by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
But if Jin DID use the word Pyramid.... that could support the telepathy notion. Any exact word that surfaces in both the Korean and English dialogs between Jin & M/S supports a possible artificial enhancement of their communication....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Sneaker:But if Jin DID use the word Pyramid.... that could support the telepathy notion. Any exact word that surfaces in both the Korean and English dialogs between Jin & M/S supports a possible artificial enhancement of their communication....
Oh, I get it now. Well, the fact that Hurley said "p e e on it" to Jin, and Jin is who Sawyer is saying "p e e on it" to, is sort of a connection, isn't it?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
But if Jin DID use the word Pyramid.... that could support the telepathy notion. Any exact word that surfaces in both the Korean and English dialogs between Jin & M/S supports a possible artificial enhancement of their communication....
Right. Of course, maybe he just said,"I'll climb on your shoulders" in Korean, but I'd still like to know exactly what his words were. Also, I was thinking that whatever he said might relate to something Hurley had just said in some way. Hey, maybe in Korean it was, "No more human geodesic domes!"... ME, I'll go back and get those links for you. Then maybe we can work on the second part--the when/where/how of some of the other communications too. It would be interesting to list visions, dreams, etc. the characters have had, and the where/when and maybe even make some kind of a map and plot them (some near the hatch, the BR, etc.). I printed out one of EL's maps, maybe I could try and map where some of these occur?
by: EvaNica (172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
Errr.... Sorry guys! I just realized you're talking about something completely different now... didn't mean to interrupt your conversation, but I got excited when inthehaze wrote that about the holographic images!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Eva: I have always thought so. The projector in the hatch makes me think there's other things (sounds and images) that could be projected as well.
I agree. I thought the same thing when it was first aired. I remember even posting a Star Wars "I need you, Obi Wan" hologram reference (in jest). " type="#_x0000_t75">
Eva:Errr.... Sorry guys! I just realized you're talking about something completely different now... didn't mean to interrupt your conversation, but I got excited when inthehaze wrote that about the holographic images!
Eva, you weren't interrupting! It all fits, I think...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: mmecoquenard (725 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 29, 2005
ME or Cac, I'm going to need a clarification, I'm sorry!
We think we got our signals crossed, but if you see this, I need one or the other of you to give me a yes or a no on posting questions in here tomorrow night.
Don't feel you have to, and frankly, with the deteriorating mental state of some posters, I wouldn't be surprised if you would rather we didn't. I have messages that a small, but determined group of hobbit hunters is feeling cut off from the world of Tolkein or some such nonsense, and are giving headaches to another board. One would think by 30 the love of asexual beings would become passe. But after a little board attack this morning, if you need me to stay out of this thread, please, just say so!
Again, if you have any reservations about having them in here, please just say no. That's fine! If we see a yes, then we'll know you do want them. Hope that was clear! And either way, thanks for giving them a home while it lasted!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Hi everyone! Last night I was thinking some more about the "p e e on it" thing as "mind" communication and now with the synthetic telepathy thing (which I am understanding as telepathy --- both reading and sending thoughts --- through computers) I feel like I want to put a few more ideas out there...
There have been a number of instances (although the specifics are escaping me!) where Ada's questions and clues have led us to notice two people using (or being exposed to) the same not-very-common phrases. In the past, the general conclusion has been that those two people must have a connection in their pasts; for example, they have picked up that phrase from someone they both know, etc. But now I'm thinking that these may have been more examples of this same kind of "mind" communication happening on the island...
The other thing is about mind-control through computers... ME, I don't know if you remember this discussion last spring, but I do... we were following one of Ada's clues (about Teresa up/down in Locke's dream, I think) and we got what seemed like a thumbs up from her... at the time, I was sold on the idea of a psychic using the antenna and the EM field to do mind control, but you brought up the idea that the mind control could be done through machines, do you remember? Now that I've seen the level of technology in the hatch, and with this synthetic telepathy thing, I think you were right all the way back then! So now I'm wondering if this "mind" communication that's occurring on the island is being manipulated by a person/group or if it is just the side-effect of the EM field and "leftovers" from Dharma... Also, I'm wondering if Walt is at the para-psychology station (I'm sure that must not be a new idea, though) and if that station is at the antenna, near the Black Rock, or not...
And of course, I'm always wondering if the thing I'm currently pondering is central to the island mystery/solution or just a small side-piece!
I was hasty in my excitement to know what it was, so I just gave my basic understanding of what it meant--I'll bet that there is lots of interesting info out there.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Mme, you dear soul, the answer is YES, YES, YES to posting the questions here, and to post ANYTHING else you want to post here. NO reservations! No fear here!
And you ALWAYS have a home here... there is no question or doubt about that at all.
I'm very sorry if there was any confusion... but I'm so happy you came to clarify. We look forward to the questions!
And thanks for the message you sent earlier for us... and the topic to research. You're the best! ">
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: dad_of_4_ (2117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
Dull knife is waiving his hand ferociously.....
(in his best Horshack - OOO Oh....Mr Kotter voice)
insert questions and or comments here.....
Por favor Gitana Mia - and I have a huge favor to ask...Anyway to get them in Korean....I have two Hair dressers here that would kill for a link to Lost discussion in Korean....
by: LostinBlue (2462 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 18, 2005
ME and or Cac, please send Mme. a hearty "yes!" soon. Let her know she is always welcome here.
I'm so grateful for the clue she left this morning. I've been away from the thread, but look forward to adding to your research in a bit.
I read that someone suggested looking into the "where" of the "events." A made that suggestions a while ago. To map out where the strange things took place. I'll try to find the exact wording...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
ME or Cac, I'm going to need a clarification, I'm sorry!
We think we got our signals crossed, but if you see this, I need one or the other of you to give me a yes or a no on posting questions in here tomorrow night.
Mme., from a person you don't know but who's an admirer-- BIG LOUD YES!!!
(small children flee in fear as mother screams at computer...)
(Yes, please!)
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
chen: In some cases the use of the same unique word or phrase may indicate some subconscious (at least for now) psychic or telepathic connection. The "p e e on it" seems to be that kind of connection-- more than just coincidence.
But there are some common phrases that I think are just used to draw connections between characters, like "Get OVER it!" in Orientation. I don't think we're supposed to infer Helen and Cooper have some kind of telepathic connection. Rather, we're supposed to pick up that there is a connection between them.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
I read that someone suggested looking into the "where" of the "events." A made that suggestions a while ago. To map out where the strange things took place. I'll try to find the exact wording...
Blue, That's just the comment I was remembering when I suggested mapping these out. It had something to do with visions (I think) and she suggested we "make a map," or something to that effect.
And we could look at the content of what was being communicated (and by whom, to whom, etc.) while we're at it. Maybe it'll reveal more about the connections, as well as info about locations.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:16:30)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
chen:I was sold on the idea of a psychic using the antenna and the EM field to do mind control, but you brought up the idea that the mind control could be done through machines, do you remember? Now that I've seen the level of technology in the hatch, and with this synthetic telepathy thing, I think you were right all the way back then!
Chen, YES! I DO remember!! That's RIGHT! And then I THINK (I could be wrong) anni found info detailing how the Montauk folks used (or allegedly used) computers for telepathy and mind control? It seemed like it was something that involved computers and psychics though, I think... but since the "conditions" on the Lost island are unique, the parameters detailed in what anni found might not need to be quite the same.
Blue:ME and or Cac, please send Mme. a hearty "yes!" soon. Let her know she is always welcome here.
Blue - done! See few posts above.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Mme, you dear soul, the answer is YES, YES, YES to posting the questions here, and to post ANYTHING else you want to post here. NO reservations! No fear here!
And you ALWAYS have a home here... there is no question or doubt about that at all.
I'm very sorry if there was any confusion... but I'm so happy you came to clarify. We look forward to the questions!
And thanks for the message you sent earlier for us... and the topic to research. You're the best! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Thank you M&TS!!!! Proud to have you speak for us all (at least the higher primates).
BTW - I seem to be striking out soliciting a translation for Jin's EHH KOREAN dialog....
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Errr.... Sorry guys! I just realized you're talking about something completely different now... didn't mean to interrupt your conversation, but I got excited when inthehaze wrote that about the holographic images!
Eva, that wasn't interrupting at all! It's part of the same topic. I thought the holographic projections were linked to the synthetic telepathy, or part of it, because they both use Maser beams (microwaves) to communicate the information. I definitely think there's a connection!
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:17:51)
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by: EvaNica (172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
I'll be really happy if the questions come back. I really like the questions.
