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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:45:38)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 06:10 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
I guess I'm not seeing Sayid having a watch is indication of him being wealthy or a lot of money. I can't tell that it's such a fancy watch that it yells wealth. It just looks like a sports watch, or yes, maybe a high quality/non cheap watch... but it just seems like a stretch to me to think it's an indication of wealth or money.
Maybe the watches are more of a time reference or clue...
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 06:59 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
This was posted by Adawhen on a thread last night...
Ilove, if it helps, the writers LOVE to redirect your attention. While shouting LOOK OVER HERE with dialog, you need to pay attention to action and so on. You saw something important tonight. During the trek. We'll talk more about it to pass the time for the next SIX WEEKS. But go have a look!
I re-watched the episode tonight and slowed down certain scenes and everything... tried to look in the background, etc... and couldn't find anything. Though i did hear a couple times what sounded like someone screaming, but they had to have heard it too and didn't flinch, so I guess it was just birds.
I did think about that ravine though.. that the bridge went across. The cable went into the ground just before that. So, if they had gone to check out the ravine maybe there would be an entryway to underground caverns... where the cable led to...
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 07:23 PM
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450 Posts
Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
About the cable, think we've got it backwards. The power storage is underground, the cable runs into the ocean because lightening strikes the ocean, conducting the electricity through the cable to a generator or huge bank of batteries where it's stored.
Dang! That almost sounds scientific. LOL
So following the cable into the ocean will lead nowhere.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:46:10)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 08:52 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Rewatching tonight, I took note of Sayid's watch and didn't think it looked particularly expensive, either. ME, you're probably right about them being more of a time reference.
There was a nice transition from the batteries dying last week to Hurley looking for one this week. Michael acted as translator for Jin.
Hurley speaks Spanish. Was the comic book his?
When Hurley stands up as the numbers are announced, the camera is on the floor shooting upwards at him. This is another Citizen Kane shot. In the film, it marked a turning point in Kane's life. I can't remember the details. Can anyone help me here?
Lotto Girl is a messenger. Hurley later delivers the 'hey' message from Danielle to Sayid. Was Lotto Girl also a messenger to Sawyer? Does Sawyer have a message for someone besides Jack?
Hurley faints when he realizes he's won. He also fainted during the marshall's surgery.
Kate & Sun talk about needing time, humiliation, desertion. Has Kate had similar experiences with the man she loved?
Carmen, Diego, Tito. Hugo is a French name. He also doesn't look anything like his family. Although he does bear an uncanny resemblance to Mrs. Sam Toomy.
She lost her leg in a head on collision with a pick up truck. Could Kate's amputee farmer have been driving the other vehicle? Sam killed himself the same way as Sawyer's dad.
The sneaker factory is just in Canada; Calgary wasn't specified, but the town in Aus. sounds a lot like Calgary.
Sayid mentions Ethan's "team." Apparently he remembers Charlie saying "them."
Charlie calls Hurley, "Colonel Kurtz." I haven't seen Apocalypse Now, so I don't know the meaning.
ME talked about Sawyer searching for the childhood he didn't have. That would be another Citizen Kane reference.
Locke looked shocked when Claire said that she had been planning to give up the baby. Finally, something Locke didn't already know. Maybe her birthday is significant because she, or all of them, have reached a milestone.
Last night I said that Hurley had his Tabula Rasa and his Homecoming when Charlie didn't believe he has $156 million. I'd like to change that just to his Tabula Rasa because his Homecoming was when Danielle agreed with him about the numbers being cursed.
Now, I've saved the best 'til last. Sawyer foreshadowed this last week.
There were a couple of things I noticed about the trek which are FULL of symbolism which can only lead us to a . . .
MAJOR CLUE.
One was the bridge which is a symbol of civilization. Again we are being shown the dichotomy of black and white, civilization and savagery, good and evil. Hurley and Charlie crossed the bridge; Jack and Sayid didn't. The bridge broke and they were on opposite SIDES with no middle ground.
The other was the boar. The hide was torn and it was attracting flies. Remember the cover of Lord of the Flies?
The Lord of the Flies is the bloody, severed sow's head that Jack impales on a stake in the forest glade as an offering to the beast. This complicated symbol becomes the most important image in the novel when Simon confronts the sow's head in the glade and it seems to speak to him, telling him that evil lies within every human heart and promising to have some "fun" with him. (This "fun" foreshadows Simon's death in the following chapter.) In this way, the Lord of the Flies becomes both a physical manifestation of the beast, a symbol of the power of evil, and a kind of Satan figure who evokes the beast within each human being. Looking at the novel in the context of biblical parallels, the Lord of the Flies recalls the devil, just as Simon recalls Jesus. In fact, the name "Lord of the Flies" is a literal translation of the name of the biblical name Beelzebub, a powerful demon in hell sometimes thought to be the devil himself.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:46:41)
needcaffeineRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 09:06 PM
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Registered: Jan 04, 2005 11:26 AM
Do you guys think the title Numbers has a double meaning? I am racking my brain trying to figure out what it could be.
Stranger said there was a clue on the french lady's notes, right underneath where the numbers were written. It looks like some arrows or something. She also hinted that it has something to do with Diego. I'm wondering if maybe it had something to do with what the diary writer is saying about what happened in Louisiana. Maybe Diego was there at the time? I'm so completely LOST!!!
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 09:22 PM
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Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
Something I think we are overlooking on the cable is a fact easily overlooked in the age of satellites. The cable is most likely a trans-continental cable that is probably a telecommunications wire of some kind. It doesn't necessarily have to be a power cable, it could be a phone line with fiber-optic lines.
Before we had satellites linking up the world, we had telecommunication cables thousands and thousands of miles long connecting continents. Twenty and thirty years ago, how do you think you made a phone call to Europe? That could be what we are dealing with.
Am I saying it is not a power line? Not at all. Most likely it is a power line. How else would Danielle have a power source in her little bunker?
But let's not be committed to saying that is for sure a power line. If it is a telecommunications cable and not a power line, then that just raises more serious questions.....where is the power coming from?
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 09:36 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Poor Stranger, did you pass by here a little while ago. I think George got your message.
Message was edited by: cac120
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 11:25 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
One's post just got lost too.
Hurley's mom and brother - Where in the World is Carmen San Diego?
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:47:09)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 07:42 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
cac, all I can say is... WOW! hats off to you!
I've been wondering and wondering all these weeks WHO that dang comic book belonged to... who spoke Spanish.. and it smacks me in the face in Numbers and I didn't even make the connection! Duh! HURLEY!
I don't really think Hurley is going to end up being the child of Sam Toomy and his wife... but I agree that they had similar hair and girth. Who knows? You may be right!
Need, I think Poor Stranger said that there are lot of clues in what Danielle said to Hurley during their conversation. She said to pay close attention to what Danielle says. I have to go back and watch that scene again.
Cac, I like all the symbolizm with the bridge and Hurley and Charlie making it across. This indicates that as of the end of Numbers, Charlie and Hurley both have had their Homecoming, while Jack and Sayid both haven't yet. Is it also a clue to who dies? We know from reliable sources it's not going to be Hurley or Charlie, and this supports that.
PoorWayFaringStrangerRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 09:27 PM
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607 Posts
Registered: Feb 28, 2005 01:29 PM
Hey guys!
We cracked the clue from last night! We each sat here with a pile of what they had and we spun it like the Rubik's cube that it is until we got what they wanted us to get! This one is just geeks with nothing to do --- no inside info, but you want me to give you some hints?
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 03, 2005 11:18 PM
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450 Posts
Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
Bridge could also symbolize those who have made/willing to make peace with their past and those who can't let go yet.
I believe in dream interpretation, bridges symbolize change, obstacles and making it across means you've conquered whatever was holding you back subconsciously.
When I did a search on the name Hugo Reyes, early on, I found articles about some student who was kidnapped. It seemed to be prominent in the news at the time. Could that have been where they got the name and is that what happened to our Hurley? Would tie in with the Hurley/Alex supposition.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
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MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 07:46 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
One, I was thinking the same thing about the bridge - read my post I just made on the previous page.
When I did a search on the name Hugo Reyes, early on, I found articles about some student who was kidnapped. It seemed to be prominent in the news at the time. Could that have been where they got the name and is that what happened to our Hurley? Would tie in with the Hurley/Alex supposition.
