime in so we catch all the important ones (the one's the writers added on purpose).
Gotta love this show! (Coitanly!)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
sfgiantsfan: Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces.
I remember i learned about "selective memory" in a physch class I took. Basically, people sometimes remember certain events that way they want to remeber (this can be said about the FB's to, but we will discuss this another day). In any event, the fact that Ana and the toher tailies were arguing whether or not Nathan was on the plane, may have affected Cindy's memory. See, she never questioned Goodwin because he was never questioned by the tailies. Since Nathan was being questioned, sh "remebers" that he was not on there, but how do we know for sure.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces. If Nathan really was on the plane, as it seems like it is turning out, maybe this is evidence that Cindy (as the flight attendant) is part of what's happening on the island. Maybe she too, like Goodwin, did not want the others to start looking for the real infiltrater(s): meaning Goodwin and possibly herself. There is still the possibility that Nathan was sick and really was in the bathroom the majority of the flight, but I guess we won't know for sure yet.
Good point-- I still suspect Cindy. Both she and Goodwin seem to contribute to the building of the signal fire (so "They" can find us-- oh, "They" sure did!!). And If she's so good with faces, how'd she miss Goodwin's?
My suspicions of Cindy just went up 5%.
A couple more notes:
1. Eko tells Michael "You don't know what they are capable of". I don't see anything in last night's episode that shows the Others doing anything worse than what Michael has see or heard (like Scott -or is it Steve, having all his bones broken, Kidnapping a pregnant woman, leaving Charlie hanging, beating up the "intense" & fit Jack).
2. Anyone notice A-L's forehead injury jump from her left side to the right, and then back to the left? Watch her when she's in the water. Could be for continuity of angle of view, or maybe it's like the mirror image in Desmond's hatch right after they blow the back door open: designed to enhance the apparent confusion and chaos of the scene. I guess she WAS hit in the head with a frickin' hardcase.... That is, she was not lying about THAT when she was playing the "Pit mole".
Regarding Poor's Question #18: "Look at the area around the bunker." The door does seem pretty easy to spot. I kind of got the impression this was a door in a garden wall. Also, there are several mountain peaks behind them as they approach the door.
And the Three missing people: Larry, Curley, & Mo!!!! Nyak, Nyak! Nyak! (Actually: Blonde Guy, Guy with Curley hair, and the German helping with the injured).
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Massed615 (14 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Did anyone notice Eko's scars on his chest? or the tatoo on his shoulder both tribal. the scaring looks like something i saw on "goig tribal" on the discovery channel where they pinch and the slit the skin and do it as a form of body art/rite of passage. his tatoo looked like a sort of panther.....any thoughts. also many african countries were colonized by European nations including france
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Did anyone notice Eko's scars on his chest? or the tatoo on his shoulder both tribal. the scaring looks like something i saw on "goig tribal" on the discovery channel where they pinch and the slit the skin and do it as a form of body art/rite of passage. his tatoo looked like a sort of panther.....any thoughts. also many african countries were colonized by European nations including france
Did not get a real solid look at the tattoo-- someone suggested it was Dharam logo, but I think they were a little shark-happy. It's circular on his shoulder and he's got something on both. Definitely does not look like a typical inked tattoo (sorry, i never got one, so maybe someone with more knwoledge can comment on what kind Eko's was).
Speaking of Dharma logos, Did anyone comment on the Arrow hatch logo? I notice that this logo is also a "broken arrow" where the Dharma word goes through it. And the circle around the center picture was broken in three places. The Swan logo went right through the word and the inner circle was not broken.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: sawyerlost (811 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Sneaker: 1. Eko tells Michael "You don't know what they are capable of". I don't see anything in last night's episode that shows the Others doing anything worse than what Michael has see or heard (like Scott -or is it Steve, having all his bones broken, Kidnapping a pregnant woman, leaving Charlie hanging, beating up the "intense" & fit Jack).
Think of it from Eko's point of view...he doesn't know what they have experienced. I mean, Ana doesnt even let them talk. Even though they agree that Michael, Jin and Sawyer were on the flight, they still treat them like prisoners.
Basically, I think he was saying it to protect him...maybe. That is what's great about this show. You see thing one way, and I see it another.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
That is what's great about this show. You see thing one way, and I see it another.
Maybe-- Eko may have simply been saying what he thought Michael needed to hear in order to get him back to the group where he'd be safer.
O' course, I value seeing things from different angles to drive consensus toward solving the LOST puzzle, not so much remaining on different sides of a particular interpretation. If there are multiple layers of interpretation (and there are a LOT), I hope enough folks can chime in so we catch all the important ones (the one's the writers added on purpose).
Gotta love this show! (Coitanly!)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: back_gammon (1285 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 24, 2005
Was anyone else troubled by little Emma's question to Ana: "Where's our mommy? She's meeting us in LA." Was this just a quick exposition/plot device to develop Ana's character as a caring person, or something else? I'm not sure what to make of it, if anything.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Was anyone else troubled by little Emma's question to Ana: "Where's our mommy? She's meeting us in LA." Was this just a quick exposition/plot device to develop Ana's character as a caring person, or something else? I'm not sure what to make of it, if anything.
LOL I think they may have been scared and confused and maybe thought they were in L.A.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Hi Back! (hidden message there).
Actually, did you notice when Eko holds the Bible and you see it's cover, the letters "H" and "B" stand out from the rest? Any thoughts? No significance?
And his look after he opens the front cover: Puzzlement? Recognition? Has he seen this particular book before?
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: smidgenklecks (131 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 15, 2005
18. Look at the area around the bunker.
I haven't seen it mentioned here (if it was anyway please forgive me) but on the bunker door was also "Quarantine" written. Still wondering what exactly for. Especially since this bunker door seemed to be easier to open even from the outside.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: pssrailguy (409 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi Back! (hidden message there).
Actually, did you notice when Eko holds the Bible and you see it's cover, the letters "H" and "B" stand out from the rest? Any thoughts? No significance?
And his look after he opens the front cover: Puzzlement? Recognition? Has he seen this particular book before?