I'm fried tonight, don't have much to contribute, but wanted to stop by since I'm not going to come back until after I've gotten the epi from iTunes.
I'm glad I did, too (stop by), I like this synthetic telepathy clue. Seems just like the kind of thing that was "pseudo science" in the 80's but not so much anymore!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
OK, we thought we misunderstood!
Everyone is doing exactly the right thing, just ignore it.
I have one young lady who, while hurting today for a friend who had his dead mother attacked the other day --- I'm not kidding, his recently deceased mother --- by the problem posters in question, decided to slam back.
She won't do it again.
Please, you all are wonderful. Just ignore the foolishness. It's hard to believe that for some, a TV show is that consuming. The need for an autograph that desperate.
Questions will be up tomorrow, and sorry to make you tell me again!
Class....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Does anyone want to help me make a list of all the visions/hallucinations/obvious communications (like an odd phrase repeated, etc.)? Then I'll go root around in the DVD's & transcripts and try to find the where/when? I'll start but I would love it if anyone wants to pitch in--you guys know the episodes so well.
by: EvaNica (172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
Hey! I just discovered the questions for ...And Found in the FAQ.
ME - did you see that one of the questions was about the Hexagram in Jin's horoscope?? Remember how we were working on that??
This is SWEET, now I have something else to keep me from thinking about the size of Desmond's uniform! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>So excited! Yay!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: avoidnwork (810 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 13, 2005
I don't post over here often, but I had an observation/question. If there was a chip in your tooth, would that be enough metal to make your fillings hurt around a big magnet? Or are chips made of non-metallic materials?
Thanks for keeping it all about Lost.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: EvaNica (172 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2005
I don't post over here often, but I had an observation/question. If there was a chip in your tooth, would that be enough metal to make your fillings hurt around a big magnet? Or are chips made of non-metallic materials?
Good idea!
I think chips are made of silicone.... someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
Oh, wait. Those are computer chips, not microchips. D'oh.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:20:55)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Eva:ME - did you see that one of the questions was about the Hexagram in Jin's horoscope?? Remember how we were working on that??
Um... ah... um... well... um... yeah... I remember. <ME shuffles feet while whistling... looking at non-specific points in the air... slowly backs out of the room> " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: LostDuckie7 (244 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 17, 2005
Good idea!
I think chips are made of silicone.... someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
Oh, wait. Those are computer chips, not microchips. D'oh.
Message was edited by: EvaNica
The computer chips or microchips are the same thing and they're made out of silicon (no e) which is a common element basically found in sand. Silicone is use for other things..." onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> A conductor such as a metal filling, moving in an electromagnetic field or a stationary conductor in a changing electromagnetic field will induce an electrical current in the conductor. That's probally what Desmond was feeling, a little shock.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
I don't post over here often, but I had an observation/question. If there was a chip in your tooth, would that be enough metal to make your fillings hurt around a big magnet? Or are chips made of non-metallic materials?
Thanks for keeping it all about Lost.
A couple links:
Magnetic Resonance Agiography: "The MRA table automatically slides through a hollow, donut-shaped chamber that exposes the patient to a magnetic field and pulses of radiowaves. This exposure is painless but may cause some patients to feel a mild tingling in any dental fillings."
http://cache.technologyreview.com/articles/04/11/demo1104.asp?p=1 Magnetic Brain Imaging: "Before a patient is seated in the MEG unit, every piece of metal on his or her body must be demagnetized. Otherwise, the merest jiggle would break the magnetic calm. MEG technician Nancy Lopez has a handheld demagnetizer for this purpose; its powerful enough to neutralize even a patients dental fillings. "
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:21:24)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
mme:Please, you all are wonderful. Just ignore the foolishness. It's hard to believe that for some, a TV show is that consuming. The need for an autograph that desperate.
Questions will be up tomorrow, and sorry to make you tell me again!
Mme, no apologies necessary. For all you do for us, answering a clarification question for you is the least we can do.
I look forward to the questions!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Sneaker: But there are some common phrases that I think are just used to draw connections between characters, like "Get OVER it!" in Orientation. I don't think we're supposed to infer Helen and Cooper have some kind of telepathic connection. Rather, we're supposed to pick up that there is a connection between them.
Good point! In that instance I think you're right! I guess I'm just thinking that if we're right about this p e e on it thing, then it might shed some light on some (apparently not all " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>) double uses of phrases... then again, maybe not!
ME, that backing out of the room thing was hilarious! I've been paying attention " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
And mme, I'm sure you've seen by now that there was a misunderstanding --- although I'm more than willing to defer to ME and cac, I, for one, am eager for some questions! So thanks in advance!
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:22:23)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Lucky: Does anyone want to help me make a list of all the visions/hallucinations/obvious communications (like an odd phrase repeated, etc.)? Then I'll go root around in the DVD's & transcripts and try to find the where/when? I'll start but I would love it if anyone wants to pitch in--you guys know the episodes so well.
Just off the top of my head, so I'm not sure that this is very accurate: Jack's father in 1.5 (White Rabbit) Claire's dream at the caves in 1.10 (RBA) Locke's dream in 1.19 (DEM) Shannon's "Walt sighting"
maybe "kiddo" used by Jack's dad and Locke, I think, but I don't know the episodes "brother" used a lot recently
Hope this helps a little...
I thought of another possibility... the odd exchange between Walt and Locke in 1.22 (Born to Run) when Walt says "don't open it". That might be both an example of what we are looking for, plus evidence that Walt has had a prior "communication" with someone else (who knows about and has an opinion about the hatch).
Message was edited by: chenmeina to add another to the list
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: avoidnwork (810 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 13, 2005
Thanks Sneaker and others, My second grader's homework took longer than it should have.
I couldn't make the link work but my question was basically answered.
(I'm going to the dentist tomorrow, I'm going to make sure he is not implanting anything - especially not silicone" onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'> )
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:23:48)
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by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Just off the top of my head, so I'm not sure that this is very accurate: Jack's father in 1.5 (White Rabbit) Claire's dream at the caves in 1.10 (RBA) Locke's dream in 1.19 (DEM) Shannon's "Walt sighting"
maybe "kiddo" used by Jack's dad and Locke, I think, but I don't know the episodes "brother" used a lot recently
Hope this helps a little...
I thought of another possibility... the odd exchange between Walt and Locke in 1.22 (Born to Run) when Walt says "don't open it". That might be both an example of what we are looking for, plus evidence that Walt has had a prior "communication" with someone else (who knows about and has an opinion about the hatch).
Message was edited by: chenmeina to add another to the list
Thank you Chen--big help. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Another interesting thing I just found in going through transcripts (and I'm sure that this has been mentioned somewhere) was the conversation between Jack and Locke in White Rabbit after Jack "sees" his father. It's very similar to Jack's conversation with Desmond in the stadium fb. The gist of both is, "what if something weren't impossible."
Locke: ...You're hallucinating. But what if you're not?...But what if everything that happened here happened for a reason? What if this person you're chasing is really here?
Jack: That's impossible.
Locke: Even if it is, let's say it's not.
Jack: Then what happens when I catch him?
Locke: I don't know. But I've looked into the eye of this island. And what I saw was beautiful.
Doesn't that remind you a lot of the conversation Jack and Desmond had about saving Sarah? Just a random side note!
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by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Can we count Boone's vision of Shannon? Or are we content with Locke's explanation?
G-man, I was JUST thinking about this, and I think that in light of the telepathy connection, we probably can count this, even if Boone was drugged. I saw that because we don't know if the drug did it, or if whatever is causing the telepathy (visions, dreams, etc). The drugs might have simply made him even more susceptible to the telepathy, or visions, that are occurring on the island anyway.
Remember how Locke asked him, at the end, "Is that what it made you see?" or "Is that what it let you see?" (I forget the exact phrasing). On one had it seemed like he was talking about the drug, yet... I always thought it seemed like Locke was talking about "the island". I don't think it was "the island", but now I'm thinking it was the drug/EM/microwave/telepathy causing combo.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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by: vimesfan (12 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 02, 2005
Another one that was discussed earlier was the use of "brother" as an expression. While we know it has frequent usage by someone from Scotland, there were others who used it, too. It could be something people pick up by hearing it from others using it, but I don't think every instance that we hear it used can be accounted for by hearing Desmond use it.