Wow - VERY interesting!
annipadanniRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 08:00 AM
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266 Posts
Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AM
good morning...
hi stranger...glad to see you again...any new adventures? please share!
i was thinking about the bridge and the cliche's that we hear about them, and what they actually do.
they connect two seperate things
they allow passage from one side to another
they allow things to "rise above" what's below (usually a dangerous or messy or inconvenient thing...ie. water, rocks)
there is often times an almost "scary" feeling or exhileration while crossing over...and an excitement at getting across. most often with foot bridges, but think aobut some of the larger, longer highway bridges. even rickety covered bridges inthe countryside...
foot bridges and rickety ones take courage to take the first step, with confidence building as you get farther along.
in movies and books, the imagery of stopping and looking back being the moment when fear attacks is not LOST on us, i don't think...
the journey over these kinds of bridges is often percarious and scary...shaky and unsteady...must be motivated by something to continue over it. fear? excitement for what lies ahead?
the saying..."build a bridge and get over it" is used in conflict and disagreements. the symbolism of getting over somthing and moving on is not LOST on us either.
the bridge breaking (burning...in a sense)is interesting, dividing them...seeing the "sides" emerge...
any thoughts? would love some hints and clues, stranger!!!!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:48:02)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 08:16 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
the bridge breaking (burning...in a sense)is interesting, dividing them...seeing the "sides" emerge...
morning, anni!
What's interesting is that after Charlie made it over the bridge, after the bridge broke, Jack told them to stay put while he and Sayid made it over and caught up with them. Sawyer didn't feel a need to wait for them or to have Jack and Sayid with them - and said "Screw that!".
Charlie, however, was upset by this and said "Listen to Jack! He said stay put!" Listen to Jack - do what Jack says... dubbed leader. Hurley didn't feel a need to stay put, just because Jack said so. I don't think it was anything against Jack at all - Hurley just felt they could go on ahead without Jack and Sayid.
I guess this just highlighted to me the way many of the castaways really depend on Jack's leadership and advisement, while others aren't as dependent on it... and feel self-dependent enough without Jack.
annipadanniRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 08:14 AM
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266 Posts
Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AM
bump...don't like having to search so hard!!!!
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 09:47 AM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
bump
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 11:04 AM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
About the transmission of the numbers...called my dad, who is heavy into HAM radio stuff, and he said it would be very easy to set up a repeating message. Today computers are used to do it. You can use a tape recorder, a Morse Code key set to repeat and it would be just as easy to change it once the source was found.
Why does Poor tease us so? WAAAAAAAAAAA!!! A little here, a little there...please Poor toss us some bones! ;0)
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:48:39)
Party_of_JackRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 11:11 AM
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159 Posts
Registered: Nov 03, 2004 11:39 AM
sorry...had to post to get rid of the 666 # of posts in this thread...agh!!
annipadanniRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 11:38 AM
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266 Posts
Registered: Jan 17, 2005 08:05 AM
bones! bones! scraps! scraps! poor, have pity on us!
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 11:47 AM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
thanks, Party for ridding us of evil numbers - speaking of numbers! yikes!
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 12:43 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Poor's hints went to the Good Evening thread. I'll summarize and bring them over here. A great time was had by all. Hope it repeats on a nightly loop.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 12:46 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
hi cac,
I did go and through that whole thread. Wow - it made my head hurt, and spin! Can't say I'm thrilled if that's the direction the show is going.
You sure did contribute quite an amazing amount of very high level thinking stuff there - you sound like you know your physics!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:49:08)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 01:18 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
fed, I've wondered about the cable too. Now that we know there's a radio tower, the cable could be attached to it instead of a power source. Danielle still has some sort of power source, but I don't know how likely it is to come from the ocean. I've always heard that you shouldn't mix electricity and water, but maybe water can be a source of electricity.
ME, we probably didn't think that Hurley spoke Spanish because his name is French. I'd actually wondered if he could speak that language and be able to help Shannon with translations.
Interesting that the real Hugo was kidnapped. I still think it's possible that Hurley is Alex. In Wrinkle in Time, they are transported to another planet, but there's no reason why s/he couldn't be transported to another part of this one. -- This statement will make a LOT more sense after you read a summary of last night's treasure hunt.
Crossing the bridge made me think of Michael rescuing Walt from the bear. Michael and Locke crossed a bridge of a tree branch to get to Walt. In that case the three were united in the end. This time we saw a different outcome.
I think the bridge and the boar together narrow the death down to two possibilites. We have previously been told that that one person in some way fascilitates the other's death to cover up a secret that would help them get off the island. Hurley and Charlie are now on the 'stay' side. Sayid and Jack are on the 'leave' side. The chasm between them is unbridgable, so at this time they cannot change 'sides.' In LOTF, seeing the sow's head foreshadowed Simon's death, which it also does here. All four saw it, but the two who crossed the bridge are safe.
There are lots of reasons for and against both Jack and Sayid to be the one, but there are still 4 episodes before the final 2 and 2 of those are about them. Right now, there's too much unknown about Sayid. Why didn't he want to get to the States? Has he changed sides before and might he do it again? Could he secretly already be on the other side? Undoubtedly these issues will be brought up in The Greater Good/Sides. Jack likes to rescue people, so wouldn't it be interesting to watch him deal with having knowingly allowed someone to die? Evidently there's something in his past where Do No Harm was an issue. He's the leader, but in the Biblical 40 days, leaders often only make it so far. As ME said, some still need Jack while others don't. Jack's death was changed from the first episode. Was it merely moved to the end of the season, or do they really want him to stick around for the duration? Sawyer has the message which would save Jack's soul, but will it be delivered so that he can go on in this world or so that he can be content in the next one? Speaking of which, Nadia's picture has returned to Sayid. Are they about to be reunited in the next world?
ME, I don't think I contributed much to the Physics part. I was mostly frantically typing as my friend read her kid lit notes to me. I understand the stuff about the book, but I'm a little fuzzy on the physics. She lent me the book, so I plan to read it as soon as I finish another one that I'm reading for a book club discussion next week.
Actually, I like this direction better than the uranium mining one. That was getting too 'science experiment' for me.
BTW, our discussion began with her telling me about using Tom Sawyer went to his own funeral on the midterm she wrote last night and had already moved on to A Wrinkle in Time a few minutes before I found the Evening thread. Then I made her stay to make me sound smart.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 01:29 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
That is, I'll post a summary of last night's discussion unless someone doesn't want me to.
Everyone remembers we all have ______@go.com email addresses, right?
Message was edited by: cac120
mrsbunsRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 01:49 PM
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943 Posts
Registered: Nov 29, 2004 12:37 PM
Hi all,
Definitely post a summary, if you don't mind. I'd love to hear what "direction the show is going in"...
Also,
Speaking of which, Nadia's picture has returned to Sayid. Are they about to be reunited in the next world?
Uh oh. Hadn't thought of that. Seems like could be a clue...
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:49:32)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 01:56 PM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
mrsbuns... we've speculated on this thread that Nadine might have been on the plane without Sayid realizing... perhaps in the tail section. So, you may be right!
ME, we probably didn't think that Hurley spoke Spanish because his name is French. I'd actually wondered if he could speak that language and be able to help Shannon with translations.
cac, i never knew Hugo was French, so that wouldn't have been a factor for me. What I meant was, after Numbers, when it's clear that Hurley's family is Latino and speak Spanish, I can't believe I didn't think of the comic book.
Of course "Jorge Garcia" is a very Spanish name (Latino, I mean), so that is probably why they gave him a Latino family, I would think?
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:09 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Crossing the bridge made me think of Michael rescuing Walt from the bear. Michael and Locke crossed a bridge of a tree branch to get to Walt. In that case the three were united in the end. This time we saw a different outcome.
But this time, even though they weren't all reunited right away, they were eventually... but they had to find a different route... a different way. Still ended up together, and in the same place.
So many interesting thoughts and clues.
Oh, yes.. that's right cac... you were contributing all the great info about Wrinkle in Time. Are you telling me you have never actually ever read the book? Don't get me wrong - I'm embarassed to say I've never read it either (nor Watership Down - though I think I owned it at one point)... but you sounded like you knew so much about it, and even with your friend's notes - I was thinking you had read it! That's too funny. Well, you had me fooled! :P I appreciate you sharing all that you did - even though I still don't want this to end up bieng some sort of sci fi time portal thing. Man, that would stink.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:18 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
I watched the movie when it was on tv several months ago, but I haven't read the book. I plan to now, though.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:52:24)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:23 PM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Yeah, if even Sawyer's reading it, I really feel like I should too.
He could start his own little island library if he finds any more books. Funny that we don't see anyone else reading except for Sawyer!