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
I thought I heard somewhere (possibly from A friend) that the island also gave Ecko soemthing back just like Locke. I was thinking two things:
1. His eyesight. He seems to stare at a lot of things strangely (his hands after killing two others; the bible). he also seems very perceptive to everything around him - wouldn't you be if you just recovered your ability to see?
2. His faith - for most of the same reasonas above.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Chibeargirl (568 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 09, 2005
as far as suspecting cindy. she was in a flight attendant uniform. and, she did know how they would not be found, making the fire useless. she knew about the radio going out, and that they were way off course. Both cindy and Libby were wet, injured, and immediately there. Goodwin was dry, and never looked injured in any way. Nathan did not look injured either.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
as far as suspecting cindy. she was in a flight attendant uniform. and, she did know how they would not be found, making the fire useless. she knew about the radio going out, and that they were way off course. Both cindy and Libby were wet, injured, and immediately there. Goodwin was dry, and never looked injured in any way. Nathan did not look injured either.
I have no doubt Cindy was on the plane & in the water, but I am even more convinced now she is "in" on something and may well have known exactly who Goodwin was. And when A-L comes back from her "pointed" conversation with Goodwin, Cindy is the first one to ask "Where's Goodwin?".
Time will tell. But the Sith... There are always two.... (Oopss... wrong galaxy... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>).
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (550 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
This bunker was certainly not sealed or air-tight, nor did it really seem to be concealed. The Dharma logo was almost crudely painted. No numbers anywhere either. Are the numbers strictly related to the Swan station? And do we have any more information about the antenna from the new radio and its reception?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Chibeargirl (568 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 09, 2005
Hi Lucky, Sneakers, BG!
I agree about the Quarantine thing. Why would it say that, and who would put them in there. I am still baffled that they aren't shocked about the electricty. is it a generator in there? why doesn't anyone freak out about the fact there is electricity?
and BG: you missed me make a stellar point earlier today where someone had the script between Danielle and Hugo, and she said " our ship picked up the transmission, we looked for it...crashed...i changed the transmission." It goes further than the darn island BG. HA! So why wouldnt the Others change it? After 16 years, why wouldnt they touch it, or destroy it? makes me thinkg Danielle isnt telling us everything about her relationship with the Others.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
On the thing about the kids' mother waiting in LA... I agree with cac that they are probably heading from their dad's place in Australia to their mom's place in LA... I wonder if it will turn out that we have "met" either of their parents in flashbacks...
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Hi Lucky, Sneakers, BG!
I agree about the Quarantine thing. Why would it say that, and who would put them in there. I am still baffled that they aren't shocked about the electricty. is it a generator in there? why doesn't anyone freak out about the fact there is electricity?
and BG: you missed me make a stellar point earlier today where someone had the script between Danielle and Hugo, and she said " our ship picked up the transmission, we looked for it...crashed...i changed the transmission." It goes further than the darn island BG. HA! So why wouldnt the Others change it? After 16 years, why wouldnt they touch it, or destroy it? makes me thinkg Danielle isnt telling us everything about her relationship with the Others.
A couple thoughts on that:
1. The rafties left before the hatch was open, so they have no idea how much more comfortable the swan is than the arrow. You'd almost expect Sawyer or Michael to say: "Wait! You guys got electricity here! There must be a generator somewhere nearby. Find that and you got a good chance of finding an escape! And Walt!! Michael emphasizes". They must be wondering about possibly returning to the "bunker".
2. The radio-- There certainly must be some short range & long range (those Long wave transmissions Leonard & Sam picked up) frequencies beaming off the island. So the content of Danielle's transmission may be irrelevant if it cannot travel beyond the island.
3. Danielle not telling us everything--- You said a mouthful there! Probably more than SHE's told the losties....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LeighB04 (1107 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 24, 2005
Still wondering what exactly for. Especially since this bunker door seemed to be easier to open even from the outside.
The Jack group came in through the top hatch opening - not the main door - which although it got stuck a little, seemed easy to access from either side. Perhaps if Locke had stumbled across the door in the first place, all that dynamite wouldn't have been necessary and Artz would still be in one piece.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Chibeargirl (568 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 09, 2005
Why doesn't anyone beleive me that the darn transmission can go beyond the island? You all are driving me crazy! Think of the implications of the fact that the Others know it exists, yet they dont do anything about it. WHY? Why would they want a distress call on the island?
And yes, I agree Sneakers, why didnt walt and sawyer say as well, " how odd, electricity. there must be a source for it? Maybe there are many people on the island." blah blah.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: luvndesperate (261 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 15, 2005
I thought I heard somewhere (possibly from A friend) that the island also gave Ecko soemthing back just like Locke. I was thinking two things:
1. His eyesight. He seems to stare at a lot of things strangely (his hands after killing two others; the bible). he also seems very perceptive to everything around him - wouldn't you be if you just recovered your ability to see?
2. His faith - for most of the same reasonas above.
I'm sure it will turn out to be his eyesight. That's why he's so comfortable with the stick. He's used to a walking stick.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: tzedakajacklover (128 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 14, 2005
Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces
You tend to remember the passengers on the flight...it's your job to notice who they are...especially the men. You 'profile' them based on behavior, age, looks & clothing, class of travel, companions and requests.
It's the age of terrorism-- flight attendents have also been the target of the general decline of customer behavior. Now that the fares are low, so is the demeanor of some of the passengers.
Just life experience...might not be related to the show.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Someone asked earlier why Cindy made such a point to say that she had not once seen Nathan on the plane and that she is very good with faces
You tend to remember the passengers on the flight...it's your job to notice who they are...especially the men. You 'profile' them based on behavior, age, looks & clothing, class of travel, companions and requests.
It's the age of terrorism-- flight attendents have also been the target of the general decline of customer behavior. Now that the fares are low, so is the demeanor of some of the passengers.
Just life experience...might not be related to the show.
So how does Cindy somehow NOT pick up the fact that the tall handsome guy standing right next to her was not also ABSENT from the plane?