Could there be some connection between the use of "brother" even for strangers and the attempt by the DeGroots to establish a utopian society?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: gingerpeachypie (70 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 12, 2005
You know, A has been encouraging us to make maps and timelines, which all might be leading up to the backstory of the Tailies. What if what we see in their experiences mirror the Losties' experiences, even verbatim in some instances? Ooohhh it give me chilly bumps just thinking about the possibilities!
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: abraxas1954 (636 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 05, 2004
Sorry to interrupt....
I have posted Parts 1, 7, 8 and 9 of this thread on the FAQ site, but I still need Parts 2 (Cac sent it once but it won't open for me) through 6 if anyone has them.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:27:35)
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by: what_went_ping (85 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 26, 2005
Okay, this has nothing to do with visions, but I just wanted to get this in before the deluge tomorrow night...
As I promised last week, I did try and figure out some of the constellations in the show, encouraged by A in previous hints. She had said that there had been constellations from both the northern and southern hemispheres. I went through a good portion of season one, and became really disillusioned.
They're cheaters!
Every shot that shows stars has a repetition line about halfway down, and the stars on the bottom half of the screen are just copies of ones farther up. It made it dam# near impossible to figure out any constellations. I'd think I had one, then would realize that half my stars weren't real stars at all, but were copies of ones I was already looking at. Really frustrating.
Also, all of the star maps I have are either "northern hemisphere" or "southern hemisphere," I couldn't find any for the equator. So the directions and seasons here are going to be a bit off.
All that said, I *might* have found Scorpius in the Pilot Pt. 1, but I'm not sure at all, since it was in the bottom half of the screen, and from what I can tell, the time that it's in that orientation in the sky is in the southern hemisphere, to the E, in March? Am I right that their beach faces west? If so, then it probably wasn't Scorpius. We don't think it's March, anyway. In the same shot might be Centaurus, but that one spanned the repetition line, so it's shaky. It's just above Scorpius in March, so if true, still confusing.
Looking at it if they're in the north (still Pilot Pt. 1), that same shot of stars might be Pegasus on the left of the screen and Draco on the right, but I wasn't as sure of those. If they're right, they're in the NW in December. In the fall (when we presume the crash was), they'd be straight overhead, at least on the N. hemisphere maps. If the island's at the equator, I'd expect the constellations to appear even farther to the north, which doesn't seem like the direction they were facing in the shot.
The next star shot I found was in White Rabbit. The closest thing I could find there might have been (left to right) Lyra, Aquila, and Sagittarius. That would be looking at them from the southern hemisphere, but I couldn't quite pinpoint a season based on their orientation. Closest I could come with my maps was facing ENE in June. Also, Cygnus (the Swan!!!) should have been below Lyra, but I didn't really find it there.
That's about as far as I got looking at stars. I admit I didn't get all the way through the DVDs, but I was getting pretty frustrated. I never saw the Southern Cross, never saw Orion, Ursa Major, nothing immediately recognizable.
I did, however, find some interesting information about the constellations that we might be able to use in matching up characters with constellations, as A suggested we could do.
Sagittarius: Half man, half horse centaur, "the Archer" pointing his arrow at Scorpius. The center of the Milky Way is found in this constellation. And check this out?"Sagittarius is nothing less than discovering the meaning of existence, so religion and philosophy play a large part in their lives. New horizons beckon and life is an adventure in which the journey is almost as important as the goal...the Sagittarian character can also be restless and refuse to take responsibility. They may have no time for petty detail, but they can draw on the energy and wisdom of nature and the instincts embodied in their centaur side to aim their arrow at the stars."
Now, I know that A said that Locke was Orion, but that description of Sagittarius seems close, don't you think?
On to Orion to compare:
Orion: "The Hunter," and the celestial equator runs through his belt, the string of pearls. He was a giant so tall that he could wade through any sea with his head above the waters. He was killed by a scorpion's sting.
Locke seems closer to Sagittarius to me.
I won't go on much further with describing different constellations without checking Brax's site to see if I can go back and find out if the thread where you've gone through it all before is on there yet. Besides, this is long enough! I'll post this now, and may add more later if there's anything else interesting to add.
All in all, the "search for stars" was pretty much a bust for me. I'm interested to read the previous threads and see if you found anything I didn't see, or if we saw the same things. Thanks, Brax, for working on getting the previous threads posted!
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Going through transcripts looking for echoed phrases. I think the majority of them will be either epsiode themes (see below) or else character links (like Jack & Christian's BOSOX quote).
Regarding episode themes, I went through the Pilot 1&2 and find an overall theme of "The unknown" which surfaces in the transcript through a frequent barrage of "I don't know" (abbreviated as "idk" in this list; I ignored any "you know" ticks):
"I don't know" in 1.01-1.02: --------------------------------- Claire: idk (to Jack about her contraction intervals) Boone: idk (to Jack about which irrelevant pen is best) Shannon "They know exacty..." regarding Black box (irony is they DON'T know, and neither does she) Jack: "Do you know him?" (to Kate about Marshall) Kate: "How do you know all that?" (to Jack about the transponder) Jack: "I don't know your name." (to Kate) Rose: "Oh, I know..." (to Jack regarding the turbulence?irony is that this turbulence is NOT normal) Redshirt (Hurley?): "...we don't even know...." Charlie: "Yeah, I think I know" (to Kate about his fame- irony is that he is a has been) Kate: "...I just don't know..." (to Charlie about YAE/Driveshaft) Charlie: idk (to Kate about Jack's whereabouts) Charlie: idk (ditto) Kate: "How can you not know?" (to Charlie about Jack's whereabouts) Shannon: "You know what it is?" (to Claire about sex of baby) Hurley: "How do you know how to do all that?" (to Sayid about radio talent) Jack: "I don't know how long..." (to Kate about Marshall's prognosis) Shannon: "You don't know what...." (to Boone) Kate: "I don't know if that's such a good idea." (to Shannon about going hiking) Locke: "Do you want to know a secret?" (to Walt) Hurley: "How do you know..." (to Jack about Marshall's reactions) Sawyer: "How the hell would I know?" (about bear's origin) Kate: "How do you know that?" (to Sawyer about gun/Marshall on plane) Sayid: "I know who you are..." (to Sawyer, that he is the prisoner, Sayid is wrong) Kate: "Does anybody know..." (...how to use a gun?) Sawyer: "I know your type." (to Kate, the best Poker player on the island) Marshall: "I know I sure did." (in FB, about believing Kate's lies: He knows falsehood) Marshall: "I know that's true." (to Kate about her indifference to what he thinks) Sayid: idk (about cause of radio feedback) Sawyer: "Does anyone know..." (....what Sayid means regarding iterations)
Ultimately, Charlie is the one to summarize their ignorance: "Guys, Where are we?"
----------------------- I started on 1.03 - Tabula Rasa and the apparent theme quickly surfaces as trust/lies.
I can keep doing this, but it's going to be potentially redundant and I'm not sure it helps with the artifical telepathy work....
by: The_Original_G_Man (1038 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jun 01, 2005
Regarding episode themes, I went through the Pilot 1&2 and find an overall theme of "The unknown" which surfaces in the transcript through a frequent barrage of "I don't know"
You mean my kids are on the island???
Q: "Who got magic marker on the carpet?" A: "I don't know ..."
Q: "How was school today?" A: "I don't know ..."
Q: "What do you have for homework tonight?" A: "I don't know ..."
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Regarding possible telepathy examples, how about in MOSMOF, when Shannon starts talking about hearing voices, Sayid & Charlie try to quiet her, but Sun chimes in "Did something happen to the raft?" Shannon did say she saw Walt and Sun could extrapolate that into concern about the fate of the rafties.... But Shannon is exposed to some kind of extrodinary communication , and could be participating in some residual telepathy???
What is the consensus about the Whispering? Telepathy? Nearby remote monitoring?
One thing troublesome about the telepathy theory is Charlie. He seems to be clinging to falsehoods lately, like denying the existance of The Others, refusing to consider something happened to the raft. I understand that he has no clear evidence to the contrary, but I think this may tie in both to his personal denial that his Rock God days are over, and the symbolism of the heroin-filled Madonna "false god" he "worships". In his state of denial he cannot hear the true voices trying to talk to him.
FWIW......
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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by: pssrailguy (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
What is the consensus about the Whispering? Telepathy? Nearby remote monitoring?