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:30 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
That's because Sawyer has all the books. Maybe the missing children are in his stash too.
berbujas2001Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:29 PM
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616 Posts
Registered: Apr 08, 2004 12:12 PM
ohhh you guys HAVE to read the Wrinkle in Time series...they're excellent. Now I'm going to re-read them, as it's been several years since I have. I have to say that I didn't even look at the title of the book Sawyer was reading, just assumed it was still Watership Down. So whose book do you think Wrinkle in Time is? I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so if it's already been answered I apologize. WD was Boone's right?
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:39 PM
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I hadn't even thought about who the book might belong to. You're right, b, there might be some significance to that.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:53:08)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:23 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Yeah, if even Sawyer's reading it, I really feel like I should too.
He could start his own little island library if he finds any more books. Funny that we don't see anyone else reading except for Sawyer!
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:30 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
That's because Sawyer has all the books. Maybe the missing children are in his stash too.
berbujas2001Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:29 PM
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616 Posts
Registered: Apr 08, 2004 12:12 PM
ohhh you guys HAVE to read the Wrinkle in Time series...they're excellent. Now I'm going to re-read them, as it's been several years since I have. I have to say that I didn't even look at the title of the book Sawyer was reading, just assumed it was still Watership Down. So whose book do you think Wrinkle in Time is? I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so if it's already been answered I apologize. WD was Boone's right?
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:39 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
I hadn't even thought about who the book might belong to. You're right, b, there might be some significance to that.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:53:54)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:47 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
I've been wondering who A Wrinkle in Time belonged to, since WD belonged to Bonne... but I have no clue.
I wonder if we'll find out, the same way we found out about WD?
It's not unusual at all to pack a book or two when taking a trip - especially a long trip, like from Austrilia to the US would be - so I wonder what other books we'll see?
By the way, we never saw Sawyer reading "Lord of the Flies", but he definitely made reference to it. It's interesting that Sawyer is the one who made reference to that book, and it's the type of book that fits in with WD and Wrinkle in Time, in terms of books that kids (tweens and teens) would read, or be assigned to read in school, don't you think?
That's because Sawyer has all the books. Maybe the missing children are in his stash too.
That's what I meant about how Sawyer could probably start a library.
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berbujas2001Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 02:53 PM
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My last vacation I packed more books than clothesNot that I needed much, went to a tropical island lol. Still, my suitcase was heavy hehe. I went with my aunt, who loves to read as much as I do and we switched books then left them there, so our bags wouldn't be as heavy on the way home. But I agree that the owner will hopefully become known, and that the book itself will have some significance. I'll read them this weekend and post any new ideas I come up with.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 03:12 PM
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cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 03:41 PM
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Hurley was worried about going crazy because the other posessors of the numbers did. I think that means that he wasn't a patient at the mental hospital and it might also mean that his dad wasn't, either.
Sayid also had the numbers for a while, but hasn't used them (so far as we know). What does that mean for him?
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:54:20)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 03:57 PM
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cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:05 PM
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cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:16 PM
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I found this message that I'd typed but couldn't send when the board broke down a few days ago. I'm not sure whether I sent it later or not. Sorry if this is a double post. Most of it is in reply to what others had said.
I'm still thinking that the animals are attracted by the pictures they can see in Walt's mind. I think the bird in the book was a little different, less colourful, than the one that hit the window. As this is often the case in the bird world, I would imagine that Mr. Bird wasn't exactly looking to defend his territory when he died. Possible explanations of just one: Could the birds be rare? Does his power have a range? If he stopped thinking about the first bird when the second one fell, any others on their way would no longer be able to see it.
I think the boar are still around and Locke and Boone just aren't looking for them. They really must be spending ALL of their time at the hatch because you'd think they could take the occasional break and catch a boar to satisfy the people.
Locke said, "You can't hear everything, Boone. The sooner you learn that the better."
Interesting that uranium came up in your 1942 search. She_lost_colo posted a link to the black rock thread a couple of days ago. I was saving it for the break, but maybe there's something in there. I wonder if they all refer to years? This group arrived in 4, but maybe other groups arrived 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 years ago?
If my guess about Hurley being Alex (Spoiler and Speculation thread) is right, then he'd have been about 8 or 10 when Danielle arrived on the island -- about the age Walt is now AND the age that Jack and Sawyer were in their flashbacks.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:54:44)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:20 PM
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The episodes can be broken up into groups of four with the pilots and finales in pairs.
1.Pilot (1)
2. Pilot (2)
3. Tabula Rasa
4. Walkabout
5. White Rabbit
6. House of the Rising Sun
7. The Moth
8. Confidence Man
9. Solitary
10. Raised by Another
11. All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues
12. Whatever the Case May Be
13. Hearts and Minds
14. Special
15. Homecoming
16. Outlaws
17. ...In Translation
18. Numbers
19. Deux Ex Machina
20. Do No Harm
21. The Greater Good (a.k.a. Sides)
22. Born to Run
23. ?
24. ?
If you think about each set, the title/theme of the first one carries over to the next three. The pilots set things up. The first set of four is largely about fresh starts, the second is about the struggle to overcome something you didn't want in the first place, the third is about relationships, the fourth is about finding peace within yourself. If this continues, I expect the next set will be full of big unbelievable twists. The finales should wrap things up.
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MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:55:15)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:23 PM
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Hurley was worried about going crazy because the other posessors of the numbers did. I think that means that he wasn't a patient at the mental hospital and it might also mean that his dad wasn't, either.
Sayid also had the numbers for a while, but hasn't used them (so far as we know). What does that mean for him?
I still think his dad could have been a patient. The quesiton has been, how did Hurley know Leonard, and why did the doctor asked why Hurley was back. I don't think Hurley was a patient, but do believe he either worked there or his dad was a patient there.
I agree though, that primary root of Hurley's being upset when people called him crazy is because that's what everyone was telling him in reference to his notion that the numbers are cursed, instead of believing him. I'm not even sure it had anything to do with the other three people who had heard the numbers going crazy - but simply being told you are crazy for believing something, instead of being believed yourself.
Lots of great thinking here, cac! All good stuff, whether I agree with you on all of it or not.
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MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:26 PM
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If you think about each set, the title/theme of the first one carries over to the next three.
Wow - great observations! I'm impressed!
slpyRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:31 PM
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Hey cac, you may want to edit last nights conversation out. "They" took that whole thread down. I'd hate to see this one gone too.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:36 PM
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wow, slpy... do you know why they'd do that? does anyone know, or have any ideas?
Thanks so much for letting cac know - i'd hate to lose this whole thread, after all the work we've done!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:55:51)
slpyRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 04:43 PM
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Great thread BTW.
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OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 05:08 PM
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THEY made me do it! ;0)
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cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 05:15 PM
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slpy, have we taken out enough? Should one take out the one she just posted too?
I'd like to be able to put back at least some of the book analysis. If someone could advise me on what may be posted. My go mail address works.
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OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 06:29 PM
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Why do they have to come off the thread?
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 06:32 PM
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The original discussion thread has been removed. Apparantly we said something we weren't supposed to. It might be best if you take out your post until we know what it was we weren't supposed to say.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 06:57:04)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 06:52 PM
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A Wrinkle in Time
Hurley's numbers lead us back to Sawyer's book. Ask Fed to explain how.
"Meg . . . was your mother able to explain a tesseract to you?" (Mrs. Whatsit, p. 76)
The first dimension is a line, the second a square, the third a cube, the fourth time and the fifth a tesseract.
"Well, the fifth dimension's a tesseract. You add that to the other four dimensions and you can travel through space without having to go the long way around. In other words, to put it into Euclid, or old-fashioned plane geometry, a straight line is not the shortest distance between two points." (Mrs. Whatsit, p. 78)
Danielle told Hurley that she changed the message that drew her to the island. She told Sayid that she had killed the rest of her team. Why would she change a message that might draw others to rescue her? Why would she kill those who were monitoring the message? Danielle doesn't want to be rescued. Why not?
She doesn't want to leave Alex behind.
fed:A Wrinkle In Time - The Tesseract
With the help of Mrs.Whatsit, the children are transported to a magical place where they meet Mrs.Who and Mrs.Which. They learn that the Tesseract acts as a gateway to other parts of the universe - a wrinkle in time. Mrs.Whatsit explains that an evil darkness has consumed the planet Camazotz and will soon takeover the earth. With Mrs.Which and the Tesseract guiding them, the children must go to Camazots, find Dr.Murry [their father] and defeat the evil Prime Coordinator - before the darkness takes over the earth and its too late!