I bet she slipped them a copy of the manifest!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
I think it would have to be a larger influence to bring the plane down without more casualties. IHMO, Cindy was on the plane for tactical reasons. She's ground floor personnel. I got the feeling though, that Goodwin was a little higher up. It's a bit overused, but there's that scene where the bad guy always spills way too many beans in the presence of the hero when the bad guy wrongly presumes the hero is about to die. And the bad guy with the loose lips is most often at the top of the organization.
I'm sorry to interrupt your great line of thought here, but I saw something that sparked my interest today. But I'm not going to post it til I know it's worth it. So, my question....
Are the writers still modeling characters off of philosophers? (i.e. John Locke and Rousseau)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: meredg (1922 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 01, 2005
Theyve, post away woman! Share what you are thinking! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: frenchphilos (35 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 11, 2005
and sneaker who would that be ? A philosopher who believes that children are more precious and intelligent than adults? or one who believes that children should rule their own? they're better off now...I still like the flannery o' connor christian eyeball thing(or so I think_
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Interesting result from WIKI looking for Goodwin (it brought GOODwin into the GODwin search results):
"Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi analogies) is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely-recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful."
I have seen this principle in action on this very forum (while not in this thread).
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: EvaNica (161 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
Good evening everyone! I just finished watching the episode and couldn't wait to post, so I haven't read anything you all have written. I apologize if I inadvertently rip off any of your ideas.
I have to admit, I knew about Goodwin from right after the first night. Why?? The colors. The others were all wearing non-descript khaki clothing, and so was Goodwin.... and guess what? So is Libby. It was she who first started getting Ana Lucia all riled up about Nathan. It also seems highly improbable that someone would know how to set a broken leg after one year in medical school. Now, I know we saw Libby from the very beginning looking kind of wet and bruised but I still think we have to watch her.
This was probably evident to you all, as it seems to be the new "Dharma on the Shark's tail" but Eko never told them their name. As improbable as it seems, Ana Lucia may have misheard it at the same time as Sawyer.
I had more thoughts but since it's after midnight I'm going to bid you all a good night and try to do some catch up and write more comments tomorrow.
Best, EVa
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: bigboi10182000 (94 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 22, 2005
Is there anyone who has a picture of Goodwin's face when they see that hatch door? I can't remember, but didn't it appear that even he had never knew about this?
by: lostinspring (3 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 20, 2005
I haven't posted in a while because I didn't get any response to my previous posting, but---
I got the impression from Goodwin that the children are safe. It's hard to explain why, but I think the others only took the good people (which children are by default). Maybe the ones remaining have issues in their past that taint them in some way?
As I watched yesterday I was thinking that Eko was so disturbed by what he was forced to do (commit murder in self defense) that he was basically in shock like you would expect any crime victim to be after such a traumatic ordeal. He needed to take that time(the 40 days) to come to terms with his new world and what it means for him.
As far as Cindy stating that she didn't see the guy on the plane, I thought immediately that she was just being paranoid. Like a snowball growing as it rolls downhill, she was just adding to the growing paranoia surrounding the situation. I don't think she meant to do him harm by lying, I think she was scared.
When I saw the chicken I thought it was from the same place as the polar bear, I never thought about the plane at all.
Just my one cent worth.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: what_went_ping (80 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
A few random thoughts after catching up on the last several pages:
- Electricity in the hatch: I think that at least the tailies might not have been so surprised that there was electricity there. They have no idea that this island is supposedly "deserted" (and I use that word loosely). They've had contact with a relatively large group of people, shabbily dressed though they were. They might have figured that these people must live somewhere, and they might have electricity available on the island. But I agree, Michael, Jin, and Sawyer should have been surprised.
- Ana pregnant? I forgot about her in the bar before the flight. Good point.
- Glass eye: I haven't gone back to check myself, but I read in another thread that one of the dead guys from the drug plane had a patch on his eye. Why he would wear a patch rather than having the eye in, I don't know, but that combined with the Bible and the radio (tuned to the same channel as the one on the plane) seem to point that the trunk in the bunker was full of things from the drug plane pilots. Did anyone see if they pulled a blanket all the way out? I'm wondering if maybe they were monk's robes and not blankets.
- The Bible: It's hard to say if Eko recognized that particular Bible or not. I think he opened the front cover because that is often where people will write their names. Sometimes even a whole family tree is written inside the front cover of the family Bible. So he might have thought that he could find something out about whose it was by looking there. Also, if it could be that he was blind before the crash, that he's seeing a Bible for the first time. I agree that he seems to be a man of faith (minister or otherwise), so I get the impression that the Bible is a meaningful text to him.
- Cindy: If she were physically involved in the plane's crashing, I would think that that would be the first thing the pilot said when he woke up..."one of the flight attendants came in here and..." Also, that would mean that everything from the minute the communication went out was orchestrated (externally?). Otherwise they never would have "happened" to end up right over the island for her to crash it there.
- Did anyone else think that they heard the "roar" aspect of the monster as the plane was crashing down? I understand that sound guys use a lot of sounds to make up a single sound like a crash (the tornados in Twister with lions roaring is one example), but it did have a monster-ish sound to it, just as the tail splashed down.
That's all I can think of for now-- ping
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: luvndesperate (261 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 15, 2005
We know dharma is a buddhism reference. There's also a swan and an arrow in prince who became Buddha mythology. And the prince was isolated by his parents from anyone who was diseased or sick. Anybody that add to how this might relate to Lost?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Hi everyone! I posted this in another thread that ended up sinking into board oblivion, but I'd like your input on these ideas:
A certain Stranger made some recent comments that got me wondering about something along these lines...
So far, we've only seen the whispers happen in the jungle in the Fusies section of the island...
We've seen the others/them very active in the Tailies section of the island...
What if the whisperers are the Dharma researchers, and the security system is connected to the magnetic properties of the Fusies section of the island and to the button in the hatch? What if it helps protect them from the "others"? What if the "others" were a military unit sent in to take over the Dharma researchers findings? This could have been the "incident". What if they haven't given up on their mission, and now they try to add recruits to their mission by grabbing people off the beach?
So I guess I'm calling Ethan, Goodwin, and the barefoot people "others"... I'm suggesting that Desmond got "recruited" by Kelvin, a whisperer... that Danielle has somehow stayed out of this, except for the fact that someone took her baby!... and I don't know where the "pirates" who stole Walt belong, with the "others", I guess, based on their strategy...