Not sure about the telepathy, but my thoughts on the whispering are as follows:
As we have seen, both the barefooted "others" (when they walked all creepy like when Jin and Echo were hiding) and Ethan (e.g.; when he was spinning his sling to get Jin) have been able to move quite silently. As I have said before, I believe that there are more than one group of "others" on the island - some mean ones and some potentially nice ones. I believe the whispers are actually the nice others speaking while they are in the direct vicinity of our losties. here's why:
1. The others cannot be found unless they want to be found 2. The translated whispers seem to be seeking help and the speakers do not try to harm the losties (e.g.; "should we tell them", "they could help us", etc.) 3. If i remember correctly, when we hear the whispers, the jungle makes a very similar sound to when Echo hears the others coming 4. there are/were strange experiments occurring on the island. I believe that some of the others are the "escaped" test subjects and that the experiments have somehow altered them so that they can move like they do and also (and this is a big jump) to speak in...backwards whispers...?
Note that I am not including Walt's sightings in this...although his backwards talking does throw a small monkey wrench in my theory.
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Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
brax:I have posted Parts 1, 7, 8 and 9 of this thread on the FAQ site, but I still need Parts 2 (Cac sent it once but it won't open for me) through 6 if anyone has them.
brax, i can email part 2 to you later this afternoon - it's the only one I have. thanks so much for posting this thread on your site!
To others working on the telepathy/vision thing.. I know this has been said before, but I do think we have to be careful not to interpret every phrase parallel as telepathy. As someone else mention, I think much of that is simply a creative writing vehicle to link similar situations, and characters, but not in a telepathy or paranormal sense. I also don't think the FBs/memories have to do with telephathy... but dreams, of course, are different and do seem to fit the telepathy, vision thing.
I know you're just brainstorming here, but reading all your lists... just seems to be getting very broad and overwhelming. I'm not trying to be critical or anything... though a little constructive critical thinking, offered in the most helpfulest of intentions, is never a bad thing, is it? " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>I just want us to be careful to not go overboard, or else we're going to dilute the things that really are most likely telepathy related. Just a thought. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
To others working on the telepathy/vision thing.. I know this has been said before, but I do think we have to be careful not to interpret every phrase parallel as telepathy. As someone else mention, I think much of that is simply a creative writing vehicle to link similar situations, and characters, but not in a telepathy or paranormal sense. I also don't think the FBs/memories have to do with telephathy... but dreams, of course, are different and do seem to fit the telepathy, vision thing.
I know you're just brainstorming here, but reading all your lists... just seems to be getting very broad and overwhelming. I'm not trying to be critical or anything... though a little constructive critical thinking, offered in the most helpfulest of intentions, is never a bad thing, is it? " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>I just want us to be careful to not go overboard, or else we're going to dilute the things that really are most likely telepathy related. Just a thought. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
ME: I pointed out earlier using the "Get over it" and "BOSOX" examples how repeated phrases can simply link characters, not necessarily imply psychic ability.
However, there are some characters, most notably Walt, who demonstrate potential telepathic/telekinetic ability irrespective of the island. But you are correct, the hunt here should focus on the ability of the island (or hatch, or geodome, or magnetic meteorite) to enhance native telepathic ability.
I promise not to mention the "Ghost lady" in Walt's "you're not LOOKING!" FB....
OOpps! too late.... " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
One note about Walt's appearances to Shannon: Since this "communication" seems much more substantial than dreams or drug induced hallucinations, is it reasonable that Walt is trying to use some device that enhances the telepathy? Someone mentioned the use of Masars to deliberately send thoughts into other people's minds. With Walt talking backwards and appearing in "negative" clothes, perhaps he is not using it properly (he might be sneaking his uses and does not know how to use it the best way). And given the possibility of directional Masars, there may be some kind of "mirrors" involved that produce the Reverse effects Shannon sees.
If there is a device nearby that can directly beam thoughts and hallucinations into a person's (or group's) minds-- look out! That potentially underminds many, many hypotheses about what is and what is not so on the island. Is this why the hatch contents (including the mural) seem to change? Is someone manipulating the hatch "vision" in order to sneak messages into the mural? And whenever they sneak a change in, it also slightly changes something else in the hatch? Kind of like (forgive the allusion) in "The Matrix" when Neo sees the "Deja vu kitty"-- whenever a change is made, there are small ripples that affect other things like the phonograph front or location of the lava lamp....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
ME said: I know you're just brainstorming here, but reading all your lists... just seems to be getting very broad and overwhelming.
Sneaker, ME, whoever else is thinking about this right now: I do think that there are going to be some things on the "telepathy list" that we will rule out immediately once we look at them more closely, some things that we will say, "I'm not sure about that", and that's OK, IMO, and I agree with both of you (if I'm understanding correctly) that focusing on the more obvious examples and on the conditions on the island that make this possible is the way to go...
And on that note, almost everything I'm reading about "synthetic telepathy" is talking about electromagnetism too...
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Sneaker: One note about Walt's appearances to Shannon: Since this "communication" seems much more substantial than dreams or drug induced hallucinations, is it reasonable that Walt is trying to use some device that enhances the telepathy?
I think this is a good question --- that's why I was wondering (I think I posted it here yesterday) if Walt is being held in the Dharma para-psychology station...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (62 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
I just had an interesting idea. Let's say that something on the island is responsible for telepathically sharing thoughts between our Losties (e.g. Hurley / Sawyer "p e e on it"). Is it possible that Desmonds snowman joke did not come from something someone said, but instead something someone READ? Can anyone figure out a way to search the books we've seen being read to find that snowman joke? If so, the person that read that book is HIM.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
I'm back again, sorry!
I'm also wondering if/how "they are all special" fits into this synthetic telepathy thing. Could someone refresh my memory on who the "all" refers to? Everyone who survived the 815 crash? Including the Tailies? Or is it more limited (only the main characters)? Or is it more broad (everyone who has ended up on this island)? What did A indicate?
If the "specialness" has to do with "mind powers" (and I know that's an IF) I wonder how it will play into the effects of synthetic telepathy on these characters...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
And again! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
beau: Is it possible that Desmonds snowman joke did not come from something someone said, but instead something someone READ?
Good possibility! I think you're right when you point out that what is being transferred is a mental idea or image, not a vocalized thing...
And back to what you were talking about a few posts ago, ME and Sneaker, there are going to be some things on the list that we are going to hypothesize about and then be kicking ourselves when we are shown the rational non-telepathic explanation! It's just hard to know which things those are " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
And again! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
beau: Is it possible that Desmonds snowman joke did not come from something someone said, but instead something someone READ?
Good possibility! I think you're right when you point out that what is being transferred is a mental idea or image, not a vocalized thing...
And back to what you were talking about a few posts ago, ME and Sneaker, there are going to be some things on the list that we are going to hypothesize about and then be kicking ourselves when we are shown the rational non-telepathic explanation! It's just hard to know which things those are " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Well, to mix some metaphores: You can't make an omelete without breaking a few eggs, and with enough broken eggs, someone's gotta end up with some on their face....
Just keep repeating in your mind: "It's for entertainment purposes only... It's for entertainment purposes only..."
And when the guy in the next cubicle stands up and says: "'It's for entertainment purposes only?' Why is that phrase going through my mind?!?" THEN you know you're onto something....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: dad_of_4_ (2117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
And again! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
beau: Is it possible that Desmonds snowman joke did not come from something someone said, but instead something someone READ?
Good possibility! I think you're right when you point out that what is being transferred is a mental idea or image, not a vocalized thing...
And back to what you were talking about a few posts ago, ME and Sneaker, there are going to be some things on the list that we are going to hypothesize about and then be kicking ourselves when we are shown the rational non-telepathic explanation! It's just hard to know which things those are " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
i've said this before and not sure here though....
you're alone in a bunker....you're sleep deprived as you can only nap in 104 minute intervals.... You are constantly in that state that many of us experience when we hit the snooze button on the alarm clock....Ever notice how you "dream" or pick up on things in that state...like if the TV is on, you think you are dreaming of the news that is on or if you fall asleep to the history channel, you have a dream of a tank, etc...
The mural is Desmond's attempt to decipher the mental images that he is "dreaming" ......or "receiving"...
a hodge podge of elements that he doesn't understand but figures if he puts it where he can see it, then he can figure it out....
My take is that Walt's Wet and Wild visit to shannon was not his first trip....That is how Walt knows about the hatch and the sharks and fear of leaving the island etc......Desmond has images of waves, homes, Sun, corny jokes (like the ones on Michael's cards to Walt) that he doesn't understand but knows that they are from HIM....Him being someone that talks to him in dreams....thus my take WW Walt....