Danielle believes that the island has a magical tesseract. She will not leave the island without it.
"Ou est Alex?"
fed:Alex went into the tesseract and is in another dimesion of space time.
PWFS:Fed, is it the hatch? If Alex was put into something, I don't think it could be the hatch. Who sealed it? Mama wouldn't, for fear Alex would not have a way back.
AND, she seems to feel that a group she calls the Others, who are currently in charge of the power source (Solitary) put Alex wherever.
The book, like the author's view of the world, are both technically about interrelationship. Like Lost. And quantum physics. So, if Alex is lost in a wrinkle in time, the person who knows him best has to rescue him.
fed:The manipulation of time and space brought the plane down! This is getting good!
More stuff about A Wrinkle in Time:
The parents are scientists. The father has disappeared. Mother daughter split. Meg must leave home to return home.
They are on circular journeys, especially Meg. She has to find her father. She does and C.W. gets sucked into the Brain.Meg has to become a child again in order to grow. (Sawyer's reading children's books, trying to recapture the childhood he was robbed of.) She realizes she can love and the Brain cannot. Her weaknesses are also her strengths. She is the one who has to save C.W. because she knows him best.
Meg brings the significant male other back to life.
Meg doesn't see that she's there for more reasons than to save her father.
It's all about Daddy Issues!
Meg has yet to accept that which goes against logical understanding.
Outer storms reflect inner storms.
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on." Prospero in the Tempest as quoted by Mrs. Who.
Link between the personal, social, natural and supernatural.
The 6th dimension is creativity.
In a later book, Charles Wallace communicates with his mind, knows how Meg's feeling.
Autumn is a time of change. Wrinkle in Time took place in the Autumn.
Meg feels like an outsider to everything and everyone else. Charles Wallace and Calvin are also misfits.
Vision is a big motif. Eyes. Sight. Insight. Outsight. Magic glasses. Near-sighted (physically & metaphorically). Red eyes when Charles Wallace loses himself. Beasts with no eyes. Inability to see out of the column where her father is being held.
Back to Lost: The monster is something that's grown larger than it's supposed to be.
"It's a frightening as well as an exciting thing to discover that matter and energy are the same thing, that size is an illusion and that time is a material substance." (Dr. Murry in A Wrinkle in Time)
And a little about the White Rabbit:
When Alice went down the rabbit hole, she entered a non-Newtonian universe, which suggests that she's left a world that obeys normal scientific laws and rules.
One last thing:
The montster's a radiated bunny.
Watership Down meets Monty Python.
I'm afraid I was getting a bit tired when I came up with that one.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 07:05 PM
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fed: Alex went into the tesseract and is in another dimesion of space time.
As I read your summary, cac, (i did read the whole thread already), I do see a lot of parallels between the book and Lost... the daddy issues... being about interrelationships, etc. However, in thinking of fed's statement above, the less I think that there actually is a tesseract on Lost... or that Alex went into another dimension of space and time.
Like other clues we've been given (or even references to books like Watership Down), I don't think we're to take the parallel's so literally, but as metaphors. Alex is in another place... but another dimension could
simply mean... underground. Instead of just thinking right or left, east or west or south... think up or down.
Being in another time - could refer to people who have lived on the island or underground for so long, they are trapped in a mental time warp, so to speak. And what I mean is, they are still back in whatever year they were
stranded there - still in the mindset as whenever that was... not caught up to 2004.
I do think there is a lot of strong references and clues... parellels to Wrinkle... but I'm still very hedgy on the tesserat thing. I think that would throw a lot of viewers off. I think think it's a reference or clue to something more obtainable.
I agree that time is a big theme/factor/clue - thus all the watch shots and references.
Thanks for taking the time to compile and share all this cac... LOTS to think about!
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 07:39 PM
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It could be metaphorical, ME. But however it happened, I still believe that Alex was transported back to the real world and the numbers put him on the plane back to the island. S/he's too important not to be on the plane.
Right now, I'm thinking Alex is Hurley, but it could be any of them. If s/he time traveled, Alex could even be older or younger than any child Danielle could possibly have.
OK, let me try to open my brain up and explain the complex things we talked about last night.
Let's start with the numbers. Look at the screen capture of the sequence of numbers from Danielle's papers. There is an equation above the numbers and underneath the numbers are wavy lines going down from the sequence of numbers.
The sequence of numbers are really not that important. The wavy lines underneath imply that something was being done to manipulate the numbers in relation to the equation above it. Something very, very big is trying to be done to the equation and numbers. So big that Danielle has been on the island for 16 years and has no intention of leaving, she hasn't really seemed to try. Think about her words "What if we had been rescued?". She didn't want to go anywhere.
Now look at the hint of A Wrinkle in Time. What transports the characters....a magical tesseract. Google the word tesseract and it will blow your mind. After you are done doing that, google the words magical tesseract and it will really blow your mind. A working magical tesseract combined with a little Einstein could make a lot of freaky stuff happen. Really freaky stuff...but wait...freaky stuff is happeneing on this island!!
The cool thing about all of this is that it is not science fiction. It is theoretical physics. Trying to explain it is serious detail would take college level physics class. Just take my word for it, on paper it can be done.
Danielle is on the island because she sees the opportunity for the theory to leave paper and really happen (maybe it already happened? don't know).
Take the concept of a working magical tesseract (I don't like the word magical, wish it could be replaced with a more practical word, anyway...) and combine it with the Einstein's Theory of Relativity and some of the mysteries of the island could be explained. At least better than my little story!
Einstein came up with some cool stuff about wormholes. The best way to explain this is for you (other than googling Einstein wormhole) is to do a little practical exercise. Take a regular piece of paper, go on, seriously, get a piece of paper....I can wait. While you are doing that I will post this and start typing again.
fedrich519
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 10:37 PM
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You have your piece of paper I hope. Now imagine that the length of the paper represents the flow of space and time. The top corner of the paper represents a billion years ago (or even sixteen years ago) here on one particular area of the earth and the opposite bottom corner of the paper represents present day earth on another, different area of earth, like our little island we all know and love.
Now, take an ink pen and draw a dot somewhere near the top of the page...go on, do it. Now draw another dot somewhere near the bottom.
So now you are looking at a piece of paper with two dots. Imagine that the magical tesseract is able to be constructed, it sucessfully opens a wormhole in the flow of space and time. Now pick up your piece of paper and fold the paper so that the two dots are now on top of each other. The folding of the paper represents what a tesseract would do if it open Einstein's little wormhole. A point of space and time (maybe 16 years ago or longer) and another point of space and time (like present day on our little island) are now touching each other, they exist together at the same time and space and can be crossed over freely from one to the other.
Make sense to anyone? Philadelphia Experiment anyone?
Now think of this...what do you think would happen to the surrounding area around the tesseract if someone tried to open it? Would it disrupt the atmosphere enough for something to fall?
Where is Alex? Why will Danielle not leave the island? Did Alex somehow enter a tesseract and travel to another space and time? Has Danielle driven herself mad trying to open it again? Maybe she came close around a month ago.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:09:37)
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 04, 2005 10:46 PM
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Remember kids, this is speculation.
If this get's deleted, it won't be by me.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 06:06 AM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Great speculation, fed!
berbujas2001Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 06:25 AM
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Registered: Apr 08, 2004 12:12 PM
Holy cow! This thread is awesome. Fed...I've read that explanation somewhere, is it in A Wrinkle in Time? As soon as I'm done reading the board, I'm reading that book again.
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:04 AM
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Berb...the idea of the tesseract is mentioned in A Wrinkle in Time, haven't read the book so I don't know how much of it was explained. The explanation I gave came from my memory and knowledge. I really should give credit to PoorStranger, should have given her the credit in the post. When we talked about the tesseract and the manipulation of the numbers the other night Poor steered me to the ideas. Remember, that entire thread was taken down by the moderators after she emailed them our ideas (mainly her ideas). First they erased her posts, then they eventually took down the entire thread.
Poor said last night if they want to censor us, we should make them work to do it. So enjoy!!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:10:50)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:26 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Ugh. Sounds a lot like the premise behind that cheesy 70's Saturday morning TV series, "Land of the Lost".
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:33 AM
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I don't remember "Land of the Lost." Could you elaborate?
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:50 AM
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Hmmmm.... Land of the Lost... let me see... trying to search bach through the memory vaults to recall the details... 90's... 80's... 70's... ah, there we go. Dusting off the door... trying to find the right key...