Like I said, this borrows a lot from a Stranger's comments (which I may be interpreting correctly or may not be!)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Chibeargirl (568 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 09, 2005
hi ping.
maybe the "roar" was like an alarm that went off to notify the Others, which ever group of Others, that something was afoot? that something happened? or maybe bernard set it off? which would explain why goodwin came so quickly
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
This was pretty interesting to me when I googled William Godwin. (By the way, saw his name on a jeopardy! question today... It was too similar to pass up.)
I'll highlyight some things: William Godwin (1756-1836) was the founder of philosophical anarchism. In his An Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (1793) he argued that government is a corrupting force in society, perpetuating dependence and ignorance, but that it will be rendered increasingly unnecessary and powerless by the gradual spread of knowledge. Politics will be displaced by an enlarged personal morality as truth conquers error and mind subordinates matter. In this development the rigorous exercise of private judgment, and its candid expression in public discussion, plays a central role, motivating his rejection of a wide range of co- operative and rule-governed practices which he regards as tending to mental enslavement, such as law, private property, marriage and concerts. Epitomising the optimism of events in France at the time he began writing, Godwin looked forward to a period in which the dominance of mind over matter would be so complete that mental perfectibility would take a physical form, allowing us to control illness and ageing and become immortal.
I thought it was interesting. He's also on Wikipedia, but I didn't like that description as much.
Hey Mere, honey! I asked you in my thread last night about the questions if it was God-awfully cold there? I haven't talked to anyone there in awhile, but if you guys sent this bad weather up here, I'm angry. It was 60 last week, now it's 25!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: love2scuba (56 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 14, 2005
I have no duobt Cindy was on the plane & in the water, but I am even more convinced now she is "in" on something and may well have know exactly who Goodwin was. And when A-L comes back from her "pointed" conversation with Goodwin, Cindy is the first one to ask "Where's Goodwin?".
I think Cindy is one of the Others also. It has always bothered me that people were saying one of the twins from the Other's boat was a flight attendant on Flight 815. Maybe Cindy, another flight attendant, is also one of the Others and disappeared on purpose.
Bigboi - I don't have a screencap, but I remember thinking how startled Goodwin looked when he saw the door - even more than the rest of the group.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: pau_hana (29 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
This whole phenomina of people who live on the island (Danielle, Goodwin) Being startled by the presence of the stations (Swan hatch, Arrow door) Is irking me!
Hasn't Danielle been roaming around the island searching for Alex? How many of the stations are on the island? All six? If the others are affiliated with Dharma, Goodwin should not be suprised!
This leads me to conclude one of two things
1. The others are not affiliated with Dharma
or
2. The others are left overs from Dharma that have "lost touch" with some or all of the other stations (this would def. be true in the case of swan). They might be looking for the "lost" stations, esp Arrow, searching and searching when..... Goodwin stumbles upon it while undercover w/ the tailies...thus his surprise! "A-ha!"
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cdarma01 (2 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
I too have been lurking for a while, but there is something I felt like I needed to add. There has been a lot of speculation as to where Ethan fits in to the "others" or Nathan or Goodwin... I have to admit as soon as AL asked Nathan where he was from, I said "Canada" out loud before he had a chance to answer thinking he was definitley connected to Ethan... I was nonetheless surprised when Goodwin killed him and turned out to be one of the "others." However, over the weekend I had rewatched "Hearts and Minds" from last season where Boone had his vision of Shannon dying... It is right after Claire and Charley have gone missing. While Locke and Boone are attempting to track them, Locke specifically points out 3 sets of tracks... insinuating that Ethan leaves tracks. In that case, I would venture to say that Ethan was NOT one of the members of the "others" as we know them. Do I think there is a connection between Ethan and Nathan still - yes - but I think that they are part of another group on the island... and more and more, I'm thinking it's with Danielle - still a story to be told I guess.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LA5648 (827 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 05, 2005
Well- not sure if this means anything, but in the idea of throw enough on the wall some has gotta stick the 40 day reference- as a 12 yr catholic schooler- in Aramaic (the language of the ancient Bible) it did not contain an easy way to say 'many things' and used a term which has come down to us as 40. This means that when the bible -- in many places -- refers to '40 days,' they meant many days. --I have also "heard" of a santaria thread that I haven't yet read- regarding the 40 days of no speaking and no eating chicken- as a recipient of chicken bones around my car-there may be something there as well
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (550 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
I haven't worked all of this out, but I do think that the Others may be sick, and that they may be taking people either to help them or to protect the ones taken. They seem frightened to me, more than malicious.
I'm not convinced that the Others are evil.
I'm not convinced that either Nathan, Ethan, or Goodwin are part of the tribal others. But I do think that Ethan, Goodwin, and probably Nathan are all bad, bad guys. I don't think that Nathan and Goodwin are part of the same infiltration team. No one else was awake when Goodwin snapped Nathan's neck like a chicken bone, yet Goodwin kept up the pretense of setting him free, giving him fruit, etc. If they had been partners of some sort we would have seen some signs of complicity then.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Well- not sure if this means anything, but in the idea of throw enough on the wall some has gotta stick the 40 day reference- as a 12 yr catholic schooler- in Aramaic (the language of the ancient Bible) it did not contain an easy way to say 'many things' and used a term which has come down to us as 40. This means that when the bible -- in many places -- refers to '40 days,' they meant many days. --I have also "heard" of a santaria thread that I haven't yet read- regarding the 40 days of no speaking and no eating chicken- as a recipient of chicken bones around my car-there may be something there as well
There is a similar pattern in Kings and Chronicles, where early Jewish Kings reign for 40 years. This is often interpreted as simply "many years".
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Chibeargirl (568 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 09, 2005
Lucky. Hey!
I agree that Goodwin and Ethan (still not counting nathan, he didnt know where the beach was) , are not the tribal others. however, i still think they are part of the hanso foundation. I am sick of calling them the others. They need people to oversee all of the sectors of the island. look at all of the topics on the hanso site. they are studying people and all of those things. not all of them will be the same. i think the whole clothing thing is us just trying to be too logical. lets go with illogical.
by: mzipluvlost (8 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 10, 2005
Coming out from lurking for awhile....