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
i've said this before and not sure here though....
you're alone in a bunker....you're sleep deprived as you can only nap in 104 minute intervals.... You are constantly in that state that many of us experience when we hit the snooze button on the alarm clock....Ever notice how you "dream" or pick up on things in that state...like if the TV is on, you think you are dreaming of the news that is on or if you fall asleep to the history channel, you have a dream of a tank, etc...
The mural is Desmond's attempt to decipher the mental images that he is "dreaming" ......or "receiving"...
a hodge podge of elements that he doesn't understand but figures if he puts it where he can see it, then he can figure it out....
My take is that Walt's Wet and Wild visit to shannon was not his first trip....That is how Walt knows about the hatch and the sharks and fear of leaving the island etc......Desmond has images of waves, homes, Sun, corny jokes (like the ones on Michael's cards to Walt) that he doesn't understand but knows that they are from HIM....Him being someone that talks to him in dreams....thus my take WW Walt....
Dado'4: If those are the images Walt sends to Desmond, what images is Walt getting FROM Desmond? What is so fearful about the hatch that makes him warn Locke about going inside, as well as tell Michael they HAVE to leave on the raft?
If Walt sees info about sharks, and "fear of leaving the island etc." why does he suddenly become all "Yes we do [have to leave the island]...."?
Unless it is Desmond's general feeling of hopelessness that Walt senses, and knows that is NOT something you want to be part of.....
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: dad_of_4_ (2117 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Aug 05, 2005
If Walt sees info about sharks, and "fear of leaving the island etc." why does he suddenly become all "Yes we do [have to leave the island]...."?
Unless it is Desmond's general feeling of hopelessness that Walt senses, and knows that is NOT something you want to be part of.....
Walt comes around to leaving becuase he starts to love Michael...Starts to trust...(like we haven't seen trust issues before right)....
Walt's image of the hatch...the home of a near crazy man that is saving the world...Guns - darkness - fear - hopelessness - Not any place I want to go to soon...
Nor would I wish to disturb....
I'm betting that when Desmond returns that he and Michael will dance and then end up together in a way to find Walt....
Typical Michael - React emotionally and wild, attack Desmond for info, calmed down/beat down/ or restrained. Get the vision (vision quest/perspective). Formulate a strategy that is self serving and independent of the rest of the losties...
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Hi guys--only 8 more hours! A few thoughts before I run out for a while: ME: I agree that we're being a bit over-inclusive with the telepathy, but why not just throw things out there and refine later? I think we all get good ideas from each other. But I think you're right, that the tendency to lump everything together eventually dilutes the original idea.
For example, I tend to think that the whispers are a separate (though related, of course) phenomenon. Like Sneaker said, I see them as some sort of remote viewing, and I think that maybe they're some of the scientists. They seem interested, but not desperate in any way. Also, in my "Synthetic Telepathy for Dummies" crash course yesterday, I understood it as either reading and translating someone's subvocal thoughts, or projecting subvocal thoughts/ideas into someone's mind; I didn't see anything that described conveying and projecting sounds "out there", but it's possible, I'm sure.
I also thought that Shannon's vision of Walt could be an example of them trying out the holography projection, which is another use of the Maser beams. Perhaps it's still something they're experimenting with and a technique that's not completely refined. Maybe there's a "mirroring" element to the projections when they include audio projections, and that's why he's speaking backwards.
Beau: I really like your idea of the snoman riddle tapping into something someone's read. Perect example of subvocal ideas or thoughts being translated. Maybe it was somehting from Walt's comic book, or from one of Michael's letters. Maybe we'll see that Michael knows the answer to the question--I can see it.
In any case, when I get back this afternoon I'll rethink that list I made and refine it. I'm just trying to throw everything out there first, but what I'd really like to do is to start mapping where they happen, and then add day number to each incident so that we can compare instances to the tailies' timeline tonight. If anyone can link anything to a specific day, I'd love to hear it!
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fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Sneaker: I promise not to mention the "Ghost lady" in Walt's "you're not LOOKING!" FB....
To be honest, this is the first I've ever heard of this.
Dad:The mural is Desmond's attempt to decipher the mental images that he is "dreaming" ......or "receiving"...
Dad, I've said the same thing here as well, a couple of times. I'm with ya.
Sneaker: However, there are some characters, most notably Walt, who demonstrate potential telepathic/telekinetic ability irrespective of the island.
Irrespective of the island? Perhaps. I know that one has been debated quite a bit.... so much debate about whether he made the bird crash into the window, or whether he controlled the dice with his mind, and whether he made the bears come, etc... or whether those PHYSICAL events (involving objects, animals, birds)were just a coincidence. But as far as the animals and birds though - what if there's something unique about brain waves... maybe an electrical things... or an EM thing. I'd have to look into it more - that when he gets angry, it revs up a larger wave... or maybe it's some frequency... something audible to animals... that would anger a bear and draw a bird? So, he's not intentionally calling anyone, but something about his body's or brain's electrical make up is drawing them?
chen:If the "specialness" has to do with "mind powers" (and I know that's an IF) I wonder how it will play into the effects of synthetic telepathy on these characters...
chen, I'm pretty sure we talked about this idea quite a bit way back earlier in the year when we were talking about telepathy via computers, didn't we? I think we were trying to decide if they were all psychic, or had some special kind of mind power like that, but I thought A. said something that sort of ruled it out. However, I might be remembering wrong about that last part.
Walt:One note about Walt's appearances to Shannon: Since this "communication" seems much more substantial than dreams or drug induced hallucinations, is it reasonable that Walt is trying to use some device that enhances the telepathy?
I don't think Walt is using any type of device himself, but someone might be using a device on HIM for their own gain. However, remember what Obi-Wan Locke has tought Walt in preparation for his Jedi moment: "Picture it in your mind's eye." Others MAY using some sort of synthetic telepathy device on Walt, either to get or receive information (though I'm not sure to or from who, or what, or why), but Walt is using this to his advantage by not thinking about or envisioning the message THEY want sent, but by picturing his own message in his mind's eye... sending out his own message.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:34:57)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
lucky:ME: I agree that we're being a bit over-inclusive with the telepathy, but why not just throw things out there and refine later? I think we all get good ideas from each other. But I think you're right, that the tendency to lump everything together eventually dilutes the original idea.
Guys, I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble, or tell you what I can't do. To answer your questions about why not just throw things out there and refine later... I guess because then I don't know where you draw the line. You could potentially include the complete transcripts from every epi (this is clearly an exageration, to make a point). I'm not trying to discourage anyone from looking into this... I actually think it's a great idea - but I just want to make sure we don't start thinking just about everything is a telepathy thing, or a DI thing, for that matter.
To answer the question about who all A. said are "special".... I only know she said they are ALL special - but never said if that meant just the original 14 Losties, or if it also meant all the red shirts, or if it meant all the passengers that survived the crash.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
ME, thanks for your quick reply to my question about their "special-ness". My memory on that topic is rather vague...
ME said: I don't think Walt is using any type of device himself, but someone might be using a device on HIM for their own gain. However, remember what Obi-Wan Locke has tought Walt in preparation for his Jedi moment: "Picture it in your mind's eye." Others MAY using some sort of synthetic telepathy device on Walt, either to get or receive information (though I'm not sure to or from who, or what, or why), but Walt is using this to his advantage by not thinking about or envisioning the message THEY want sent, but by picturing his own message in his mind's eye... sending out his own message.
I agree with the first sentence and I like where you took it, your thinking about Locke and Walt...
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: awcovell (109 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 27, 2005
Is it possible that Desmond got at least some of his information from the Whisperers?
A said that Desmond told us all we need to know to figure out who he was hearing from and to pay attention to what he says, not what the Losties say. (Yes, I'm still stuck on this -- heaven help me.)
If Desmond asked Locke "are you him?" that implies that he doesn't know what "him" looks like. Maybe that's because he's heard "him" but not seen "him".
Is this old news? Do I need to get a life? (Yes, I know I do. . . .)
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:35:33)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
brax:I have posted Parts 1, 7, 8 and 9 of this thread on the FAQ site, but I still need Parts 2 (Cac sent it once but it won't open for me) through 6 if anyone has them.
brax, I just sent you Part 2 via go.com.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
covell:A said that Desmond told us all we need to know to figure out who he was hearing from and to pay attention to what he says, not what the Losties say. (Yes, I'm still stuck on this -- heaven help me.)
You know, that's what I had been thinking too, but re-reading A's exact statement/clue about this, she never says we have enough to figure out WHO he is hearing, but HOW he's hearing it.
covell:If Desmond asked Locke "are you him?" that implies that he doesn't know what "him" looks like. Maybe that's because he's heard "him" but not seen "him".