There were two kids - Holly and Will, and their Dad (forget his name). Holly was maybe 10, will was a teen.
They were on a camping trip, I think... on a boat, in a stream/river and somehow ended up going right through some sort of time portal... time travel... and ended up back in prehistoric times... dinosaurs, etc. Pre-caveman even. There were some scarry harry man-like creatures... more like ape-men, but less "ape" than Planet of the Apes. One was friendly, named Chaka (or something like that). There were also these scary, evil lizardy looking dudes. There were also these tall, thin-ish pyramid shaped structures (lookied like they were made of concrete) that you had to have certain crystals to open, and then inside if you had the right crystals and placed them on a think in the middle just so, it would maybe open the time portal back up.
So, every show was about hunting/finding food to eat, running from the dinosaurs, staying clear of the lizard dudes, and trying to find a way home via the pyramid structures (which the lizard guys guarded).
It's was all very cheesy in terms of production - yet, I watched. What can they say, it was the 70's, and I was a kid. Oh, but SO frustrating to watch and have them never get home. I always left by thinking "stupid show!"
Oh my word - I just did a web search for "Land of the Lost" and there is actually a Land of the Lost website! Wow - you really CAN find anything on the web.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:11:49)
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:38 AM
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Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
Land of the Lost!!
You know something is really cheesy and bad when you remember being six years old saying "Gee whiz, this show is really corny."
Didn't really think of much about Land of the Lost, similiarities maybe, but they just fell over a waterfall on a raft and ended up in the Land of Lost with dinosaurs, Bigfoot Jr., and the Sleestacks.
Too funny!
Message was edited by: fedrich519
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:40 AM
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Timeline by Michael Crichton is another good one on this subject. Book was great! Understand the movie stunk but, didn't see it.
In Timeline the longer you stayed in the past the more trouble you were in. Time was continuing to move forward in the present and when you came back you were deteriorating spl? A couple of people disentegrated if I remember correctly. There was one dude, however, who got stronger. Ethan perhaps? Been a few years since I read the book so might be a tad off but, very close. ;0)
Personally, this is my idea of heaven, how it exist along side us in another dimension. If the writers believe the same that could be the spiritual tie in. Heaven being just a generic name I use for whatever level comes next.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:57 AM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
One, in Wrinkle, it doesn't matter how long the children stayed away because they came back to the same time it was when they left. I don't know if they aged while they were gone, though.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:26:39)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 08:57 AM
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fed, Sleestaks! That's right! Those are the scary lizard-like dudes!
I know, I was thinking the same thing - would watch the show with my sibs and trash the whole thing about how cheesy it was. We also kept coming up with ways they could get by the Sleestaks to get in the portal thingies to get home. Seemed so easy if they used their heads. Oh, but they never listened to us!
Oh, and the only parallel, fed, is that they went through some sort of time portal that took them back in time... this new terresrat idea and going to a new time dimension made me think of it. When they went over the waterfall in Land of the Lost, you never saw a big hole... just the air got kind of wavy, like you usually see on TV when people are going through any type of portal like that.
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 09:06 AM
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One....I loved the book, I love all of Crichton's books, it is like fiction and education rolled into one. Reading State of Fear right now.
I hated the movie Timeline. They dumbed down the premise of the book and it ruined it for me.
Picard47ATRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 10:54 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 08:30 PM
Wow! That was some really cool stuff about the tesseract. Did the mods really delete the thread? Do they think that will stop us talking about it?
Land of the Lost...don't remember it, must have been before my time, sounds funny.
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 11:34 AM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
fed, I read a review that said it was bad and I didn't want to spoil the book experience. LOL
cac, time in the present, in Timeline, carried on as normal. Time in the past carried on too but something happened in the machine so when they came back to the present their physical bodies were chronologically speeded up, they aged so fast they went poof! or something close to that. ;0)
haven't read Wrinkle. started watchin mini-series but lost interest half way through.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:27:16)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 11:58 AM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Coincidence or Connections?
Hurley speaks Spanish. Was the comic book his?
The Australian woman is an amputee. So was Kate's farmer. Was he driving the pickup she had the head on collision with?
Sam killed himself the same way as Sawyer's dad. Sawyer's parents had enough money that someone wanted to con them out of it. Sawyer and Hurley are also connected through Lotto Girl. Had Sawyer's parents also come into a windfall of money? Were the numbers also the source of that windfall?
Hurley may have been a patient at the mental hospital. Was Jack also a patient in that hospital? If the numbers make their posessor crazy and bring bad luck to everyone around them, does Jack also posess the numbers?
Locke's coworkers nicknamed him 'colonel.' Charlie calls Hurley 'Colonel Kurtz.' Who's seen Apocalypse Now and can explain this reference to me?
Hurley's broker mentioned storms in Florida. Sawyer mentioned the Tampa job.
Hurley owned the box company Locke worked for.
Message was edited by: cac120
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 12:00 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
I have to make a correction to what I said about the boar. It wasn't seen by all of them, only Hurley.
Rather than being specifically copied from LOTF, I guess it just generally predicts a death.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:14 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Sawyer's parents had enough money that someone wanted to con them out of it.
I hadn't even thought of that - that must be true. I didn't get the impression from the scene with Sawyer when he was a boy that they had a lot of money, but I guess there wasn't a lot of info there to judge by.
I wonder what kind of "money" it was - i mean, from a business Sawyer's dad owned, inheritance/family money, gambling wins, etc?
Anyway, yes.. very true... they must have had enough money - and obvious money (in order to be singled out as a mark) - for someone to want to con it out of them.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:27:42)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:20 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
I also thought that Sawyer's room didn't look like a particularly rich child lived there. That's partly why I thought they might have suddenly come into money. It would also be easier for the con man to part them from it if they were less used to investing, etc.
That might also have been why Sawyer was with the Lotto Girl. Trying to find out which winner might be a good mark.
SazygaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:27 PM
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Registered: Oct 03, 2004 11:00 PM
Or, Dad became so enraged over the con that Mom took little Sawyer and left. Dad didn't have a key to the door, she let him him. When Mom put Sawyer under the bed, she said to be quiet and Dad would think he was still at Grandma's. It may have been a newly acquired home. She just got it set up, retrieved her son, then Dad showed up. Since Mom hid him, Dad may have been violent before. If that's true, what she answered the door for is quite beyond me.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:34 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
She may have thought she could calm him down, though if she wanted little Sawyer to hide, she must have really feared he'd hurt Sawyer too - and Sawyer looked deathly scared. She also said to dad "What are you doing here?"
I think others had speculated that he'd perhaps become violent, so she took Sawyer to her parents. Dad got so upset that she did that, that he was violent once again and she pressed charges... landing him in jail.
She thought they were then safe, with him in jail, and knowing she wasn't about to post bail, so she goes and gets Sawyer.
Meanwhile, someone else posts dad's bail, he finds out about the con (maybe from someone while he was in jail, or from whoever bailed him out), and comes home unexpectedly... which is why he didn't have a key (she had the locks changed), and why she yelled "What are you doing here?"
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:38 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Or,
Was Dad in the mental hospital with Lennie?
I know the time and place are off, but there are creative ways around that.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:28:04)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:40 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
There was a line that Hurley's mother was saying to him that I could never make out, and I really wanted to know what it was - it was something to do with something she didn't want him watching anymore. Finally found a transcript from Numbers that's been done, and found out what it was she was saying:
HURLEY: Uno momento, mama. Just checking something out.
(Hurley continues to flip through the channels.)
CARMEN REYES: I hope you're not watching those g-string mujeres again.
HURLEY: Look, ma, we talked about this. You want me living here, you gotta respect my privacy. (beat) And, no, I'm not.
So, it was "g-string mujeres" she didn't want him watching again. I ran "mujeres" through Google's language translation thing, and found out "mujeres" is "women" in Spanish. Sounds like, then, that maybe he had a habit of watching racey tv shows/movies?
While I was looking at the transcript, I noticed this just a couple lines down, which I hadn't picked up on before:
LOTTO OFFICIAL: That's right, Mary Jo, because this is the 16th week without a winner.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 03:54 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
You know what else is wierd about this episode? The Lotto Guy was in surgery with Jack's dad.
Is that just bad guest star casting or should we be wondering how he came down in the world?
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 04:18 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Well, if it IS supposed to be the same guy (not just hte same actor)... then maybe he was implicated in the woman's death... and lost his liscense to practice medicine.