Was thinking about a few things. 1 - Nathan and the "bathroom." On the plane, Charlie hid his drugs in the bathroom. Is there any possibility that Nathan has a similiar problem and/or a connection to the drug smugglers? Maybe he went searching for the drug smugglers' plane when he was missing for 2 hours. Just a thought. 2. What if Emma and her brother were the kids Shannon used to nanny for? We have always thought the father was on the plane, but what if it was the children instead? 3. How did AL become the alpha leader in this group? For the fusies, Jack was a doctor and this made him important to the group, and Locke seemed to know a lot about hunting and surviving, which made him important. But what exactly did AL have that made her become the leader? I just think its interesting to study the different group dynamics.
Ok, I think that is all for now. I am exhausted, since I am on the east coast, so I will check in tomorrow if anyone has thoughts on my thoughts.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (395 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
My thoughts on Page 28. Sorry if this has already been said; I haven't read the last pages.
Ginger: Goodwin wanted signal fire "so they can find us".
I think it's more like Goodwin wanted signal fire "so They can find us".
Jersey: Did anyone catch the deleted scene on GMA? The two children found a crate full of boomerangs on the beach. It looks to be early on. Another game? Something else?
Did it look like this came from the plane? If it looks like it's been there longer, this is the first Australian item we've seen on the island.
Why did Goodwin stay? If the children were the goal, why stay ten days after they had been secured?
Thanks for bringing us this, Mars. I've been wondering the same thing, but haven't come up with an answer yet. He might have needed their help to find the Arrow station. It was after they found it that he decided to kill Ana and would have probably proceeded to kill everyone else too.
I won't be around tomorrow, either, but I'll try to catch up on Saturday. Have a good weekend, everyone!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: EvaNica (161 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
Lostinspring:
About Cindy and the snowball effect... Exactly, and did you happen to notice which very skilled clinical psychologist started the paranoia?
Well, I don't know if you can say very skilled, but I wanted to put that in there for emphasis. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Message was edited because I forgot to include the quote!
Message was edited by: EvaNica for the "e" in snowball!!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: abraxas1954 (726 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2004
Why did Goodwin stay? If the children were the goal, why stay ten days after they had been secured?
Thanks for bringing us this, Mars. I've been wondering the same thing, but haven't come up with an answer yet. He might have needed their help to find the Arrow station. It was after they found it that he decided to kill Ana and would have probably proceeded to kill everyone else too.
I think he stayed to make sure that they didn't/couldn't cause them (the others or the other others, or whomever he represents) any problems. I think that he was probably going to run off with the radio and report it and the newly discovered station, and only attempted to kill Ana after she insisted that she come along. If she hadn't gone along, he may not have even felt the need to come back, thinking that they were tucked away in a bunker that he now knew about - with their ability to communicate gone.
Don't know if that made any sense.....
-Brax
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Chibeargirl (568 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Nov 09, 2005
Not stalking you Brax, but i monitor this thread.
I agree with you. And no one seems to agree with me. So where does that leave us? Everyone talks about goodwin looking like he was shocked about the bunker, but maybe he was afraid of it. I think he did know about it. how could he not? or maybe he was overcompensating with his whole act? If he looked familiar with it, people would be suspicious, right?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: abraxas1954 (726 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2004
You're correct in that we can't tell if he is acting like he didn't know about it, or if he really didn't know about it...
Now for the stalking - if I see a post from you on the FAQ site, then I may start to get nervous.... src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
-Brax
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
Phew!
Finally got to see the new episode last night and just got caught up reading this thread. Hoo boy ... what a show!
General random observations:
* The glass eye - I always thought Gerald DeGroot's eyes looked a bit .. odd. Could it possibly be his?
* Nathan - Is it settled if he was on the plane or not? I don't think it has. I tend to think he is an "other" and that Goodwin killed him in order to keep him from telling the Tailies any useful info.
* Nathan (Part II) - I joked earlier this year during various "twin" discussions that it would be funny if Ethan had a twin who infiltrated the Tailes and his name was "Nathan Rem" (stop reading my posts Damon!)
* Eko - I don't think this is his name. I think it's a nickname given to him by the Tailies during his 40 day vow of silence. Ie - when they spoke to him, the only reply they ever got back was an Echo.
* Eko (part II) - Is he a priest perhaps? White shirt with black suit? Tie already ripped away ... or was it? Could he have had a collar there instead? And could this be why when Jin asked if he was married, he replied something to the effect of "worse."? Ie - he's married to the church?
* Goodwin and the others - The US Army knife, coupled with the way Goodwin killed Nathan, and the silent but deadly way these 'others' struck leads me to wonder if they are survivors from a botched military invasion of the island (the incident perhaps?). Ex special forces? Taking it even further, was Danielle's "team" also another military attempt at infiltrating the island ?
* Military (part II) - The boat others who took Walt. The woman at the wheel seemed to have an army jacked on, no?
* The Dharma symbol - An arrow inside a circle. A compass. Another nod to magnetism.
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
PS - looked like Goodwin used a garrote on Nathan, no?
Another indication that he's military. Either that or "fat caporegime" Peter Clemenza ... "Hello, Carlo" src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
One other thing I found odd and that I don't think supports my "others are military" theory is the fact that they struck the very first night. I would think a military unit would have done a little more reconnaisence before striking.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: gingerpeachypie (53 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
Ginger: Goodwin wanted signal fire "so they can find us".
I think it's more like Goodwin wanted signal fire "so They can find us".
Cac - That's exactly what I meant. I just didn't emphasize the "They". I thought at that point that he was a little shifty. The common words that are used by all of the characters have begun to take on dual meaning!
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
It was after they found it that he decided to kill Ana and would have probably proceeded to kill everyone else too.
Cac- I think you're right on this last point. Goodwin possibly figured it would be easier to pick off the weaker ones gradually until only Eko (and other Others?) were left. It probably became apparent that night raids were not going to be effective against the Eko/A-L tag team, so instead of frontal attack, subversion was the order of the day.