Is this old news?
Well, kinda... but that's ok. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>What I mean is, we've all talked quite a bit about how Desmond doesn't know what "Him" looks like, since he asks Locke if he's him - so he must not really know who he's expecting... what "Him" will look like. He might just mean - are you the guy I keep hearing?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: awcovell (109 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 27, 2005
You know, that's what I had been thinking too, but re-reading A's exact statement/clue about this, she never says we have enough to figure out WHO he is hearing, but HOW he's hearing it.
I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not willing to accept that there's all this telepathy going on -- although I'm willing to accept that there may be some.
I find it more plausible that Desmond's heard the whisperers -- as some of our Losties have -- and that they've been feeding him information -- rather than any telepathy being involved.
That speaks to not only WHO he is hearing but HOW he's hearing it (via whispering).
So far, everything that's been explained to us has been pretty down to earth. That's not to say much has been explained -- but what has been explained has been kind of mundane (as opposed to otherworldly or pseudo-scientific). I expect most will end up being fairly rooted in reality or, at least expanded reality. That would include telepathy, I know, but I can't buy that everyone on the island is telepathic or that the Island somehow makes everyone telepathic. It's just too easy an answer and seems like a cop out.
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
ME: Ghost lady-- might be a better topic left in its own thread (you can search on it FWIW, to save this thread from "It's a TV!, It's a reflection!, It's the Sitter!, There is no TV!" discussion). If it looks to be important, I'll focus attention later on. Some folks (not me) have suggested Walt's power summoned the bird FROM the island. I like the theory he was primed by Locke and has discovered greater power through his new "situation", and he may be doing stuff his new "friends" do not know about (yet).
Yes, better not dilute our telepathy focus here with a multitude of transcript quotes. We won't be able to see the tennis shoes through the jungle....
What about the changing front of the phonograph? I can buy Desmond using the Mural to try to figure out his dreams, except that (correct me if I err):
1. How come other things like the phonograph change as well as the Mural?
2. The last change: The cross hatching over "SICK" occurred AFTER Desmond had taken off (we see it when Hurley brings Rose). Did he come back and update it?
One last item: I did find someone who can translate Jin's Korean, but they do not have a copy of EHH. I'll let you know if they get around to it.
Message was edited by: Sneaker123
Oh boy!! Only 6 hours left!!!!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: pssrailguy (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Typical Michael - React emotionally and wild, attack Desmond for info, calmed down/beat down/ or restrained. Get the vision (vision quest/perspective). Formulate a strategy that is self serving and independent of the rest of the losties...
daddio - you pegged Michael!
I don't think Walt is using any type of device himself, but someone might be using a device on HIM for their own gain.
ME: I like this; and to build on it (first I list some assumptions):
1. No one has ever left the island (I know, here I go again...) 2. When Danielle changed the signal, Dharma believed that the numbers protocol had been compromised and that something catastrophic had happened on the island; this led Dharma to basically 'dis-own" the island. 3. Dharma-sponsored experiments are no longer occurring on the island. 4. The only way to communicate off the island is the radio antenna. However, since the island has been dis-owned, no one is paying attention to the antenna's broadcast anymore.
Now here is my theory... Since Dharma has dis-owned the island, the people on the island have no way of contacting anyone off the island...oh yeah - the people on the island (who took Walt) desperately want off the island. So, using some of the past island experiments, they are taking children and using some "machine" or process on them to generate these "remote" images with the hopes of contacting someone off the island.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:36:51)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: samq79 (22 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Thanks, Bg, I'm going to write those down. Here's all I have so far:
UNUSUAL COMMUNICATIONS/VISIONS
1.4 (Beach) While talking to Rose about accepting Bernard's death, Jack sees his father
1.5 (Beach) Jack sees his father again and discusses its "impossibility" with Locke
1.9 (Jungle) Sayid hears whispers returning from Danielle's bunker
1.10 (Caves) Claire dreams of a bloody crib with an Oceanic mobile; premonition that someone will take her baby.
1.13 (Jungle near hatch: 4 mi. due west of camp) Boone, tied up and "drugged" by Locke, sees a bloody and ultimately dead Shannon
1.16 (Beach) Sawyer's dream of his father killing himself--possibly just a flashback.
1.16 (Jungle near beach) Sawyer hears whispers ("It'll come back around")
1.16 (fb)Sawyer's memory of Jack's father and his Red Sox comment. Interesting note: Christian calls Sawyer "cowboy" in bar.
1.19 (Beach) Locke dreams of the Beechcraft, a bloody Boone, Theresa up and down the stairs, his own mother, and himself in a wheelchair
1.19 (Jungle near Hatch) Locke loses feeling in his leg; Locke and Boone find Beechcraft; Boone fatally injured in Beechcraft
1.24 (Jungle near Hatch) Kate and Locke see black smoke/shadows in jungle
2.1 (Jungle near caves) Shannon sees vision of Walt while looking for Vincent; Shannon also hears whispers
2.1 (Hatch) We see the mural, which describes events on the island
2.1 (Hatch) Jack recognizes Desmond ("You!") as the guy from the stadium
2.3 (Hatch) Desmond asks, "Are you him?" and presents the snowman riddle
2.4 (Hatch) The mural has changed, possibly revealing something changed on the island
2.4 (Hatch) Hurley dreams of Jin and speaking Korean
2.4 (Prison Pit) Jin and Sawyer communicate about the "p e e on it" thing
Just a beginning--more work to do, especially with the whispers
Message was edited by: lucky4me8
Message was edited by: lucky4me8
Lost4: You just made this post that much easier. I was planning on posting the same question and compiled information as soon as I got caught up, but you've saved me a whole chunk of time.
Also, someone asked back in part 9 about the reasoning for 540 days being the amount of time for a residency in the hatch. I've heard some pretty good answers about this, my favorite being the angles of a pentagon(remember the odd pentagon on Walt's life jacket), however, if lost were the real world, it would simply be that someone estimated that 18 months of 30 days equals 540( Technically, if you start January 1, in a non leap year, then 18 months is actually 547 days due to the months with 31 days). Unfortunately for the easy answer, that's rarely the one that Lost picks. The fact that 540 is 5 x 108 is just the kind of stuff the writers of Lost use to torture us.
I had more, but I think George actually ate my brain...going back to lurking before he actually eats something important
Message was edited by: samq79 because I'm an idiot with html
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:37:59)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: pssrailguy (335 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Also, someone asked back in part 9 about the reasoning for 540 days being the amount of time for a residency in the hatch. I've heard some pretty good answers about this, my favorite being the angles of a pentagon(remember the odd pentagon on Walt's life jacket), however, if lost were the real world, it would simply be that someone estimated that 18 months of 30 days equals 540( Technically, if you start January 1, in a non leap year, then 18 months is actually 547 days due to the months with 31 days). Unfortunately for the easy answer, that's rarely the one that Lost picks. The fact that 540 is 5 x 108 is just the kind of stuff the writers of Lost use to torture us.
I have to disagree with this. We are talking about a strange island where Dharma is sponsoring phd-level scientists to conduct various research projects, which, at the time were on the forefront of technology. IMO, with the brain power that went into the Dharma Initiative, there is no way that they would estimate a 540-day shift. I have gone into more detail in my arguements for my theory on previous posts on this thread and I can point you to the pages, if you would like.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
covell:I expect most will end up being fairly rooted in reality or, at least expanded reality. That would include telepathy, I know, but I can't buy that everyone on the island is telepathic or that the Island somehow makes everyone telepathic. It's just too easy an answer and seems like a cop out.
Well, everyone here knows I don't want it to get too sci-fi, which I do think will be a cop out. Cac on the other hand thinks it will be a cop out if they root everything in logical science. So, go figure - you know what they say... can't please everyone! LOL! But, yet, we both love Lost and are huge fans.
Seriously though, if they can explain the telepathy with some scientific explanation - or even pseudo science - such as "synthetic telepathy" - then I think it could be a good answer without it being "too easy" or a cop out. On the other hand, I don't want the whole show to be about synthetic telepathy, and personally, I don't want them ALL to have the exact same "special" thing - and I don't want them all to have some sort of natural psychic ability before reaching the island. It would be more interesting if what makes them each "special" is different for each.
I think what makes Jin special is his hearing... I think music is related to what makes Charlie special...