I have a feeling maybe Jack lost his liscense too... since he originally signed the false statement. I remember during the first couple episodes how Jack seemed so reluctant to call himself a doctor - I remember thinking he must have lost his license or something, the way he was acting about being know as a doctor.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:28:35)
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 04:31 PM
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2515 Posts
Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
Just checked over Tabula Rosa. The farmer makes no mention of how he lost his arm. Could be the same car crash.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 04:43 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Our friend hinted that she'd give us hints on connections tonight, but so far all her emmisary has delivered is Diego. I've put all I can think of into the thread of the same name and now I'm stuck.
I think the other doctor was the anestesiologist, so I can see how he might have lost his license as well. We got good close ups of him both times, in fact, I think it might have been the same angle, which would be a hint. I remember thinking the same thing about Jack in the beginning, ME.
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 05:14 PM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
I think Jack voluntarily gave up his liscense. Remember, if he can't save them all he won't save any. ;0)
Are we absolutely sure it WAS Sawyer's father that killed himself? If you blow your head off ya got no face darlin'. Besides, the kid would have been so traumatized he would have probably gone into shock and not remembered correctly what happened anyway.
Was Sawyer put in foster care? Another Locke connection if so.
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 05:25 PM
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Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
bump
silverhalo1217Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:29:06)
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 06:32 PM
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2515 Posts
Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
bump.
needcaffeineRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 06:45 PM
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Registered: Jan 04, 2005 11:26 AM
Hey, I've been thinking. (I know, doesn't happen often - hee hee.) Remember when the purple lady told us that the death was originally slated to happen in Numbers, right before the break? Well, unless they completely rewrote the episode (which is certainly plausable), then the one who died would have to be one of the 4 guys that went on the trek to find Danielle. Now we've been told Charlie and Hurley don't die, so that leaves Sayid and Jack. Since they've obviously rewritten "how" they die, I wonder what the original death scene was supposed to be? The bridge? The explosion?
Do you think this narrows the death down to Jack or Sayid? If the explosion was the original death scene, my bet would be Sayid dies. (In fact, I'd bet you 5 million purgatory dollars!)
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 07:21 PM
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I was thinking the same thing, Need. The main problem with it is that Jack and Sayid are to be the subjects of two of the upcoming episodes. We knew that even when we were told the death was to happen in numbers.
needcaffeineRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 07:30 PM
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Registered: Jan 04, 2005 11:26 AM
Thats what they want us to think!!!!!
They could have changed the death episode a long time ago and just leaked information to make it look like they changed their minds at the last minute. At this point I don't trust them!! But I give them a lot of credit for being clever!!!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:31:40)
she_lost_coloRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 07:30 PM
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Registered: Nov 19, 2004 09:21 PM
This is THE place to come for intelligent conversation. Unfortunately, I have less to offer than most!
Fed - thanks for saving the info from the other night. And understanding most of it enough to explain it to us. I have my cute little paper with two dots and a fold to prove it. lol
Picard - glad to see you visiting! Come back soon.
I copied off the list of episodes broken down into groups of four. Now will have to see if that helps. But LOVED the analysis of first episode, second, etc. Thanks cac!
I almost hate to go back and reread the "Key to Black Rock" thread. It might seem awfully naive compared to what we know now! But it might be fun to see how we have evolved. lol! Something to do when I bored (when will that be???).
Thanks, everyone! Keep it up!
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 07:40 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Are we absolutely sure it WAS Sawyer's father that killed himself? If you blow your head off ya got no face darlin'.
But he'd still have finger prints... which is a lot better way to verify a person is who he/she is than a face.
Seriously though, I think we can, at this point, be pretty sure the guy who killed himself was Sawyer's father. Little Sawyer would not have to necessarily be the one to ID the corpse as his dad... there were grandparents... and I'm sure other people who probably IDed him. Sawyer knew the story - he was told. He knew his mom was definitely shot. The story he knew, that he was told, was that his dad shot his mother and then himself. I'm sure a medical examiner would have helped determine correct ID.
I figured Sawyer's grandparents raised him after that. We've discussed quite a bit that someone else had to have raised Sawyer (yes, foster care would have been a possibility), as we added him to our list of those who were "raised by another".
In addition to Locke, Walt, Shannon, Boone...
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 07:49 PM
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Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
Hey everyone!
Need...I was thinking the same thing as to how it might have gone down. I am thinking maybe the bridge collapsing and Sayid would have fallen to his death. Who knows?
She...I posted the summary here and in a post of its own. If they delete the post, they will have to edit out my post here as well. Glad to give you some homework! LOL. I hope the paper and the dots explain our little chat the other night. That session with the Stranger was one of my favorites so far!!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:32:13)
RainnedropRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 07:45 PM
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Registered: Feb 20, 2005 02:54 PM
Here's a question: Is it possible that Sawyer was going to, at one point, con Hurley, since he does have a connection to lotto girl and she possibly could give him so info. on lotto winner?? just a thought...
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 10:33 PM
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450 Posts
Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
bump
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 05, 2005 10:33 PM
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450 Posts
Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
Bumpity
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 08:14 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
I have a question... and I know this might have been brought up before, but BEFORE we saw Numbers and didn't really have the whole story with the lottery win, but... don't you think SOMEONE else would recognize Hurley as the lottery winner?
If his net worth doubled by the time he talked to his accountant, then his lottery win would be 78 million... which is a LOT of money (though as someone pointed out - still not the highest lottery amount ever won - I think there was a woman who recently won 250 mill in a lottery - unless my memory is completely playing tricks on me). However, it would have still made national news, I bet (they put less significant things on the national news), and would have been a big story in CA.
And though I don't remember everything I see on the national or local news, Hurley IS a memorable character.
I'm sure I would have remembered seeing him on TV if I had seen him, especially related to a big lottery win, and then the fact that his grandpa keeled over during the press conference.
Anyway, just seems like SOMEONE would have recognized him. Then again, sounds like just about all of them had a lot going on in their own lives - dealing with their own "issues" - maybe they weren't paying too much attention to TV or the papers... except for Michael, maybe, who didn't seem to be dealing with too much at the time, until Brian came to see him... and Locke, who had so much "me" time that his best friend seemed to be a phone psychic or phone sex women.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:32:35)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 08:48 AM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
I've been saying the same thing. If Hurley made the news in Korea, it must have been a huge story in the States. Are they all keeping their mouths shut, hoping Hurley will share with them when they get home?
I'm trying to figure out the timeline, too. Hurley started to tell Charlie that it started about a year ago, but was cut off. Was that when he won the lottery? His broker referred to doubling his money in a matter of months. Jin's story seemed to take place in the weeks before the flight, so that's when Hurley was on TV, Would Hurley be getting into his car after receiving the settlement for wrongful arrest?
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 09:05 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
I'm trying to figure out the timeline, too. Hurley started to tell Charlie that it started about a year ago, but was cut off. Was that when he won the lottery? His broker referred to doubling his money in a matter of months.
I forgot that he told Charlie it started about a year ago... but I wonder if he was going to start his story back when he first got the numbers, not when he first won the money. Then when Charlie shared his whole personal skeleton, and prodded Hurley to spill... Hurley just gave him the nutshell version.
I do remember his broker saying that he'd doubled his money in a few months, so that makes it sound like it was just a few months after the lottery win that Hurley went to Australia, got on flight 815, and ended up on Isle de Lost. So, it would have still been relatively fresh news.
Again, Hurley is someone who would have stood out in my mind if I had seen him on the news in relation to a Lottery win - especially if it had been coupled with a grandfather dying on the spot, and/or a false drug arrest.
I always thought the shot of Hurley getting in a car was just about him winning the lottery - perhaps getting in a car after claiming the winning number, and/or picking up the check. I never thought there was anything that indicated that he was on tv for a bad reason - like a crime. Though, I know you and others feel he wouldn't make it on Korean TV if it were just for winning money, but I don't think he'd be on TV just for a false drug arrset either.
fedrichwife519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 11:08 AM
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Registered: Mar 02, 2005 04:43 PM
Hey everyone!
Thinking about the lottery winnings. Hurely most likely would have made the news in his home state, national news maybe. But Hurley would have been in the spotlight for a few days at most and then the world would have moved on. A couple of years ago we had a lottery winner here in the town I live in, he won like $7 million. He made the news later on when he got in trouble with the law and went to jail, got out of jail, and his family had spent all the money. He was on the news quite a bit, but to honest, I couldn't tell you what he looked like or what his name is. I could sit next to him on a plane and wouldn't have any clue if he was the same guy.