Another note regarding Goodwin & Nathan: Goodwin definitely does not appear until the "Save Bernard" scene, but watch the opening footage right after A-L makes her promise to the girl. A-L looks up a little to survey the beach and then looks up higher to survey the Jungle/mountains beyond. Right at the beginning of her "beyond" view you can see a man with wet hair & red/pink shirt from the shoulder up. He is in focus and visible at the bottom of the screen. I believe that is Nathan. If so, this proves he was wet & on the beach during the crash; much greater evidence that he was on the plane. I checked Lost-media, but they do not have a screen cap of those frames.
Another note to ponder: During the second raid, was A-L targeted for abduction? I think they took 9 people and had targeted 9. If A-L WAS on the list, and they did not get her, then how'd the end up taking 9 anyway? Goodwin certainly had time to determine if A-L was a "keeper" and there is evidence to suggest he was impressed by her leadership and survival skills. Is she infertile? Some dark secret about children in her past? She asked enough questions with Goodwin before their fight-- I wish she'd have had enough pride to ask "What am I here: Chopped Liver?!?"
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: jenniferplease (234 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 12, 2005
I don't know if Nathan was an Other, wouldn't an Other know the way to the beach? He asked Goodwin where it was before he was killed. Unless he is another Other-dumber ones? Need two hours to go to the bathroom src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Earlier on this thread we were discussing Peter Pan/Disney connections and I thought I'd add that I noticed the way Ana speared Goodwin was exactly like the way the mother bear impaled itself on Keeni's wooden spear in Brother Bear.
There was also a teddy bear in The Rescuers that the little girl Penny dragged around everywhere. The badguy (lady)- Medusa I believe, kept sending her down a well into some mine to find treasure, especially a giant ruby (which Penny ended up hiding in her teddy bear).
Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. Don't think it really means anything. Thought ME might find it interesting since she was leading the Peter Pan stuff. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Yes - Nathan's poor sense of direction also keeps me in the "Nathan's NOT an Other" camp. Just thought I'd add some potential evidence placing him on the beach & wet. After that, the first time you see him is sleeping to A-L's right on the beach the first night.
And I think ME will find more interesting the apparent reputation she has "leading the Peter pan stuff." src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Have fun!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: maxter715 (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 23, 2005
3. How did AL become the alpha leader in this group? For the fusies, Jack was a doctor and this made him important to the group, and Locke seemed to know a lot about hunting and surviving, which made him important. But what exactly did AL have that made her become the leader? I just think its interesting to study the different group dynamics.
I rewatched this episode again last night and was struck by how the Tailies seemed to become scared of Anna as the days went on. I got the impression that they started feeling like if they did anything to "disagree" with her that she might throw them in the pit or worse. Oposed to our other Losties who follow Jack and Locke because of definate leadership qualities, the Tailies are following AL out of fear.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: jenniferplease (234 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 12, 2005
And I think ME will find more interesting the apparent reputation she has "leading the Peter pan stuff." src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
LOL!!!!
I'm sure she'll love me for that!!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: samq79 (26 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
I was discussing this week's episode with my wife, and came up with some interesting thoughts. We were discussing how the numbers seem to be mostly absent from the Tailies camp, and I was trying to prove her wrong. In the abductions, she said that they could have at least followed the numbers, because everything else does...for a moment, she had me wondering if the producers were just tired of throwing the numbers in everywhere, but then I realized that they were just a little more tricky than normal. In the first abduction, they were able to take 3 of the tailies, but their mission called for 4. They were thwarted in that attempt by Eko, so they were only allowed to get away with the 3. To compensate, they took 9(one extra over the 8 needed) when they came back on the next attack.
I also think that Goodwin's reply to Ana about torturing Nathan was a key moment of the episode because it's a two-sided statement. He says, "We're not savages, Ana." While this keeps with the idea of Goodwin not wanting Ana to torture Nathan, he also may be talking from an "Others'" point of view.
By the way, I posted this yesterday, but there is another oceanic site online at http://www.oceanicworldair.com I checked it out yesterday, and not only does it have a link on the page to mrclucks.com, but the whois search shows that it is most definitely not an ABC affiliated site, but it does have some interesting content, most notably, a well-made Sydney, Australia newspaper. So, it's not an ABC site, but you may want to check it out just the same. I'll probably have more thoughts later, but I think I'll go back to lurking for the time being.
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Found this on another thread and wanted to post it here. It's both interesting and creepy. It hasn't all sunk in yet so I don't have any theories as of now.
from Lostlinks:
JUNGLE WHISPER TRANSCRIPTS
COURTESY OF 'PENYOURS' & 'RVTURNAGE' FROM THE FUSELAGE AND 'ADAWHEN' FROM THE ABC MESSAGE BOARDS
ANA & MR. EKO'S GROUP IN THE JUNGLE From 'Abandoned'
Combined Transcripts From 'Penyours' & 'RVTurnage' Overlapping Left, Center & Right Audio Tracks
Who's this in the woods Sawyer Ana I'm in someone's dream Ich Weiss Nicht (German for 'I don't know') She's heavy Black Rock Bring the boy I'm in someone's dream ------ Look in the eyes, right? Do you see her? (or possibly 'Lucia') It's the brothers that help us I can see eye to eye Sawyer Did she see? Bossy eh missy? I'm in someone's dream I know it all, I know it all It's the eyes (or possibly 'Lucia') I can see eye to eye I'm in someone's dream ------ I know it all, I know it all Do you see her? (or possibly 'Lucia') I can see eye to eye Did she see? Shannon Hide behind me Bossy eh missy? I'm in someone's dream I know it all (repeated in background) Under the eye (or possibly 'Eye to eye') It's the eyes (or possibly 'Lucia') I can see eye to eye She's bossy I'm in someone's dream
SHANNON & SAYID IN THE JUNGLE From 'Abandoned'
Combined Transcripts By 'Penyours' & 'RVTurnage' Overlapping Left, Center & Right Audio Tracks
Relax dude She likes the guy She's coming I don't know if I can run, but I can (or can't) yell Shannon sighs (Scream) Dying sucks Hurry up Shh ------ She likes this guy Dying sucks Hi sis Here she comes, here she comes His mouth She drives me crazy Hurry up I see eye to eye I see... ------ Relax dude She likes the guy What do you think we should do? She's coming We should hide, we should run Heard some voice See ya (or possibly 'Lucia') Hide the scope Hurry up
Hide the Scope ... hmmmmmmm
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
The whisper transcripts are very strange. Many of them I can see being the thoughts of the lostaways themselves, somehow amplified. Part of the Hanso "Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility" project?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: The_Original_G_Man (1255 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
Hide the Scope ... hmmmmmmm
Yes, hide the scope. You should definitely use Listerine instead. Fights germs and gives you minty fresh breathJ! src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
(new thread now, Cac? Please?)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (878 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Eva:This was probably evident to you all, as it seems to be the new "Dharma on the Shark's tail" but Eko never told them their name. As improbable as it seems, Ana Lucia may have misheard it at the same time as Sawyer.