Sneaker:ME: Ghost lady-- might be a better topic left in its own thread (you can search on it FWIW, to save this thread from "It's a TV!, It's a reflection!, It's the Sitter!, There is no TV!" discussion). If it looks to be important, I'll focus attention later on.
Ah, no, that's ok - some things are best left on other threads. Thanks! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
What about the changing front of the phonograph? I can buy Desmond using the Mural to try to figure out his dreams, except that (correct me if I err):
1. How come other things like the phonograph change as well as the Mural?
I don't know what the phonograph change, or the lamp and dart-board switch-aroos (i've posted theories), or the different mural thing, are about yet, but I don't think it has anything to do with telepathy or hallucinations, etc.
Sneaker:2. The last change: The cross hatching over "SICK" occurred AFTER Desmond had taken off (we see it when Hurley brings Rose). Did he come back and update it?
I don't know who or how that mural is being painted, or how it was updated... if there is only that one painted mural (we were told there were two). I was thinking, as you know, that Desmond received visions via dream, but after he left the hatch, I don't know who would have changed it... unless we were seeing the second mural in EHH.
One thing I did notice about the mural as Locke walks by it in Adrift is that it seems there are vertical lines running down through at least the right half of the mural. If you look at the mural as a whole, especially if you look at that very first shot of the right side of the mural that Locke sees as he's just entering the hatch, and you follow the vertical lines that appear between the slanted lines on the arrow... follow those vertical lines up and down through the painting... you can start seeing how the lines continue below and above the arrow... and are over to the right of the arrow as well. The slanted lines on the point of the arrow are actually vertical on the overall mural, and these lines, if you look carefully, extend down through the mural. The fish to the right of the arrow has vertical lines on it as well, which seem to extend above and below.
I'm not sure what this means, but it's something I just noticed.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:38:32)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: chenmeina (64 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Apr 08, 2005
ME, two points from your last post, I've been thinking the same way on these as you, but I've seen so many different ideas about them --- just wanted to say "I agree!"
I don't know what the phonograph change, or the lamp and dart-board switch-aroos (i've posted theories), or the different mural thing, are about yet, but I don't think it has anything to do with telepathy or hallucinations, etc.
unless we were seeing the second mural in EHH.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
awcovell: As ME said, synthetic telepathy is a real scientific concept. We're talking about a specific procedure that uses Maser beams to interact with and interpret unspoken thoughts and ideas in terms of brain emissions, then translating them into a "language" via computer. So I don't think this is a cop-out at all. It obviously only occurs in specific instances, which we're trying to pinpoint as concretely as we can, and no one believes that it's a diffuse, generalized phenomenon that's happening everywhere on the island. Also, we were given the term synthetic telepathy to research, in connection with the questions "How are certain things being communicated between characters that are not in the same place?" So I definitely don't think it's too "out there" to apply.
ME:I agree that we shouldn't go overboard with over-inclusiveness with all this, but I don't think anyone is doing that, and I certainly don't see posts overflowing with long or irrelevant transcript quotes. I do think we have to carefully tease apart what could be specific instances of synthetic telepathy and its particular techniques, and what is just connectedness between characters or something else entirely. But we were nudged to "make a map" of some of these phenomena and see what might be linked. What we have now is just a beginning--there's a lot there that I think are most likely unrelated dreams or flashbacks, but we can always take things out.
Sneaker: Thinking about Desmond getting information from Walt, I don't think it's necessarily bi-directional, like some firewire connection between two computers. It seems like when they talk about synthetic telepathy and Maser beams transmitting brain signals to a computer, etc. (in what I've read so far, which is not much), it's a one-way process to start off with. Because everything has to be relayed into a computer and translated from electrical signal to words or ideas already associated with them, it seems more likely that it would work one-way at first, with a lot of imperfection.
I'm not sure what to think about the "I'm sick" cross-hatching on the mural, and when it changes. First I thought Desmond did it before he left to signify that he had left (wasn't sick or stuck there anymore). But I don't know when or how this would've happened, as we see him leaving.
Would it work to send your Korean translater a video clip from EHH? I could make one and email it as an attachment, if you think that would work? Let me know!
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:39:49)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: Sneaker123 (1197 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: May 26, 2005
Would it work to send your Korean translater a video clip from EHH? I could make one and email it as an attachment, if you think that would work? Let me know!
I'm willing to try that (you can use my go mail). But I don't know if I can send files to this person-- it's on another web-forum).
I think the "second mural" may be (I admit the remote possiblilty I could be wrong " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>) one possible interpretation of the originAl clue, but my reead on it was that "the mural was not the same [version]" rather than "the mural was not the same [mural]". I though A was pointing out that something was changed in the mural, not that it's different and therefore cannot be the same wall (or hatch, depending on your slant).
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: beau_duke (62 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Oct 07, 2005
I'm not sure what to think about the "I'm sick" cross-hatching on the mural, and when it changes. First I thought Desmond did it before he left to signify that he had left (wasn't sick or stuck there anymore). But I don't know when or how this would've happened, as we see him leaving.
Look at the picture of Looke and Desmond at the bookshelf. Everyone focuses on the geiger counter, but look at the mural behind Looke. It has the cross-hatching. Definatley not changed as Desmond leaves. Is it in the same location as the mural Jack shines his flashlight on?
I had another thought, maybe Desmond plays the music loud in order to drown out the voices he is hearing. Notice when Kate calls to Jack he cannot hear her and he is standing in the dome.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:40:20)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
Look at the picture of Looke and Desmond at the bookshelf. Everyone focuses on the geiger counter, but look at the mural behind Looke. It has the cross-hatching. Definatley not changed as Desmond leaves. Is it in the same location as the mural Jack shines his flashlight on?
Beau- Good catch! I was going to go back and look to see if I could see if it was already changed before Desmond left. but that shot shows that it has changed already (The I'm Sick covered by the new cross-hatches). So that means Desmond could have, and most likely--I can't think offhand of who else would have--did change it before he left.
Sneaker - Will you find out if the Korean guy can receive files? I'll wait to know for sure before I do it--I've never done it but I know I can figure it out. Also, I'd be doing it on my Mac, so maybe you could ask him what kind of format it might have to be in? Thanks--I'll look into how to do it.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
Office stuff is still being one on Bammers because of the wide distribution everything goes through, from secretaries to editing, here to the mainland.
Just wanted to give you guys a bump!
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
lucky:ME:I agree that we shouldn't go overboard with over-inclusiveness with all this, but I don't think anyone is doing that, and I certainly don't see posts overflowing with long or irrelevant transcript quotes.
Holy cow - you guys sure did take my little proactive post to heart, didn't you?
And no, lucky... I don't see any "overflowing with long or irrelevant transcript quotes" either - never said I did.
Really you guys, I'm sorry you didn't understand the point or spirit of my post - if this is what you think I was saying. It really wasn't a big deal - it was simply a suggestion... something to keep in mind. As I said repeatedly already, I think it's great that you're looking into this - so I'm definitely not trying to discourage anyone.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:40:53)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Mac rules, Lucky!
I travel with a G5, and I love it!
Office stuff is still being one on Bammers because of the wide distribution everything goes through, from secretaries to editing, here to the mainland.
Just wanted to give you guys a bump!
Ooo- You have the G5, you lucky stranger, you. I have the G4 and I'm obsessed with it. It's like a little brain. I live near an Apple store and I go over there and malinger all the time, trying to get the Genius Bar guys to chat with me! I don't care if they're nerdy, I think they're the COOLEST.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
lucky: I guess I was a liitle defensive, ME--sorry!!!
No worries. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
So, I'm really puzzled about the mural, or murals now.
Locke arrived before Jack.
In MOS, When Jack looks at the mural, after he enters the hatch, the "pit" says "M SICK".
In Adrift, when Lock looks at the mural, after he enters the hatch, the "pit" says "M SICK"
Locke and/or Jack are with Desmond at all times, so when could Desmond have changed anything on the mural before he left?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
By the way...
Can anyone get a good look at the mural that Locke walks by as he enters into the living quarters... look down below the mural... bottom part of the wall where Locke's legs are. Is there any writing there? Looks like there might be, but I don't have a very clear look at it.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: avoidnwork (810 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 13, 2005
You guys are awesome, working to pass the hours until you have MORE to work with! " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:41:45)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: pau_hana (29 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Mar 28, 2005
Locke and/or Jack are with Desmond at all times, so when could Desmond have changed anything on the mural before he left?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Desmond didn't watch the orientaion film with them. They may have watched it twice. Maybe artistic inspiration struck him as they were watching the movie. I know he was supposed to be hard at work fixing the computer. Would it have taken long to alter the mural? And to what purpose?