Hurley could have been on the news every day for a month and people might not have recognized him. Think about it...how close do we pay attention to the news? The big story of the week is quickly forgotten the next week.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:33:05)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 12:11 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Hurley could have been on the news every day for a month and people might not have recognized him. Think about it...how close do we pay attention to the news? The big story of the week is quickly forgotten the next week.
I agree, in most cases... but what I was saying is that I know for me personally, certain people I see on the news DO stand out in my mind for longer than a few days... and Hurley is probably one that would.. because of his size, his hair, how young he is (never seems like young people win big lotteries), and his grandpa dying right in the middle of a press conference.
My point is that Hurley is someone I'd look at on the news and say, "Now THERE'S a character!" I can only speak for myself. I'd probably have an image of him burned in my memory for at least a year... at least to the point that if I ever saw him again, I'd think "Gosh, you look familiar..."... but maybe that's just me.
But I agree that in general, in most cases, I don't remember big lottery winners.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 04:24 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Yikes! We've all been pretty quiet today. I'm bumping this up so we don't get too LOST!
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:33:27)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 06:24 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
On ABC's official page for Lost, you hear strange sounds, meant to represent the crash, but they aren't actually the sounds of a plane crash. More like music, screaming, electrical noises, waves crashing and swirling whistling wind. Then silence. Then "Guys, where are we?" Finally, the title comes into view, also swirling, dissolving and reappearing.
Hurley rants at Danielle about the monster -- the main thing which defies logic on an island which defies logic. The plane crash also defied logic. Could Danielle's shipwreck have also defied logic? When Alice went down the rabbit hole, she entered a non-Newtonian universe, which suggests that she's left a world that obeys normal scientific laws and rules.
Hurley also mentions again that no one is looking for them. The pilot told Jack the same thing. The pilot knew the most about the crash. In Wrinkle, the children also had a 'pilot' who knew how to travel through the tesseract.
I've said several times that there are clues in Alias. They've said things about planes crashing and people who were assumed dead coming back to life. They even played "You All Everybody." The first two were red herrings, probably done on purpose because the writers knew somebody would be looking for such things. They've probably laughed at us when we've pointed them out on this board as evidence that the plane crash was real. The Driveshaft website, pining for Charlie, is another false lead. The song, however, was a real clue to the two shows existing in the same universe. Alias is set in the real world, the one we know, the one that does not defy Newtonian law. No one in that party scene looked sad. When you hear a song and you know that someone in the band had just died in a plane crash, wouldn't it have some visible effect on you? They don't know the plane crashed. Because it hasn't.
Walt's comic book didn't show a bubble over an island. It showed an invisible island. The only visible part was the black mountain sticking out the top. Danielle said the radio transmitter that brought her to the island is by the black rock. The transmitter is capable of communicating with the outside world.
Danielle's message says she's alone and it implies she's asking someone to come rescue her. Yet she doesn't want to be rescued. The message was for Alex, begging him to come back to her. Since Alex has gone through a tesseract, the transmitter can send messages across time and space.
Danielle asked "Ou est Alex?" but why does she think Sayid might know where Alex is?
Let me quote the description of the children going through their first tesseract:
There was a gust of wind and a great thrust and a sharp shattering as she was shoved through -- what? Then darkness; silence; nothingness. If Calvin was still holding her hand she could not feel it. But this time she was prepared for the sudden and complete dissolution of her body. When she felt the tingling coming back to her fingertips she knew that this journey was almost over and she could feel again the pressure of Calvin's hand about hers.
Without warning, coming as a complete and unexpected shock, she felt a pressure she had never imagined, as though she were being completely flattened out by an enormous steam roller. This was far worse than the nothingness had been; while she was nothing there was no need to breathe, but now her lungs were squeezed together so that although she was dying for want of air there was no way for her lungs to expand and contract, to take in the air that she must have to stay alive. This was completely different from the thinning of the atmosphere when they flew up the mountain and she had had to put the flowers to her face to breathe. She tried to gasp, but a paper doll can't gasp. She thought she was trying to think, but her flattened-out mind was as unable to function as her lungs; her thoughts were squashed along with the rest of her. Her heart tried to beat; it gave a knifelike, sidewise movement, but it could not expand.
But then she seemed to hear a voice, or if not a voice, at least words, words flattened out like printed words on paper, "Oh no! We can't stop here! This is a two-dimensional planet and the children can't manage here!"
She was whizzed into nothingness again, and nothingness was wonderful. She did not mind that she could not feel Calvin's hand, that she could not see or feel or be. The relief from the intolerable pressure was all she needed.
Then the tingling began to come back to her fingers, her toes; she could feel Calvin holding her tightly. Her heart beat regularly; blood coursed through her veins. Whatever had happened, whatever mistake had been made, it was over now. She thought she heard Charles Wallace saying, his words round and full as spoken words ought to be, "Really, Mrs. Which, you might have killed us!"
A Wrinkle in Time p. 79-80
Sound a bit like a plane crash, doesn't it?
In Wrinkle, Meg's journey is so circular that she returns not only to the same place but to the same time. The castaways don't have to get back to Los Angeles; they have to get back to the plane and the moment they tessered out of it.
If Sawyer recognizes things in the book, then he's either the one who knows too much for his own good OR he's intrigued and wants to cover it up OR he puts it into his hoard with everything else that no one knows he has. There was a lot of noise when he was reading, (from what I can tell from how he's holding the book, he's on or very clost to the page I quoted above) so he might not have even noticed anything, which would mean it's in his stash but he doesn't know how important it is, just like that message he has for Jack.
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:33:59)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 06:26 PM
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Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Now, should we move on to Duex ex Machina?
The titles always have both literal and figurative meanings.
Before we see it, figurative is often easier to predict because you analyze the words and wonder what they could possibly mean. Duex ex Machina is a pun on deus ex machina, meaning God from the Machine. It's a literary and theatrical device employed when the plot has moved off course and only the hand of God can bring it back. Some big unbelievable twist is the only way to explain things that defy logic. We've already seen some of these things: the crash, the monster, Locke walking, Charlie's resurrection. What could explain these things? That they've gone through a tesseract into another dimension of time and space.
How will this be revealed to us? Through the literal meaning of Duex ex Machina. Duex is French for two. Danielle is French and she believes that Alex has disappeared into a tesseract. Could the two from the machine be two more people arriving through the tesseract? The little drug plane doesn't look like it's been on the island long. Perhaps it hasn't even arrived yet. Maybe two new people will arrive through the tesseract on the little plane.
How does Boone find the plane? Does it materialize in front of him? Does he learn the secret? Locke knocked him out when he wanted to tell Shannon about the hatch. What would he do if Boone wanted to talk about this?
This theory also explains why the tail section hasn't been found and why Rose believes her husband is still alive. Maybe because the plane is so big, the tesseract wasn't able to put it all back together properly. Maybe part of it was lost in another dimension.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 07:07 PM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
bumping it up
Lost_ElderberryRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
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(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:35:25)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 07:39 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Thank, Elder.
Here's something from another thread, where I followed some of slpy's hints about Hurley's brother's name. It goes along with the above discussions.
Diego Rivera:
Man At The Crossroads, Man Controller of the Universe.
In the painting, the Communists, who are working for the good of the whole, will be saved. The Capitalists, who are working for the good of the individual, will be damned. Man is at a crossroad where he must choose a side.
The castaways are separating into sides. Their choices will determine who will be saved and who will be damned.
The 'propeller' things radiating out from the centre of the painting remind me of the cover of my copy of A Wrinkle In Time. The colours are the same and the forms are similar.
What is the machine in the centre? It bridges past and present, so is it a time machine? Are those two lenses supposed to be focusing light on the centre?
If man has this control over the unverse, might he also be manipulating it?
He was a cubist, but had abandoned that style in favour of the Social Realist style by then. It was less accademic, more folksy, easier for the common man to understand than cubism.
I'm trying to find a way to connect Lenin to Locke, but not having much success. Lenin was a Marxist; Locke a liberal democrat.
Artists do keep coming up, though. Michael, Claire's boyfriend. Is Hurley's brother also an artist? If so, all three are fathers. Walt is a special child, Claire's baby probably will be, but I don't see how Hurley's nephew being special would have anything to do with anything.
I've found a Brazilian artist named Tito. The first subject link on his website is Mujeres -- Women, what Hurley's mom said she hoped he wasn't looking at. There's a Cubist influence but mostly they are reduced to abstract forms. They look sort of like they've been disolved.