But we didn't hear all of them give their names to everyone, did we? We heard Bernard give his name to A/L... and heard Goodwin give his name to A/L... but I don't remember Cindy telling her name to anyone, or Libby. That's not to say they didn't - I think they certainly all did. My point is, they just didn't show us every introduction.
Ping:But I agree, Michael, Jin, and Sawyer should have been surprised.
Well, keep in mind, the rafties knew Danielle had electricity, and they knew there was some sort of power source on the island strong enough to broadcast the transmission. So, yes... maybe surpised there would be working electricity and a working lamp in that bunker, but not as surprised as the Tailies should have been.
theyvegot: This was pretty interesting to me when I googled William Godwin. (By the way, saw his name on a jeopardy! question today... It was too similar to pass up.)
I saw that too, and IMMEDIATELY thought the same thing!
scuba:Bigboi - I don't have a screencap, but I remember thinking how startled Goodwin looked when he saw the door - even more than the rest of the group.
I agree! He kind of looked as if to say "What the f***! How come we never noticed this?"
lucky:No one else was awake when Goodwin snapped Nathan's neck like a chicken bone, yet Goodwin kept up the pretense of setting him free, giving him fruit, etc. If they had been partners of some sort we would have seen some signs of complicity then.
I keep going back and forth on whether I think Nathan was an Other in it with Goodwin or not. I say this because when he was gone for 2 hours, he could have given the list to the Others. Also, he hesitated before saying he was from Canada. And, it seems odd to me that he'd stay in Australia a couple days to sight see by himself - though maybe he met an Ozzy gal who he wanted to hang with for a few days. I thought maybe Goodwin killed him because he thought if A/L was planning to cut his finger off the next night, then he might start spilling the beans.
HOWEVER, why would Nathan go to the beach then, and not inland... to were the rest of the Others are, if he's an Other? Why would he ask Goodwin which way to the beach?
Chibeargirl:I agree that Goodwin and Ethan (still not counting nathan, he didnt know where the beach was) , are not the tribal others. however, i still think they are part of the hanso foundation. I am sick of calling them the others.
By the way, I think there are Others, and then there are THEM, and there are the Whisperers. The Others are the boat people who took Walt. The THEM are the folks who took the folks on the beach. Not sure who Ethan and Goodwin fit in... but Goodwin HAS to be connected to the folks who took kidnapped the 3 and 9 Tailies... because he knew WHY they wanted the first 4 they targeted, and he knew WHY Nathan wasn't taken... and he knew that the kids were ok, and "better off".
brax:I think he stayed to make sure that they didn't/couldn't cause them (the others or the other others, or whomever he represents) any problems. I think that he was probably going to run off with the radio and report it and the newly discovered station, and only attempted to kill Ana after she insisted that she come along. If she hadn't gone along, he may not have even felt the need to come back, thinking that they were tucked away in a bunker that he now knew about - with their ability to communicate gone.
True... maybe he would have just left then and there... making them think the Others (or THEM) took him. Meanwhile, he'd let Them know where the Tailies where hiding out, so they could go and attack.
Sneaker:And I think ME will find more interesting the apparent reputation she has "leading the Peter pan stuff."
Haha, Sneaker! Very funny. src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
beau:Hide the Scope ... hmmmmmmm
Woe! That's WILD!
And the part "I'm in someone's dream" - makes me think we should start looking at who all had dreams, and who all was in them.
G-man: (new thread now, Cac? Please?)
G-man, our rule of thumb is that we always start a new thread after we reach 1000 posts.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
I keep going back and forth on whether I think Nathan was an Other in it with Goodwin or not. I say this because when he was gone for 2 hours, he could have given the list to the Others. Also, he hesitated before saying he was from Canada. And, it seems odd to me that he'd stay in Australia a couple days to sight see by himself - though maybe he met an Ozzy gal who he wanted to hang with for a few days. I thought maybe Goodwin killed him because he thought if A/L was planning to cut his finger off the next night, then he might start spilling the beans.
HOWEVER, why would Nathan go to the beach then, and not inland... to were the rest of the Others are, if he's an Other? Why would he ask Goodwin which way to the beach?
Hi ME!
Did you see the Wet haired Nathan in the first bit of TO48D? Right after A-L makes the promise to the little girl. She looks up at the mountains, and you can just see Nathan at the bottom of the screen. In focus and decked out in his Star Trek Red-shirt. And his hair is wet!
And big point that "Others" return inland-- they do not "go back" to the beach.
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
BTW: I owe you a coffee-- the kids were taken on the second abduction.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
I keep going back and forth on whether I think Nathan was an Other in it with Goodwin or not. I say this because when he was gone for 2 hours, he could have given the list to the Others. Also, he hesitated before saying he was from Canada.
By the way, I think there are Others, and then there are THEM, and there are the Whisperers. The Others are the boat people who took Walt. The THEM are the folks who took the folks on the beach.