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:42:31)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: lucky4me8 (478 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Has anyone posted special recipies or "LOST Snacks" they prepare before a (real) episode? Maybe a good outside topic for NEXT week....
Well, I might just bring out my daughter's big plastic pumpkin full of Halloween candy to have handy. She got a nice assortment this year (239 pieces), so I can pick out some Junior Mints or Sweetarts.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (575 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
I guess I shouldn't have an off-line life. I go away for two days and find that Mme and Mars briefly though we didn't want them to visit anymore. ;-( I'm glad to see that that's been straightened out. Thank you to ME and everyone else who told them "YES!!!" I'm looking forward to reading the questions tonight. Thanks Mme, for everything you do for us. We really do appreciate your help.
Is there any of that banana cake with peanut butter frosting left? I'd love a slice. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I've sent Brax parts 2 & 3, and I hope he'll be able to open them this time. Thanks, ME, for sending him the second one. I'm sending them slowly so as not to overwhelm his mailbox. Sorry this is taking so long. Unfortunately, not everyone speaks Mac and I'm not that good at translating to Big-Brother-speak. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Cool Conversation:
ME: The song was "All I Want is a Cool Conversation". I think the significance is that Rose was humming a song that was in a dream that Hurley had earlier. So, it seems Hurley is connecting with Rose telepathically as well.
Do you have the lyrics? Google is having trouble finding them for me.
Telepathy:
I think in the Montauk readings, we found that synthetic telepathy was the main thing they were doing there. It was involved the day the Beast of the Id was released and the Philadephia Experiment ship arrived. It was these ?incidents' which shut down Montauk.
Sneaker: What is the consensus about the Whispering? Telepathy? Nearby remote monitoring?
I'm not sure there is a consensus, but I think it's telepathy. The Whisperers seem to be having a conversation amongst themselves and Sayid and Sawyer overheard them telepathically. We thought for a long time that Sawyer added "It'll come back around," but A's question about someone trying to contact Shannon made us think the Boone might be trying to tell her to, "Hide, Shannon," from "the other side."
Chen: I'm also wondering if/how "they are all special" fits into this synthetic telepathy thing. Could someone refresh my memory on who the "all" refers to? Everyone who survived the 815 crash? Including the Tailies? Or is it more limited (only the main characters)? Or is it more broad (everyone who has ended up on this island)? What did A indicate?
If the "specialness" has to do with "mind powers" (and I know that's an IF) I wonder how it will play into the effects of synthetic telepathy on these characters...
My memory of this is different to ME's. I thought that all of A's references to them all being special indicated that they all have some special mental power but exactly what they have seems to vary from person to person. I believe that "all" refers to everyone who has landed on the island. I think that the main characters are meant to represent everyone else, so things we find them to have in common can also be generalized to those we know little about yet.
Is it possible that this is one of the criteria for people to survive the trip to the island? Some people on the plane died in the crash and we don't know what made them different. Perhaps it was this "specialness" that ensured the Losties' survival. Some may have been aware of it before and some may not have been, but the island's EM field definitely seems to be enhancing it.
ME: .... so much debate about whether he made the bird crash into the window, or whether he controlled the dice with his mind, and whether he made the bears come, etc... or whether those PHYSICAL events (involving objects, animals, birds)were just a coincidence. But as far as the animals and birds though - what if there's something unique about brain waves...
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:43:03)
maybe an electrical things... or an EM thing. I'd have to look into it more - that when he gets angry, it revs up a larger wave... or maybe it's some frequency... something audible to animals... that would anger a bear and draw a bird? So, he's not intentionally calling anyone, but something about his body's or brain's electrical make up is drawing them?
My theory on this is that when Walt sees something in his mind's eye, animals are also able to see it. Vincent sees the knife being thrown; Mr. Bird sees Ms Bird and tries to fly to her; Island Bear sees Imaginary Bear and thinks he needs to defend his territory. I agree that Walt has no idea that he is doing these things.
There also seems to be an element of manipulating things, like dice. I'm not sure how Walt's doing that with his mind, but he does appear to be doing it. And he does seem to be aware of what he is doing in this way.
The murals:
ME: In MOS, When Jack looks at the mural, after he enters the hatch, the "pit" says "M SICK".
In Adrift, when Lock looks at the mural, after he enters the hatch, the "pit" says "M SICK"
Are you sure about this? I thought that the only time we've seen the first mural (with M SICK) was when Jack looked at it in MOSMOF. All other views have been of the second mural (with cross hatching).
Maybe I'll have to take a look at those scenes again while the rest of you are watching the new episode.
Message was edited by: cac120fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
cac:Are you sure about this? I thought that the only time we've seen the first mural (with M SICK) was when Jack looked at it in MOSMOF.
I'm 100% sure. I downloaded the first 4 epis from iTunes and just looked at that opening of Adrift this evening, and paused on that very first scene of the mural when Locke sees it as he enters the hatch. It definitely says "M Sick" - no cross hatching.
cac:My memory of this is different to ME's. I thought that all of A's references to them all being special indicated that they all have some special mental power but exactly what they have seems to vary from person to person.
Wow - ALL of A's references indicated that they ALL have some special mental power? You're right in that our memory about this is different! I can't say that I remember that ALL of A's references indicating that they WEREN'T all the same, but I thought at least one did. I don't think she ever said 100% sure one way or the other, but I thought that's what she was eluding to. It was a while ago.
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:43:43)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: MEandthesea (1138 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Jan 21, 2005
Cac, you couldn't find it because I had the title off a bit! Sorry about that! But here it is - same song Hurley is listening to in his dream, and Rose is humming while hanging laundry. I posted these lyrics in Part 9 after EHH first aired:
BOYZONE LYRICS
"Good Conversation"
Everybody's so mixed up about love these days And everybody's trying to work it out in different ways I don't really need to know your aspirations What I need from you babe Is good conversation To put my mind at ease An old friend called the other day And wasn't quite sure what to say Didn't seem to know me anymore And I said Don't treat me like I'm someone new I'm still the same one you used to talk to But all I need from you friend Is good conversation Is good conversation To put my mind at ease
Though It seems as if the world has come between us And our lives don't look the same Though in the past you have shared all my happiness Will you be there to share the pain Everyday I'm surrounded by A million voices from the sky And they all have the same thing to say Now what I need is something new Is it something you can do To share in that kind Of good conversation Is good conversation That puts my mind at ease Puts my mind at ease yeah baby (all I need is) (all I) Woah yeah (all I) (all I) (all I need is) Is it my iniagination (all I) And can you see my frustration (all I) I don't need admiration (all I) But I'm trying to be patient What I'm looking for (all I) Is good conversation (all I) (all I need is) Is it imy imagination (all I) Could it be my destination (all I) And what I'm looking for (all I) is good conversation (all I need is) And what i'm asking for (all I) is good conversation (all I) To put my mind at ease
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(Date Posted:11/28/2005 12:44:12)
fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (575 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
cac:My memory of this is different to ME's. I thought that all of A's references to them all being special indicated that they all have some special mental power but exactly what they have seems to vary from person to person.
Wow - ALL of A's references indicated that they ALL have some special mental power? You're right in that our memory about this is different! I can't say that I remember that ALL of A's references indicating that they WEREN'T all the same, but I thought at least one did. I don't think she ever said 100% sure one way or the other, but I thought that's what she was eluding to. It was a while ago.
Maybe it's not so much our memories that differ, but our interpretations. " onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
I think I needed a comma in that sentence. How about:
My memory of this is different to ME's. I thought that all of A's references to them all being special indicated that they all have some special mental power, but exactly what they have seems to vary from person to person.
The first part was my interpretation of what she's said many time: "They're all special." The second is more of an observation, but I agree that she did hint at that at least once.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
by: cac120 (575 Posts in the last 90 days) Registered: Sep 03, 2004
Thanks, ME. I really don't remember reading those before. Maybe my memory is worse than I think it is!
So, I assume Rose is humming this because she's thinking of Bernard, or maybe even trying to communicate with him through music. Hurley 'intercepts' the 'transmission' and hears the music in his dream. This means that the range of telepathy is at least from the beach to the hatch.
These lines in particular stood out to me, and reminded me of the Whispers:
Everyday I'm surrounded by A million voices from the sky
Like the singer, she is separated from her love. Maybe Rose has had more than a 'feeling' that Bernard is alive. Maybe she's 'heard' some of the things he's said.
Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Part 10
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