Cubism fractures an object so that it can be viewed from multiple perspectives simultaneously. It's like the artist walked around the subject and then put all the views into one painting for us to see it as he did.
http://www.tito-art.com/mujeres/mujeres92.htm
There's also Diego Velazquez, who mostly painted portraits of the Spanish court. His most famous painting is Las Meninas, which is notable for its unusual spatial contruction. The King and Queen stand where we stand, watching their daughter's portrait being painted, and are reflected in a mirror. We are thus drawn into the painting.
All this goes back to what I said about Special being about seeing things in Special ways. Artists, like Michael and Claire's boyfriend, see things in their mind's eye and are able to put it onto canvas. Walt and Charles Wallace see things in their mind's eye and are able to communicate those images to others.
A Wrinkle in Time is about being displaced in time and space. With time travel, the question to ask is not 'Where are you?' but 'When are you?'
I recently read The Time Traveller's Wife where, occasionally, the husband who time travels will be in one place twice, For example, his 5 year old self visits his 30 year old self. This is just like a Cubist painting -- seeing one thing from different angles and across time.
Let's connect this to the idea that Ethan is twins. Maybe he's not. He's just one Ethan from two different times who've ended up in the same place. Or, Ethan from before he died, might travel into episodes which haven't happened yet.
Another example would be Scott showing up at his own funeral.
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Time spent: 13864 hours
(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:35:48)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 07:40 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Vision
This is what was in the kid lit notes about vision in Wrinkle:
Vision is a big motif. Eyes. Sight. Insight. Outsight. Magic glasses. Near-sighted (physically & metaphorically). Red eyes when Charles Wallace loses himself. Beasts with no eyes. Inability to see out of the column where her father is being held.
Another tie between Special and Numbers is that they have the most 'artful' camera angles.
The shot of Michael opening the box of letters shows him from a steep angle, the camera is on the floor. The ceiling has beams which form a halo effect radiating inwards to focus on his head, or maybe his eyes. When Hurley stands up as the numbers are called, the same camera on floor shot is used. This time it's a direct reference to Citizen Kane. That movie is so full of unusual camera work that I remember the shot but not what was happening. I think it was a life-changing moment, having to do with the newpaper becoming successful. The box of letters also reminds us of the penguin/newspaper joke.
And Numbers ends with the 'rosebud' shot of the numbers on the hatch, which I'll explain here again:
In the first scene, Kane drops a snow globe on the floor, says "Rosebud" and dies. No one knows what Rosebud means and the whole movie is a quest to find this. After interviewing everyone he knew and showing his whole life in flashbacks, it's decided that it can't be done.
Then, as his valuable posessions sit boxed up for auction, the valueless ones are burned. As a child's sled is thrown into the furnace, the camera zooms in to reveal the word "Rosebud" as it burns away, lost forever. (This shot is virtually identical to the zoom in on the hatch numbers.)
It represents his childhood. The childhood that was taken away from him when his family gained money and he was sent off to the opportunities of a good education and a lifetime of wealth and power. A life that was ultimately meaningless because no matter how hard he tried to buy happiness, he could never achieve it because it was lost with his childhood.
fedrich519Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 06, 2005 07:47 PM
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2515 Posts
Registered: Oct 13, 2004 06:15 PM
Great stuff!
Bump!
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Born to Run
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 07:13 AM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Born to Run
Presumed meaning: Kate is on the run from the law again.
Are the others running from something in their pasts?
Jack - wants to be less like his father.
Locke
Kate - running from the law
Sawyer
Hurley - trying to distance himself from the numbers
Sayid
Charlie - trying to overcome his addiction
Michael
Walt
Sun - her father
Jin - Sun's father
Boone - his addiction to Shannon
Shannon
Claire
Danielle - moved her home so Sayid wouldn't find her. Afraid of the Others. Can't leave the island until she finds Alex.
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From: USA
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Time spent: 13864 hours
(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:36:18)
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Episode 23 fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 08:10 AM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Setting it up so it's on the same page.
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Episode 24
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 08:11 AM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Again, setting it up so it's on the same page.
mrsbunsRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? -- Episode 24
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 09:35 AM
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943 Posts
Registered: Nov 29, 2004 12:37 PM
Still going strong with this thread...
My mind is reeling with all the Wrinkle in Time stuff! It was one of my favorite books of all time, must now dig out my old copy from my basement and refresh! Wow, it's a theory that actually makes sense, and all the interconnectedness makes sense, two Ethans, Rose's husband, past & present & future, Alex, Danielle, ALL OF IT!!! It all could work...
Makes me absolutely want to DIE instead of waiting so long for the finale episode, when they apparently go back aboard the plane...
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 12:27 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Hey, we have a new title to discuss.
What are they all Born to Run from?
OneisLostRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 12:42 PM
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450 Posts
Registered: Nov 21, 2004 08:52 AM
I am so excited about this Wrinkle in Time scenerio!
We're watching our Losties travel down the road to recovery and peace with the past. Why I'm excited is, once they've made peace and put it all behind them, will they be given the choice to go back and change things? That old black/white/choices thing again. ;0)
I think that would be awesome. To see who chooses to go back and who doesn't.
If the production stays tight and the writers don't burn out, this show could be on for a long time and remain fresh. That would be very cool, indeed.
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From: USA
Registered:05/28/2005
Time spent: 13864 hours
(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:36:48)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 01:42 PM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Born to Run
Locke - running from his limitations, or the limitation placed on him by society, ney-sayers, negative energy (from the people around him), isolation (which is ironic, since it seems being on an island like that with strangers would be even more isolating, but it's all a matter of perspective). And of course, the epi title "Born to Run" is ironic with Locke, since before the crash he wasn't able to run at all... and now can run as much as he wants.
Hurley - ultimately I think he's trying to distance himself from the "bad luck" or "curse" that he believes the numbers brought him. It may seem like it's the numbers he's distancing himself from - but he's running from the curse/bad luck... and whatever is causing it. Ever since he won the money, he's believed he's been cursed - he just transferred that belief from beliving the money to be the cause, to believing the numbers were the cause of the curse.
Boone - Running from expectations... his mother's, Shannon's... Do you think he WANTED to work for his mother's bridal company? He's doing what mommy expects of him. Flying around the world to bail Shannon out of another abuse situation (so he thought) - meeting sis's expectations. Sadly, he's now spending every waking moment trying to live up to Locke's expectations too. I know it seems like Locke is trying to "help" Boone "grow", but in many ways, Locke is clearly using Boone... and Boone is so eager to please and be validated, just like he did with mom and step-sis, and probably wanted from absent pop, that he's fallen face first into the very thing he's been running from. Just went from trying to live up to one person's expectations to another's.
By the way, regarding Hurley - I think there is probably something even deeper that he's running from... the real root of his story... which we probably haven't even begun to realize yet. We've only seen one chapter of his backstory... the others will reveal a lot more. Then we'll learn a lot more about what he's running from.
Message was edited by: MEandthesea
Message was edited by: MEandthesea
cac120Re: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 01:58 PM
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1536 Posts
Registered: Sep 03, 2004 06:39 PM
Wow! Mind if I use those in the summary?
More please.
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections?
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 02:18 PM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
cac, of course! please feel free to add to summary.
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From: USA
Registered:05/28/2005
Time spent: 13864 hours
(Date Posted:11/03/2005 07:37:19)
MEandtheseaRe: Are Episode Titles Clues to Past Connections? fficeffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
Posted: Mar 07, 2005 02:45 PM
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1393 Posts
Registered: Jan 21, 2005 10:51 AM
Born to Run
Jack - running away from responsibility... the responsibilities placed upon him by others, as well as (and especially) the unrealistic, larger-than-life burden of responsibility he places upon himself. But again, on Isle de Lost, he has found himself smack dab in the middle of the very thing he was running from - everyone places a huge amount of responsibility on Jack... as healer, decision maker, counselor, savior, leader...
Kate - I still don't feel like I know enough about Kate and her "story" to tell... even after two back stories (both focused on a similar time in her life - robbing the bank, and running from the law) - I think the third chapter in her FB trilogy will be an important piece of the Kate puzzle. We know she can shoot a gun and is capable of wounding someone with it... for a toy plane, but she also intentionally shot to wound, not to kill. she also pulled the farmer from his truck, rather than letting him die - even though it meant her capture. And in the plane, when the marshall was knocked out as the plane started to fall apart - she tried to put his oxygen mask on him. She is not a bad person at heart - and she has heart.
Right now - my feeling (and guess) is that Kate is running from the truth. I don't
ffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>