According to your definitions, I'd say it was pretty obvious that Goodwin was one of THEM. I think Nathan was an OTHER. He wanted to get back to the beach and back to his boat friends or maybe he just asked in order to be coy. Like he didn't want to tip Goodwin off about being an OTHER. I rewatched a bunch of times, and the first time we see him is the night of the attacks. He is sleeping next to Ana Lucia, so i'm sure he was there when they went to sleep, but I never saw him come out of the ocean. I think maybe Goodwin knew he was an OTHER but maybe he didn't know Goodwin was with THEM. It's funny, cause on the first night Goodwin and Nathan both sleep on either side of Ana Lucia and they both sleep facing her. Maybe they were both keeping an eye on her.
Now the WHISPERS have me confused, I don't have any theories that hold water yet. I suspect they live in the trees around the Losties side of the island (all the references to up), but I don't have any proof yet.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
This was pretty interesting to me when I googled William Godwin. (By the way, saw his name on a jeopardy! question today... It was too similar to pass up.)
I'll highlyight some things: William Godwin (1756-1836) was the founder of philosophical anarchism. In his An Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (1793) he argued that government is a corrupting force in society, perpetuating dependence and ignorance, but that it will be rendered increasingly unnecessary and powerless by the gradual spread of knowledge. Politics will be displaced by an enlarged personal morality as truth conquers error and mind subordinates matter. In this development the rigorous exercise of private judgment, and its candid expression in public discussion, plays a central role, motivating his rejection of a wide range of co- operative and rule-governed practices which he regards as tending to mental enslavement, such as law, private property, marriage and concerts. Epitomising the optimism of events in France at the time he began writing, Godwin looked forward to a period in which the dominance of mind over matter would be so complete that mental perfectibility would take a physical form, allowing us to control illness and ageing and become immortal.
I thought it was interesting. He's also on Wikipedia, but I didn't like that description as much.
Hey Mere, honey! I asked you in my thread last night about the questions if it was God-awfully cold there? I haven't talked to anyone there in awhile, but if you guys sent this bad weather up here, I'm angry. It was 60 last week, now it's 25!
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
Did you see the Wet haired Nathan in the first bit of TO48D? Right after A-L makes the promise to the little girl. She looks up at the mountains, and you can just see Nathan at the bottom of the screen. In focus and decked out in his Star Trek Red-shirt. And his hair is wet!
I certainly did not see this, can you make a screen capture?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: 042078 (735 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Feb 17, 2005
One other thing I found odd and that I don't think supports my "others are military" theory is the fact that they struck the very first night. I would think a military unit would have done a little more reconnaisence before striking.
Maybe they already knew they were coming...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (76 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Sneaker: Did you see the Wet haired Nathan in the first bit of TO48D? Right after A-L makes the promise to the little girl. She looks up at the mountains, and you can just see Nathan at the bottom of the screen. In focus and decked out in his Star Trek Red-shirt. And his hair is wet!
Sneaker, I'm assuming that your position on Nathan is that he was on the plane and uninvolved with any of the island factions... If that's your position, I wholeheartedly agree. If fact, I think the purpose of a few of the questions is to lead us to this conclusion...
14. Why was Nathan in Australia?
A company retreat, cac (I think) pointed out that Hurley said the same thing about Steve/Scott at his funeral, so it's likely that Nathan was telling the truth...
15. Why does he say he wasn't apparent on the plane?
He was in the bathroom --- to me, this gives an explanation for what he was doing in the jungle alone, defying A-L's rules, for two hours... Who wants company when you're in that kind of condition?
And as for his rude and aggressive attitude --- I would guess that some people just don't like being told what to do...
Message was edited by: chenmeina
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (77 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
14. Why was Nathan in Australia?
A company retreat, cac (think) pointed out that Hurley said the same thing about Steve/Scott at his funeral, so it's likely that Nathan was telling the truth...
Very true, and Ethan killed him just like Goodwin killed Nathan.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1336 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
I certainly did not see this, can you make a screen capture?
Sorry - I've tried but it always ends up black. Watch it right after she makes the promise. There is a scene when she looks up at the mountains in the background. IMHO it's definitely Nathan walking away and to the left with his head turned to the left so you can see him.
Since he's dead along with Goodwin, there may be no way to verify this unless we see him somewhere in A-L's airport flashback next week.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: fedrich519 (1223 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 13, 2004
Hello to the Think Tank!
Just stopping in for a visit. Hade some thoughts on Goodwin. If others have touched on any of this previously, I apologize. Here goes...
Was it me or did he seem out of the loop? On more than one occasion the camera panned over to him during some revelation and he seemed confused and/or surprised. I got the impression that the hatch/bunker was something new to him. Watch the scene again, watch Goodwin's face when they find it. Everything in the hatch seemed like a confusing surprise to him.
Are The Others the key to everything? Or are they just one of the players, one of the many pawns of Dharma like everyone else?
After they discovered the hatch/bunker, Goodwin was very anxious to go up the mountain and try out the radio alone. He probably wanted to go tell The Others about the hatch they just found and to pass off the radio to them or destroy it.
Watching again when they found Bernard. Got the feeling that Goodwin wanted to climb the tree to try and "save" Bernard but would in fact cause an "accident" and Bernard would have fallen.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
This is at about 3:15 into E0207. A-L makes her promise, looks up at the people on the beach, then looks up higher at the Jungle & Mountains. This cropped photo comes from the bottom of the screen. Notice how the light "glistens" off his wet hair & neck-- or maybe the Others simply have great skin & hair products....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
This is at about 3:15 into E0207. A-L makes her promise, looks up at the people on the beach, then looks up higher at the Jungle & Mountains. This cropped photo comes from the bottom of the screen. Notice how the light "glistens" off his wet hair & neck-- or maybe the Others simply have great skin & hair products....
SOLD!
Beautiful work Sneaker. I think we can put that mystery to rest. Unless he just happened to be enjoying the beatiful day at the beach when a plane crashed down on him... dun dun dun.
Re: 
Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
reply
src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> ), so I feel grateful (not discouraged) that Poor and her friend had their discussion in a public forum, so we could attempt to glean something from it, and bravo to Poor's friend for making progress!
src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>) about who actually set up and lit that fire on the beach that Sayid/Charlie found before taking Aaron back from Danielle?
src="http://forums.go.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif" border=0 onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>).